Asking for Refund is NONENSE!

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Joecool

Joecool
Anyone who has paid anything at this point is a backer.

In case you haven't heard the game isn't out yet. It is a working progress. We all as backers have the privilege and the responsibility to voice our opinions, concerns, admiration, and suggestions. Don't let a vocal few put a lot of bad press out about this no offline mode controversy.

I don't care if you backed $75 or $10 Million.

You get to have your voice heard regarding what you hope this game will be. That is the nature of the cooperation with the development team when having so much input during the design and implementation process. It really is a beautiful thing having a developer that is so open with their game vision and so open to our input. Please don't squander this opportunity by ranting that what YOU wanted wasn't put into the game. Don't make the developers wish they hadn't allowed us to influence the game by getting so upset when what YOU wanted gets dropped from production or passed by on the suggestion forum.

In the end there are lots of people who have backed this game. Each and every person pledged their money to HELP Frontier's vision of a great game come to light, and with our input maybe some of that vision could be ours too. In the future more things may be dropped for the drawing board. More ideas, maybe even things frontier "Promised" will be in the game, maybe will be scrapped. That is the nature of pre-release. You just can't know sometimes what kinds of roadblocks will stand in the way.

If you are somebody who can't handle it when someone says a game will be a certain way, but in the end is different from the original plan then backing is NOT for you. WAIT for the game's release and see what kinds of features it supports at that time. If you are happy with it at that time, then buy it. Or you can say "Well if they add Wormholes then I will buy it." -example

You shouldn't get to pledge your money on the pretext that the game will be exactly what you wanted and ask for your money back if it isn't. Think about how many other things people want that have been changed. Should they all get their money back too?


TL:DR
If you backed and now want your money back you are an idiot for backing in the first place. That's not how kickstarters work.
 

Nauht

N
Joecool said:
Anyone who has paid anything at this point is a backer.

....

TL:DR
If you backed and now want your money back you are an idiot for backing in the first place. That's not how kickstarters work.
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You done on your soapbox now? Fortunately where I'm from, as i"m sure with most developed countries, the law respectfully disagrees.

Call it what you want for your particular country but the basic principle that can probably be applied is this - would you have bought/backed/put money into the game if you knew that this was how it was going to turn out? Especially if it was advertised with a specific feature that now isn't available. If the answer is no, then you've got some legal legs to stand on.

Whether or not you're in the same jurisdiction and whether you can be bothered fighting such a trivial amount (in the eyes of the court) is up to you but it isn't nonsense to want a refund.
 
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Joecool

Joecool
Nauht said:
You done on your soapbox now? Fortunately where I'm from, as i"m sure with most developed countries, the law respectfully disagrees.

Call it what you want for your particular country but the basic principle that can probably be applied is this - would you have bought/backed/put money into the game if you knew that this was how it was going to turn out? Especially if it was advertised with a specific feature that now isn't available. If the answer is no, then you've got some legal legs to stand on.

Whether or not you're in the same jurisdiction and whether you can be bothered fighting such a trivial amount (in the eyes of the court) is up to you but it isn't nonsense to want a refund.
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LOL the LAW?

You think you have a legal right to have the game you thought you paid for?

You wanna talk about the law read the Terms and Conditions first. LOL

Next!
 

Bog

B
For people who cannot play the game, and have been unable to buy the game after buying it, I don't think a refund of the cost of the game is unreasonable.

For anything else, yes it is unreasonable. When you back a Kickstarter, you are effectively less than an angel investor. You don't have a lot of protections, the rules of THAT game are made perfectly clear from the get-go, and not bothering to read them or crying "foul!" after the fact is just silly. You don't get stock, you don't get to control the outcome, and you own nothing of the product. If you want that sort of control, Frontier's going for IPO - buy a lot of stock in it, then throw your weight around in board meetings.

The rules of Kickstarter are in black and white. You're financially supporting someone else's dream because you like the sound of it.

You are not buying a product.
You are not investing in a company.
You are not owed anything but the Kickstarter campaign's very best try to make the best thing they can.
Safety Not Guaranteed.

Cry "lawyer!" all you like, but seriously? Stop pretending you were robbed. If you think that, then you didn't read the rules before putting cash into the system. There's not much sympathy I have for that.
 

sbdags

sbdags
Bog said:
For people who cannot play the game, and have been unable to buy the game after buying it, I don't think a refund of the cost of the game is unreasonable.

For anything else, yes it is unreasonable. When you back a Kickstarter, you are effectively less than an angel investor. You don't have a lot of protections, the rules of THAT game are made perfectly clear from the get-go, and not bothering to read them or crying "foul!" after the fact is just silly. You don't get stock, you don't get to control the outcome, and you own nothing of the product. If you want that sort of control, Frontier's going for IPO - buy a lot of stock in it, then throw your weight around in board meetings.

The rules of Kickstarter are in black and white. You're financially supporting someone else's dream because you like the sound of it.

You are not buying a product.
You are not investing in a company.
You are not owed anything but the Kickstarter campaign's very best try to make the best thing they can.
Safety Not Guaranteed.

Cry "lawyer!" all you like, but seriously? Stop pretending you were robbed. If you think that, then you didn't read the rules before putting cash into the system. There's not much sympathy I have for that.
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Well said Bog.

+1 in total agreement.
 

T@F

T@F
So this thread is just to mock ppl who bought it but cannot play for reasons that's not you're concern?
 

Bog

B
Joecool said:
@BOG Thank you for your post. I think you were able to voice my thoughts more clear and concise than I was. :D
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I acknowledge that Frontier's late announcement of a problem they'd been struggling with for A Long Time was... ill-judged. And perhaps said a little too bluntly (says he who too often uses his own tongue as a cudgel). But that's neither here nor there when it comes to the basic facts of throwing money into a Kickstarter. I say "throwing money into" advisedly. It's a gamble, a risk - even if your favoured 'Starter is funded, what comes out the other end is the product of necessity and expediency. Outcome Uncertain.
 

Valetudin Arian

V
I will not talk for anyone else and their reasons for no longer being interested in paying for this but there is a perspective you fan boy wannabe's are avoiding look at, offline or single player w/e is the only way you get to keep what you pay for, only way you own a game you can play when ever you want and know it will be there until you remove the game. If you had played games like star wars galaxies etc you would already know your time and money means nothing to server owners who will only be there until they decide to delete your characters and shut down any and all servers. Do people not understand what ownership means in terms of a sense of accomplishment and eagerness to play? As long as there are sheep willing to follow someone around until they kick you to the curb then it is all good hey? Or do people not think the servers will go down, indefinitely and undeniably some day...Go team sheep!!
Luckily I get to say all this from a position of "I will wait and see before throwing my money at it" and so taking single player off the table only hurts the dev's not me because I did not pay a cent nor will I now.
 

jamotide

J
Nope...losing the kickstarter money is a risk if the company goes belly up. But if they don't, they are legally required to deliver the pledge rewards. And this isn't a case of sorry game development blah blah, this is a case of them deliberately not wanting to release the DRM free server files.
So yeah, money back is the only other option.
 

Nauht

N
Joecool said:
LOL the LAW?

You think you have a legal right to have the game you thought you paid for?

You wanna talk about the law read the Terms and Conditions first. LOL

Next!
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Yes the law. Here in Australia it's called the Australian Consumer Law and it's a statute - which trumps any sort of T&C.
You'd chase FD on major flaw - that the offline mode was one of the major aspects of why you backed the game and if it didn't have any you'd never have backed it in the first place. That's a major flaw and if you were in Aus, you'd win 100%.

But then FD is out of our jurisdiction so we're SoL in that regard. But I'm hearing that the EU has similarly robust consumer laws, if England doesn't. But then again chasing FD for a few hundred (if that) is seriously a waste of time, but you could do it on principle if you wanted to and had the resources.
 

Bog

B
Nauht said:
Yes the law.
Click to expand...

Which again brings me back to the Kickstarter Ts & Cs, which explicitly state that the final product may be other than the one stated.

You entered a contract. Sorry. If you didn't read that, then the people putting up the Kickstarter are not at fault - you are. Sorry to be blunt, but I've seen so many people trying to soak the forum in "EVERYTHING IS DOOOOOOMED!" and "What about when the servers go down, you failing company who's about to get sued, you?" that I'm peeved beyond politeness. It's like petulant toddlers saying "Well, if I can't have it, then NOBODY CAN HAVE IT!" Bring on the lawyers! Destroy the company! Blacken Braben's name for daring to have a creative vision and pursuing it beyond my comfort zone!

If you didn't realise the terms and conditions of what you were contractually obligated to by contributing to the Kickstarter, then no number of lawyers in the world will get you out of it. I'm really sorry if you didn't read that, but that's the case. Please stop trying to destroy it for the rest of us.
 

Steve O B Have

Steve O B Have
This thread is not on and unacceptable. We do not want to see another one like this showing up. It is for Frontier to deal with and not to be weighed in on by other members, especially not when it involves personal attacks.

Closed.
 
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