Artemis: overheat reduces your health, but cold? Surface Temperatures

CMDR Darth Vater

CMDR Darth Vater
Hi all,

I get a warning when leaving SRV/ship when it's very cold, but that doesn't seem to have an influence on health or energy of the suit, does it? Lowest known was about 20 K - and i couldn't see anything besides the warning.

On the other hand, when being above 500 K near a lava spout the SRV shows signs of overheating, but staying in 1400 K surface temperature it stays cool on 18%. Grounded ship had also no issues to deal with it, because the chrome reflects everything and it looks "cool"
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Apparently the ground should be at least partially molten at that temps. The Artemis wasn't able to deal with that temps too long, I constantly lost health.

It seems the simulation needs some overhaul on that details.
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Cmdr Esteban said:
I thought I had noticed a faster rate of battery depletion in very cold environments (which is what you would expect). Perhaps I was mistaken or haven’t recalled properly.
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Both cold and hot environments outside of safe margings deplete the battery faster as the suit actively works to stop you from freezing or overheating in those environments.

As to the heat/cold damage thing, well, I have seen some planets at 15K but I’m really not sure if there is any bodies cold enough to start taking damage from it. Also don’t recall any lower limit where it starts to set in(probably as a result of that), while I remember heat around 800K(maybe slightly below is where it starts).

That or lack of cold damage is a bug, seeing as google reveal 15K to be near absolute zero(-258.15 C, to be precise). Then again, maybe not, but those are some performant and insulating suits to keep your body at around 36C if so.
 

Northpin

Northpin
CMDR Darth Vater said:
Apparently the ground should be at least partially molten at that temps. The Artemis wasn't able to deal with that temps too long, I constantly lost health.
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Certain types of soils do not melt at 800-1000K

CMDR Darth Vater said:
It seems the simulation needs some overhaul on that details.
Click to expand...

Kira Goto said:
That or lack of cold damage is a bug, seeing as google reveal 15K to be near absolute zero(-258.15 C, to be precise). Then again, maybe not, but those are some performant and insulating suits to keep your body at around 36C if so.
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Yea, but why?
The materials the suit are built form can sustain the heat (800-1000K+) or the cold (20K)
The thermal regulators can cool the suits up to about 800K and keep the human inside safe, above a certain limits it's no longer safe and you'll eventually fade away
And it's also able to heat up the suit with no issues, even at the lowest possible temps.

IMO it's easier to heat a suit from inside, even at 15-20K, than to cool it off at 1000K - and the game seems to agree.
I mean, JWST IR sensors' operational temperature is well under 40K with MIRI lowest running temp of a bit under 7K
If todays tech allows us to have working engineering at those low temps, 3300+ tech should also be able to do so.

So, yea, i really see no issues regarding how the game engine is treating our Suits.

But then again - our SRVs are the most magically resistant things - they can ignore the effects of being in the cone of a White Dwarf / Neutron Star while a ship will melt in the very same environment
However, let's not forget... it's a game.
 

Ceres_O7

Ceres_O7
The suit UI actually has indicators for high and low temperatures right next to the battery power widget - extreme temperatures cause higher battery drain, and extreme high temperatures also cause damage.

SRV, yeah that one's always been a bit magical, it's heat indicator has always been pretty much entirely cosmetic.

But same could be said about why we're able to land a ship on 45G planet but not disembark - there's no artificial gravity so even if the ship could withstand it stationary, the human body shouldn't.

It's just a quirk of it being a game rather than a sim. We don't have to pack food and water canisters along for long distance exploration after all!
 

IstvaanDCIV

IstvaanDCIV
My intuition tells me that it's much easier, technologically speaking, to keep a human body warm in a cold environment than it is to keep a human body cool in a hot environment. In the former the suit just has to keep the heat from escaping a relatively small volume, which can be helped by insulation. In the latter, the suit's active cooling has to work to keep the surrounding ocean of heat from overwhelming the tiny speck of humanity within it, and the insulation likewise faces a larger challenge in terms of keeping the heat out. The human body itself produces heat which needs to be pushed out, and it's much easier to do that if the surrounding environment is colder than if it is hotter.

Although my understanding is also that the lack of an atmosphere can complicate this picture somewhat. For example, if you're on the sunlit side of an airless world, but are also standing in the shade, then you should be able to easily radiate heat away faster than one can produce it. Although I say "easily", it's also my understanding that radiation is the least efficient way of transferring heat, compared to convection or conduction. I haven't tested, so I don't know if Ody on-foot simulates/approximates this.

Since the maximum atmospheric pressure is 0.1 one can encounter while walking outside on a planet, this would place an upper limit on the amount of heat convection that can happen. Different gas mixtures would doubtless be more or less effective at convection, although I have no idea how one would calculate that for a given atmosphere.

Conduction seems like the easiest factor to account for. Would be limited to two points of contact, the soles of the suit boots. Insulation to prevent body heat from melting/sublimated the ground underneath, and active cooling systems to prevent one's feet from being cooked.
 

varonica

varonica
IstvaanDCIV said:
My intuition tells me that it's much easier, technologically speaking, to keep a human body warm in a cold environment than it is to keep a human body cool in a hot environment.
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We already have spacesuits that can keep human beings alive for extended periods both in orbit during EVA and on the surface of the moon, cold is not and has never been an issue as far as surviving in space is concerned, heat is the real problem, in fact current human space suits need special refrigerant attachments just to keep the temperature low enough for the astronauts before they board the capsule where they can connect to the capsule cooling system. Even during EVA the suits have to employ active cooling systems to stop the astronauts from overheating.

Now put that same space suit on a planet at just a few hundred C and ask yourself how they are going to get rid of that human generated heat inside the space suit? So yes you are correct, keeping them warm is certainly not a problem, even at minus hundreds of C it's still an issue of keeping them cool, not warm, insulation is so good these days without cooling systems astronauts would die very quickly in a space suit, the only issue I see on extremely cold bodies would be the contact surfaces, boots and other areas if you kneel down or even fall over.
 

Northpin

Northpin
varonica said:
We already have spacesuits that can keep human beings alive for extended periods both in orbit during EVA and on the surface of the moon, cold is not and has never been an issue as far as surviving in space is concerned, heat is the real problem, in fact current human space suits need special refrigerant attachments just to keep the temperature low enough for the astronauts before they board the capsule where they can connect to the capsule cooling system. Even during EVA the suits have to employ active cooling systems to stop the astronauts from overheating.

Now put that same space suit on a planet at just a few hundred C and ask yourself how they are going to get rid of that human generated heat inside the space suit? So yes you are correct, keeping them warm is certainly not a problem, even at minus hundreds of C it's still an issue of keeping them cool, not warm, insulation is so good these days without cooling systems astronauts would die very quickly in a space suit, the only issue I see on extremely cold bodies would be the contact surfaces, boots and other areas if you kneel down or even fall over.
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this somehow made me remember The Forever War by Joe Haldeman (a brilliant book) - there is a nice description of suits, how they perform in deep cold (under 10°K) and how easily you can die in those suits if you damage the heat radiators (that are dissipating the heat accumulated in the suits)
 

Riverside

Riverside
CMDR Darth Vater said:
Hi all,

I get a warning when leaving SRV/ship when it's very cold, but that doesn't seem to have an influence on health or energy of the suit, does it? Lowest known was about 20 K - and i couldn't see anything besides the warning.

On the other hand, when being above 500 K near a lava spout the SRV shows signs of overheating, but staying in 1400 K surface temperature it stays cool on 18%. Grounded ship had also no issues to deal with it, because the chrome reflects everything and it looks "cool"
View attachment 360496

Apparently the ground should be at least partially molten at that temps. The Artemis wasn't able to deal with that temps too long, I constantly lost health.

It seems the simulation needs some overhaul on that details.
Click to expand...

Initially above a certain temp the game wouldn't let you disembark, now you can but you take constant health damage. I have disembarked onto planet surfaces at 3 Kelvin & had no health damage, you can ignore the low temp warning. Don't know whether that's intended or not 🤷‍♂️
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
"Dangerously low" temperatures will cause you to lose health, but only if the suit is out of power. Otherwise, low temperatures only cause your suit battery to drain slightly faster.

The suit can heat/cool itself when it's outside safe temperature zones, and eventually once it gets hot enough it'll overwhelm your suit's ability to cool itself and you'll start taking damage regardless of whether it has power or not. The thing is, this requires you to be outside your temperature bounds by like... four figures. Which isn't possible in the negative direction because... well, you'd have to go below zero kelvin to be a thousand degrees colder than a normal body temperature.
 

varonica

varonica
Northpin said:
this somehow made me remember The Forever War by Joe Haldeman (a brilliant book) - there is a nice description of suits, how they perform in deep cold (under 10°K) and how easily you can die in those suits if you damage the heat radiators (that are dissipating the heat accumulated in the suits)
Click to expand...

Yeah that was a good book, relativity and time dilation during interstellar war is certainly a problem without some sort of warp drive that gets around that issue.
 
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