Aren't those nerfs to mining too much than promised?

[Pug]

ANNOUNCEMENT - Game Balancing

Greetings Commanders! Game balance has been at the heart of many discussions around Elite Dangerous, for a long time, and rightly so. At its core, Elite Dangerous is about blazing your own trail and we want all Commanders to feel fairly rewarded for whichever path they choose. To this end, we...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I know it's not a definite promise but isn't prices nowadays too far away from this maximum price?

For example, to reach 1.3M VO at commonly highest price 500K needs double buffing, not to mention this is already in good states.
So I just did a simple math with the highest price in Stopover system.

487,977 is what we get after investment(1.5x), civil liberty(1.5x) and public holiday(unknown).
(According to https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/effects/c/256)
So with assumingly the best states together, pirate attack(1.94x) and those two above, we still get 800-1000K only.
There is still 300K distance from the expected price.

So I wonder whether FD is going to mend this gap or just leave it be.
As I see, to get a Pirate Attack is not so reliable so it's already hard enough to reach a competitive price level.

Sorry bud, Again

this maximum price?

What maximum price? that was ages ago the fun (for you) is over, time to find another fun credit grind.

Having said that I'm off to see how the PWA is now, not tried it since the fix, I hope it is less irritating now as mining is ok for an hour here and there.
1) Don't care about the credit result, but I'm not doing it for Nothing.
2) I am more interested in the Usability.
3) I don't like flying FA off in Reverse
Pug

 

[GroG79]

Well I read it as they were happy with LTD prices. Not that the max ltd price should be 1.3 mil as the LTD price regularly dropped below 1 mil. Painite is 'nerfed' but I can accept this role play.. I think we mined enough for prices to stay down for a while. We really broke the market. Perhaps prices will raise over time.

 

[Stone Smith]

Sorry bud, Again


What maximum price? that was ages ago the fun (for you) is over, time to find another fun credit grind.

Having said that I'm off to see how the PWA is now, not tried it since the fix, I hope it is less irritating now as mining is ok for an hour here and there.
1) Don't care about the credit result, but I'm not doing it for Nothing.
2) I am more interested in the Usability.
3) I don't like flying FA off in Reverse
Pug

Nope, I am not looking for credit runs neither. It would simply ruins the game unless needed so urgently that one would like this sacrifice.

I am here simply to discuss whether it's possible to reach it in this version of the game.
Is there some mechanics we've missed or is it things not going their ways?

I am curious firstly because it's a BGS thing, if there is something to buff the price that we don't know now, I would like to follow any news;
Secondly, I would really love to store VO in my FC and sell it at its best. And no other mineral can replace my old friend that I spent my mining career with. But surely I can do it anytime, so it's listed second.

 

[Stone Smith]

Well I read it as they were happy with LTD prices. Not that the max ltd price should be 1.3 mil as the LTD price regularly dropped below 1 mil. Painite is 'nerfed' but I can accept this role play.. I think we mined enough for prices to stay down for a while. We really broke the market. Perhaps prices will raise over time.

Surely the rebalance is long-deserved. And I am happy with core mining come back as fixed now.
But it's not about money making.
First, I want to know about the mechanics, so I questioned whether it's possible to get that high.
Second, I want to know what to mine now to tell my fellow new players if they want to try out mining to get rich.
So I asked those questions. And the second one has been solved.

 

[Ferry_25]

I have done a core mining session yesterday. Though I must still sell the yield I must admit I was pleasantly surprised. The PWA seems to function for 99%. Only glitch I saw was a 0,5 second glow once in a while. But if I pinged right after that it functioned normally. Furthermore the number of cores I found were satisfying to me. Yes it's still a patience game but I don't mind that at all.
It might have been a "bad luck" case but I found way more non-alexandrite in the alexandrite hotspot than alexandrite cores. Not to complain though. Void opals, diamonds and even bromelite aren't worthless.
When I'll log in I'm going to move the minerals to the markets. I still think the nerfhammer on the prizes suck.

 

[Stone Smith]

You can get unusual state combinations that give prices that don't initially seem plausible - Ceramic Composites are a good example: the current top price is 26k per tonne in Eurybia, which relies on a 3-state combination which is very difficult to achieve in normal circumstances [1] ... and without that, you get the 5k and 10k prices that the other top stations have.

So it's not completely impossible that there's some obscure combination which would push them that high ... that said, while the Ceramic Composites one would look unbelievably large compared with normal pricing if you didn't know about Eurybia, I don't think there's the components from a standard BGS state set up to make 1.3M Opals, even by combining multiple unusual states.

But... there are other ways it could be done, it doesn't just have to be the current BGS states:
1) Trade/mining CGs significantly boost the prices of the collected goods, and also force demand to a fixed 999,999 - that combined with a favourable state might easily reach 1.3M. We've never had a core mining CG before, so now the PWA is repaired they might go for one.
2) There are 6 BGS states that we're told exist but haven't yet been activated ... and one (Incursion) which we know exists but hasn't been used for a long time. So they might have the effects on them, when they appear.
3) Rackham's Peak has anomalously high prices for certain trade goods (alcohols) which outdo by a factor of 4 the already substantial price effect of Public Holiday. It's not a BGS-locked system either, so the effects could be stacked to give prices of >250k/tonne for Wine if they got a Public Holiday up there too. Now they've demonstrated the option to do this, it might happen for other commodities too.

Certainly it's not going to be like the old "well, there'll be a combination somewhere in the bubble" approach, though.

[1] I was actually surprised to see anywhere in the bubble had it when I checked now - there usually isn't.

So I did a reverse math, so to reach that high, it needs a 265K default price. That's a bit high for the avg. price.
I guess FD means such a station to get Pirate Attack, Boom(or Investment) and civil liberty which rely on luck for Pirate Attack.
And that could be a cause to this.

 

[Oytis57]

Get out of the mining loop,it's sad.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

So I did a reverse math, so to reach that high, it needs a 265K default price. That's a bit high for the avg. price.
I guess FD means such a station to get Pirate Attack, Boom(or Investment) and civil liberty which rely on luck for Pirate Attack.
And that could be a cause to this.

Yeah, default seems to be about 135k, so you'd need a 4th state which also had a ~2x multiplier and wasn't incompatible with PA, Boom, Civil Liberty (rare combination, but plenty of them on the scale of the bubble).

Expansion, War and Election don't appear to be it ... sticking a 2x on Retreat would have been an amazing bit of trolling, but it doesn't look like they did that either, and everything else is incompatible.

Possibly whoever set up the effect tables this time forgot that Pirate Attack and Public Holiday were incompatible when reporting the maximum figures?

 

[Stone Smith]

Yeah, default seems to be about 135k, so you'd need a 4th state which also had a ~2x multiplier and wasn't incompatible with PA, Boom, Civil Liberty (rare combination, but plenty of them on the scale of the bubble).

Expansion, War and Election don't appear to be it ... sticking a 2x on Retreat would have been an amazing bit of trolling, but it doesn't look like they did that either, and everything else is incompatible.

Possibly whoever set up the effect tables this time forgot that Pirate Attack and Public Holiday were incompatible when reporting the maximum figures?

I looked into Biowaste prices which is less state-related and found seemingly different default prices. So I guess 265K is not too far away from avg. 181K.
It's either the default price or a missing 1.5x state. But it seems possible now, just extraordinarily rare which is near impossible.
As this could hardly be examined exactly, I guess this could close the case. And your suggestion for that three particular events could be the truth as well.
Thx for the help.(And it's exactly that you mentioning Rackham prices made me think of this default price matter)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

One other thing I always forget about - because there aren't any up here - is Powerplay effects
- Torval and Mahon give rank 2 pledges a 20% profit increase in control/exploited systems, if at the top of the leaderboards ... Grom gives 15% in the same conditions (though Torval also gives a 5-10% price reduction for mined minerals)
- Patreus gives a 5% price increase for high-value goods in control/exploited systems
Marginal but it could contribute in some cases.

 

[MishaTX]

I just love the fact that mining is no longer "find hotspot for X, get frustrated when there's not as much of X as I was hoping for because none of the other stuff there is worth bothering with because it doesn't pay for [deleted]".

It's nice to not have your "ignore filter" set to "everything but those three things", not to mention the thrill of finding something you weren't looking for that's actually worth something.

But sure, if all you want to do is to create another YouTube "content video" about how you can make eleventy billion credits an hour in [insert system, planet and hotspot here] and have a fleet carrier in an afternoon that you then have no earthly clue what to do with, much less what you're going to do with the rest of your eleventy billion credits, then I suppose that the recent changes suck.

Not to worry, though. There are plenty of "games" out there where you can watch a counter go up faster or slower depending on how good you are at clicking a million times at something until you keel over in a catatonic state from sheer boredom. There's something for everybody

 

[alexzk]

I just love the fact that mining is no longer "find hotspot for X

Nah, now mining is "I don't bother it". Simple trade A<>B gives more money. And if I will ever wish mining activity to do, then it will be tritium for own use.

 

[Stone Smith]

I just love the fact that mining is no longer "find hotspot for X, get frustrated when there's not as much of X as I was hoping for because none of the other stuff there is worth bothering with because it doesn't pay for [deleted]".

It's nice to not have your "ignore filter" set to "everything but those three things", not to mention the thrill of finding something you weren't looking for that's actually worth something.

But sure, if all you want to do is to create another YouTube "content video" about how you can make eleventy billion credits an hour in [insert system, planet and hotspot here] and have a fleet carrier in an afternoon that you then have no earthly clue what to do with, much less what you're going to do with the rest of your eleventy billion credits, then I suppose that the recent changes suck.

Not to worry, though. There are plenty of "games" out there where you can watch a counter go up faster or slower depending on how good you are at clicking a million times at something until you keel over in a catatonic state from sheer boredom. There's something for everybody

Nope, never think bad of it, I would say the rebalance works excellent too.
It gives back the freedom and pleasure to blow up some rocks. Now that everything is fairly profitable, no need to watch for that credit anymore. Except, when it comes to mechanics comprehensing.
Imagine get your faction controlling station which demands some mineral and you stack up some nice states to make it one of the best drop-off place. People would simply come and boost your economy status with influence up.

 

[Stone Smith]

One other thing I always forget about - because there aren't any up here - is Powerplay effects

• Torval and Mahon give rank 2 pledges a 20% profit increase in control/exploited systems, if at the top of the leaderboards ... Grom gives 15% in the same conditions (though Torval also gives a 5-10% price reduction for mined minerals)
• Patreus gives a 5% price increase for high-value goods in control/exploited systems

Marginal but it could contribute in some cases.

Just like me picking ALD somehow for bounty bonus.