Are Vultures not as good any more?

scorpyon

scorpyon
In another thread, when mentioning about taking out a Clipper with a Vulture, a couple of people appeared to scoff.
This confuses me since I have never had problems killing Clippers before when in a Vulture.
In fact, they were possibly the easiest targets I found (barring dropships).

But admittedly, this was pre-1.3 (when I was last playing).

So it got me wondering - have the Vultures had a nerf that I may have missed?
I haven't had a chance to try one out against a Clipper yet this week as I've not seen one when in my Vulture.

Just curious really. If the Vulture (which (back then) was always one of the best combat vessels in the game barring perhaps the FDL has had a substantial downgrade, then maybe it's time to start aiming for a better ship now.
I dunno... :D
 

Morbad

Morbad
People scoff at the idea of a Vulture going against a Clipper because the Clipper pilot will just leave if you turn out to be a threat. A Clipper can also reverse at about 350 m/s if you know what you're doing in it. The Vulture is one of the slower viable PvP combat ships, and the Clipper one of the fastest.

A good pilot in a Clipper is also a grave threat to a Vulture, especially if the Vulture doesn't have a lot of chaff. I can usually drive off most Clipper pilots when I'm in a Vulture, but I have to be very careful to mange my chaff and not get rammed. I usually disengage <No need for comments like that.>
 
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Vasious

Vasious
Why do, when ever people debate which ship is better than which other ship, the first assumption people who read the debate make is a nerf

Person A: Ship X is better than ship Y
Person B: No Ship Y is better than ship X

Person C: really have they nerfed ship X?

Could just be a pros and cons debate on a forum
 

scorpyon

scorpyon
Ahh - if it's the running away thing, then yeah, fair enough.
I usually carry a wake scanner and interdictor, so I chase them around a bit until they get frustrated and turn and fight.
That's when the ball ends up in your court. :)

Was worried that maybe something had been done to the Vulture.
Usually in CQC, you can just hug it's backside since the turn-rate on the Clipper is so abysmal and the hardpoints are in a very awkward place.

If it gets you in direct sights tho.... that tends to go badly... :)
 

scorpyon

scorpyon
Vasious said:
Why do, when ever people debate which ship is better than which other ship, the first assumption people who read the debate make is a nerf

Person A: Ship X is better than ship Y
Person B: No Ship Y is better than ship X

Person C: really have they nerfed ship X?

Could just be a pros and cons debate on a forum
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you (and I've said the same before myself).
But my query was based on the sheer scoffing nature of the replies which raised eyebrows in my mind - since a Clipper has never raised much of a threat before.
Maybe a better question then would be to have asked - Did they uber-buff the Clipper?
 

quickr

quickr
scorpyon said:
Ahh - if it's the running away thing, then yeah, fair enough.
I usually carry a wake scanner and interdictor, so I chase them around a bit until they get frustrated and turn and fight.
That's when the ball ends up in your court. :)
Click to expand...

Once I managed to pull out clipper from supercruse 4 times in a row. He ran away every single time. I had to give up chasing him :p Those things are just too fast and if doesn't want to fight there is nothing you can do about it, he'll just ran off.
 

scorpyon

scorpyon
Morbad said:
Not if the Clipper pilot has any clue how to fly his or her ship.



Neither ship has been buffed or nerfed.
Click to expand...

Yup yup! No harm in asking though. I've been away for a couple of months and wh knows what FD may have done in that time. Heheh!
We all remember the infamous Python-nerfage of 2015...!
:D
 

Jesse Blue

Jesse Blue
scorpyon said:
Usually in CQC, you can just hug it's backside since the turn-rate on the Clipper is so abysmal and the hardpoints are in a very awkward place.
Click to expand...
And that's why you'll get your ass handed if you face a human Clipper.

Don't compare NPC clippers with human piloted ones. NPC clippers are terrible at piloting, and are bad equipped. They are easy prey.

The Clipper turn rate isn't abysmal as you wrongly think, more on the contrary, it has faster turn rate than any of the 'big ships' and also most of the 'small' ones. If you feel that you can easily out-turn a clipper, your are for a nasty surprise. That thing is capable of keeping on its sights practically everything but the most FAOFF daring pilots. Its low maneuverability rating comes from its below average vertical and horizontal thrusters, which gives it a lot of drift on high speed maneuvers, but drifting a lot doesn't mean that it won't be facing at you while doing so.

Also the clipper has the powerplant and enough internals to double (or triple) your SCB capacity, and then, some spare room to put even more internals.

In fact, if not for the 'awkward hardpoints' you would not even have a fighting chance in your vulture. Tons of chaff may prevent it from converging all of its weapons on you, which may give you time to inflict some hurt. But also take note that this very 'awkward' placement allows it to fire BACKWARDS, if equipped with turrets.
 

scorpyon

scorpyon
Jesse Blue said:
And that's why you'll get your ass handed if you face a human Clipper.

Don't compare NPC clippers with human piloted ones. NPC clippers are terrible at piloting, and are bad equipped. They are easy prey.

The Clipper turn rate isn't abysmal as you wrongly think, more on the contrary, it has faster turn rate than any of the 'big ships' and also most of the 'small' ones. If you feel that you can easily out-turn a clipper, your are for a nasty surprise. That thing is capable of keeping on its sights practically everything but the most FAOFF daring pilots. Its low maneuverability rating comes from its below average vertical and horizontal thrusters, which gives it a lot of drift on high speed maneuvers, but drifting a lot doesn't mean that it won't be facing at you while doing so.

Also the clipper has the powerplant and enough internals to double (or triple) your SCB capacity, and then, some spare room to put even more internals.

In fact, if not for the 'awkward hardpoints' you would not even have a fighting chance in your vulture. Tons of chaff may prevent it from converging all of its weapons on you, which may give you time to inflict some hurt. But also take note that this very 'awkward' placement allows it to fire BACKWARDS, if equipped with turrets.
Click to expand...

I would agree that turrets are potentially the most problematic thing to face on a Clipper.
(I guess the same as any large and slow moving ships, really)
But that leads me on to another interesting question.
Previously I had always found that you could take the brunt of the initial fire from turrets which would hit hard but not too problematically, but then the problem with the turrets is that their accuracy would drift off you very quickly, meaning the Clipper had to veer away to "reset" the targetting.
Maybe this has now been changed? Is turret targetting fixed now?

I'm not sure I agree that a Clipper can out-turn a vulture though - even with A-grade thrusters.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I've tried them on mine and the turning rate is still very slow in comparison (for me).
 

Morbad

Morbad
scorpyon said:
Maybe this has now been changed? Is turret targetting fixed now?
Click to expand...

Turrets have been fixed. However, they are now vulnerable to chaff, as originally intended.

scorpyon said:
I'm not sure I agree that a Clipper can out-turn a vulture though - even with A-grade thrusters.
Click to expand...

No one is saying they can.

However, the Clipper's pitch rate is very good, and you won't stay out of it's firing solution for long, in any ship.
 

scorpyon

scorpyon
Ah well then turrets are going to be problematic but in a gd way. Been looking foreard to them being fixed as have always wanted to use them properly. Gonna get them for my clipper finally. Woot!

I'm looking forward to seeing how they now fight against my Vulture now too since it always felt like the Vulture had a strong edge against them. Maybe they are now much more balanced which is always a good thing. I enjoy a good challenge! :D
 

{SAS}Stalker

{SAS}Stalker
I think the vulture carried a volume of wow factor when it was first released but over time its as it nuance's have been learned it has become a more familiar advisory. Thats not to say its not a good ship anymore, just that it doesnt strike the same feeling of caution as it originally did. IMHO though its of of the most successfully balanced ships in-game, backed up by the fact its not changed since it was released and a high percentage of people who have used it at length wouldn't change it.
 
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