Engineers As I understand it, reverberating cascade seems OP

[Silaz]

Was doing the combat CG with a mate and he wanted to go into open to have a go against real players.

Wasn't a good idea, because he was ill prepared in a FDL that wasn't even A rated, let alone engineered! LOL!

But anyway, I'm in my Conda, my friend had already combat logged because he was getting kicked, and I end up in this fight on my own against a couple of FDL. I only just managed to get away - thinking it was still stupid to try and take on two of these things, even if I am a better pilot now.

So I get back to the station and find a 150k CR repair bill? Checked modules for damage, and shield generator had been taken down to 64%. Presumably if I hadn't jumped away when I did, it could have been a matter of seconds before they failed through malfunction, even if I had restored more health from the SCBs.

I haven't yet tried using Reverberating Cascade myself yet, but am I correct in assuming that one does not need to target shield module specifically? So strikes to shield alone is enough to deal direct damage to the shield module?

Does this not make the weapon effect particularly overpowered, given that it's not so difficult to hit something big like an Anaconda with rails or mines, and that there is no defense against this attack?

Maybe if we had some kind of 'slip shield' weapon effect for certain weapons, that required targeting of specific modules through shields, dealing a small percentage of damage direct, then players would have a choice of modules to attack, and/or defend against, by using chaff or positioning their ship so as not to present the module as so easy a target (whenever possible), then I think it would be fairer than the current implementation of the reverb cascade effect.

I'm sure this has been discussed well before, but how do people feel about it now?

 

[Herbrand]

Yes, they are very powerful - but it takes 6 torpedoes to bring down a large shield generator, and a size 2 hardpoint only holds 2 with no chance for synthesis. So yeah, it's kinda balanced, considering you can also run away from them or take them out with EMP.

What is NOT unbalanced, on the other hand, is Reverberating Cascade MINES: even a size 1 hardpoint holds a lot of them, and they can be restocked mid-combat via synthesis.
Bottom line: even if you are in a Cutter with 6000 Mj of highly-resistant shields, a Cobra with 2 mine launcher can turn circles around you and destroy your shield generator while being nigh-untouchable. Then it's just a matter of getting away and snipe your powerplant with long range rails, gg.

 

[Silaz]

Yes, they are very powerful - but it takes 6 torpedoes to bring down a large shield generator, and a size 2 hardpoint only holds 2 with no chance for synthesis. So yeah, it's kinda balanced, considering you can also run away from them or take them out with EMP.

What is NOT unbalanced, on the other hand, is Reverberating Cascade MINES: even a size 1 hardpoint holds a lot of them, and they can be restocked mid-combat via synthesis.
Bottom line: even if you are in a Cutter with 6000 Mj of highly-resistant shields, a Cobra with 2 mine launcher can turn circles around you and destroy your shield generator while being nigh-untouchable. Then it's just a matter of getting away and snipe your powerplant with long range rails, gg.

Yeah, that's why I didn't mention torps, I assume they're still an unpopular or uncommon choice. Mines and rails I assumed people would be using for the reasons you state, with class 2 mine launchers being able to hold a ridiculous number of ammo.

The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be a defense against it. And this would require a whole new type of weapon effect applied to some other weapons to replace RC with, that can be countered with something like chaff, which we don't normally bother to put on large ships these days.

 

[racer1]

Rails have feedback cascade, that is different. It affects shield cell banks.

Only torps and mines have reverb cascade.

I think they are balanced ok at the moment.

 

[bigity]

Mines are Ok, they are difficult to hit with, the enemy CMDR gives up hardpoints, and you can always simply turn away. If you see someone is in a small, fast ship darting around laying mines, just leave - they won't be able to masslock you, and the FSD reset mine has a cooldown so it can only stop you once.

 

[bigity]

Yeah, that's why I didn't mention torps, I assume they're still an unpopular or uncommon choice. Mines and rails I assumed people would be using for the reasons you state, with class 2 mine launchers being able to hold a ridiculous number of ammo.

The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be a defense against it. And this would require a whole new type of weapon effect applied to some other weapons to replace RC with, that can be countered with something like chaff, which we don't normally bother to put on large ships these days.

There are defenses against torps. It's actually pretty easy to avoid them, or use ECM.

If someone with a torp loadout gets in close, neither of those work, but you can still just leave usually. You should be able to get away before enough can hit to take out shield generators.

2v1 is bad in almost any situation, the weapon had less to do with this than being outnumbered and your 'friend' combat logging to avoid a rebuy for something he sought out.

 

[Silaz]

Oh OK then. Suppose I will just have to be more wary of these things. I have tried mine bombing a little bit, and found it much easier to hit large ships in a fighter rather than other fighters in PvE, it does seem to require a lot of practice and skill to get proficient with. So just have to hope I don't run into too many of these sort of builds when in a large ship.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Torps travel at 150 m/s and require 1 Km distance arming themselves. They can be outran in a type 9.

Cascade mines are visible on the radar, besides it requires a good skill to place them properly, see cmdr Na'Qan's videos.

In any combat you are responsible to check your opponent's loadout and when you see torpedos / mines, they are most probably rev cascades.

 

[Morbad]

Not overpowered, IMO, but they definitely have a niche.

Torpedoes:

[video=youtube;LyX8oPhgPZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyX8oPhgPZ8[/video]

Mines:

[video=youtube;1T3GkgA9xhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T3GkgA9xhI[/video]


There are no reverberating cascade (which attack the shield generator itself) rails, those are feedback cascade and they interrupt SCB charge and damage SCBs.