Atmospheric planets: Frontier's technology already here!

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Hi folks,

For anyone doubting about atmospheric planets in Elite Dangerous - sometime SOON (TM) that is - please take a peek of how amazingly talented people are working at Frontier Developments capable of bringing hi-tech, realistic plant life into gaming world. This is developer build gameplay demo of their newest (yet to be released in June '2018) licensed title Jurassic World Evolution:

[video=youtube_share;cJYqeX5-lZo]https://youtu.be/cJYqeX5-lZo[/video]

I'm not sure if the game is build with the use of Cobra engine, but just look how well and sexy the environment looks at various distances (up from the very far, till the very ground level)!!!

About the brilliant crowd technology Frontier already developed I'm sure you've already heard of:

[video=youtube_share;GKTkehnqGKg]https://youtu.be/GKTkehnqGKg[/video]

The technology is already there folks. And it's amazing! All we need is proper dose of patience.

Cheers and fly dangerously out there Commanders!

 

[Chris Simon]

Yeah, we know that Cobra engine can handle that.
The question is: Can Frontier?

 

[Bartizan]

Sooooo I can expect to be eaten by space T-Rexxes....Rexi....Rex By large angry bird lizards when we finally land on atmo planets? Huzzah!!

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Yeah, we know that Cobra engine can handle that.
The question is: Can Frontier?

The videos above obviously show they can. The question should be: will they be willing to bring that to Elite Dangerous?

 

[lysan]

Yeah, we know that Cobra engine can handle that.
The question is: Can Frontier?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE ATMOSPHERE <insert jack here>

 

[Chris Simon]

The videos above obviously show they can. The question should be: will they be willing to bring that to Elite Dangerous?

.. in a way that makes sense. That's the issue. We still have no real gameplay on airless worlds. I don't doubt that coding the above graphics into the stellar forge isn't all that difficult, but the question is - what sense does it make in a space sim and what space-simmy things there are to do.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

.. in a way that makes sense. That's the issue. We still have no real gameplay on airless worlds. I don't doubt that coding the above graphics into the stellar forge isn't all that difficult, but the question is - what sense does it make in a space sim and what space-simmy things there are to do.

Think you kinda hit the spot here mate. With questions like yours raised it's obvious why we don't see atmospheric planets yet. My drill was to show it will happen eventually though. But probably Frontier is aiming to address answers to your questions first.

Cheers!

 

[Chris Simon]

Think you kinda hit the spot here mate. With questions like yours raised it's obvious why we don't see atmospheric planets yet. My drill was to show it will happen eventually though. But probably Frontier is aiming to address answers to your questions first.

Cheers!

Yes, I also remain optimistic. It WILL come one day.

But I also don't want Fdev to just say "Here. Your planets. They have grass and trees and animals. Do what you will with it."

 

[Vasea Azure]

Could be different branch of Cobra, they showed that they can do stuff like this with many games already. Also it renders top down view of selected area not entire planet that you can visit from any angle you want.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Could be different branch of Cobra, they showed that they can do stuff like this with many games already. Also it renders top down view of selected area not entire planet that you can visit from any angle you want.

I'm not a game developer, but I'd assume if the awesome looking and working LOD changes for terrain (which Elite has mastered already) and plant life do already work as in quoted videos it should be totally feasible to maintain such effects when combined with procedural generation of a whole planet.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE ATMOSPHERE <insert jack here>

A Few Good Men was released almost 26 years ago.

I hope I live long enough to see atmospheric planets and life forms in ED.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Sooooo I can expect to be eaten by space T-Rexxes....Rexi....Rex By large angry bird lizards when we finally land on atmo planets? Huzzah!!

No Mans Sky - Frontier Edition?

 

[Jools]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHa

NO

HAHAHAHAH

seems like you have no clue about either game, nor much about technology

I keep hearing that sort of "predictions" and "proofs" since "The Outsider"

I`m sorry for this harsh post, but the premise of OP`s post is just wrong

things don`t work like that in game development

FD said so themselves (when same exact stuff was said before Planet Coaster beta launched)

ED is a very special kind of game, heavy PG use combined with p2p pseudo MMO infrastructure make trivial things insanely hard and many non trivial simply impossible (with current and upcoming technology), and those problems are getting and will only get worse with time. Even Elite`s lead designer said that the game has become very hard to develop

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHa

NO

HAHAHAHAH

seems like you have no clue about either game, nor much about technology

I keep hearing that sort of "predictions" and "proofs" since "The Outsider"

HAHAHAHAHAH, lol. You don't even know yourself. These example are whether the cobra engine can do that kind of gameplay which is a 100% yes. As to whether they will add Earthlikes and space legs in is another matter entirely. The answer to that is possibly. Not a no as none of us know apart from FDev.

Seems like you don't know much either.

 

[Jools]

HAHAHAHAHAH, lol. You don't even know yourself. These example are whether the cobra engine can do that kind of gameplay which is a 100% yes. As to whether they will add Earthlikes and space legs in is another matter entirely. The answer to that is possibly. Not a no as none of us know apart from FDev.

Seems like you don't know much either.

heh...

Max... we`ve been through this already... Twice... including PM`s. I even told you that this has been happening since "the outsider" and during PC release and that it will all start again as soon as new vids about JW will appear...

So first thing:

This is the opening line to the op

For anyone doubting about atmospheric planets in Elite Dangerous - sometime SOON (TM) that is - please take a peek of how amazingly talented people are working at Frontier Developments capable of bringing hi-tech, realistic plant life into gaming world.

In this line OP heavily implies that some people doubt if frontier can deliver rich atmospheric planets with flora and fauna and that he thinks that they should reconsider because of the proof that follows (videos).

Later he concludes with

The technology is already there folks. And it's amazing!

again heavily implying that what is needed for atmospheric planets with flora and fauna is already there, in the engine

so I`m sorry max but no, those aren`t "examples weather the cobra engine can do that kind of gameplay" because:

1) op never says anything about any gameplay, he only mentions "crowd technology" (oooh..) and how well and sexy do the environments look
2) op clearly states that his examples are the examples of technology that is already there ready to use in Elite to enable atmospheric planets

Now going back to my post and my reaction to the op, I`ll just explain that:

The fact that certain technology works in a given branch of an engine in a given environment (small scale, static, low density, low draw distance) does not mean that it will work within a different codebase in a totally different environment (world wide p2p networking, huge scale, heavily dependant on procgen and its inbound limitations, huge draw distance). This is something that Sandro (if i recall correctly) said himself when people wrongly assumed that the "crowd tech" from PC will surely soon be used in our stations

Same situation applies here... a small slow static management game having dinosaurs and o.k. looking plants does not mean we are anywhere close to having procedurally generated life sized planets

Belief in such misguided hopes is... well laugh worthy, hence my original reaction, but also proves one`s lack of understanding of hurdles and limitations bound to extensive use of not only interconnected procedural generation but also peer to peer networking


Even if you could somehow argue that all the OP wanted to say is that JW is a proof that FD are very talented developers and that in turn means that they are capable of providing atmospheric planets with flora and fauna in ED in a timely fashion... this will still mean nothing... because, again, it`s a small scale SP game, many of which we have seen over the years from studios around the world.

Many (most) games, including indie titles, have shown similar or even far better environments, and have been showing for years. "tree brushes" are nothing new too, as are crowd behaviour algorithms. Nice animations are a norm in mid to high budget games. Doesn`t mean any of them could easily do quality PG of a galaxy worth of believable life-sized atmospheric planets with flora and fauna

In other words... Those videos mean nothing other than maybe they show the fact that FD`s focus has recently been outside E.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

What do we want?
ATMOS LANDINGS
When do we want it..?
v3.X something.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

heh...

Max... we`ve been through this already... Twice... including PM`s. I even told you that this has been happening since "the outsider" and during PC release and that it will all start again as soon as new vids about JW will appear...

So first thing:

This is the opening line to the op



In this line OP heavily implies that some people doubt if frontier can deliver rich atmospheric planets with flora and fauna and that he thinks that they should reconsider because of the proof that follows (videos).

Later he concludes with



again heavily implying that what is needed for atmospheric planets with flora and fauna is already there, in the engine

so I`m sorry max but no, those aren`t "examples weather the cobra engine can do that kind of gameplay" because:

1) op never says anything about any gameplay, he only mentions "crowd technology" (oooh..) and how well and sexy do the environments look
2) op clearly states that his examples are the examples of technology that is already there ready to use in Elite to enable atmospheric planets

Now going back to my post and my reaction to the op, I`ll just explain that:

The fact that certain technology works in a given branch of an engine in a given environment (small scale, static, low density, low draw distance) does not mean that it will work within a different codebase in a totally different environment (world wide p2p networking, huge scale, heavily dependant on procgen and its inbound limitations, huge draw distance). This is something that Sandro (if i recall correctly) said himself when people wrongly assumed that the "crowd tech" from PC will surely soon be used in our stations

Same situation applies here... a small slow static management game having dinosaurs and o.k. looking plants does not mean we are anywhere close to having procedurally generated life sized planets

Belief in such misguided hopes is... well quite laughable, hence my original reaction, but also proves one`s lack of understanding of hurdles and limitations bound to extensive use of not only interconnected procedural generation but also peer to peer networking


Even if you could somehow argue that all the OP wanted to say is that JW is a proof that FD are very talented developers and that in turn means that they are capable of providing atmospheric planets with flora and fauna in ED in a timely fashion... this will still mean nothing... because, again, it`s a small scale SP game, many of which we have seen over the years from studios around the world.

Many (most) games, including indie titles, have shown similar or even far better environments, and have been showing for years. "tree brushes" are nothing new too, as are crowd behaviour algorithms. Nice animations are a norm in mid to high budget games. Doesn`t mean any of them could easily do quality PG of a galaxy worth of believable life-sized atmospheric planets with flora and fauna

In other words... Those videos mean nothing other than maybe they show the fact that FD`s focus has recently been outside E.

I would be very surprised if the OP thought you could just plug and play the tech from game to game.

Can it be done, yes, that is obvious. Are they doing it though, well again we do not know, and to say they are not is not being honest.

None of us know what long term dev work is going on with ED.

As to focus, the games have different teams. If anything it is highly likely that planet coaster staff have gone over to JWE as they share the same roots.

Again, I will.say that you do not know, like I do not know.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

FD is a very special kind of game, heavy PG use combined with p2p pseudo MMO infrastructure make trivial things insanely hard and many non trivial simply impossible (with current and upcoming technology), and those problems are getting and will only get worse with time. Even Elite`s lead designer said that the game has become very hard to develop

That's why they should work on a new ED game that leverages assets and experience.

They need to add base building to this game the way Subnautica did.

 

[Jenner]

I'd love atmo planets and Earth-likes in the game, but I'd also like to have gameplay to match. (For instance the 'big game hunting' that David mentioned waaaaay back in Kickstarter).

Anyway, yes - the Cobra engine can render nice vegetation and whatnot, but the other question is how well that can be implemented on a planetary scale within the stellar forge. There may be hurdles to doing that that FD are currently grappling with. Elite players are a discerning bunch, so I think just taking the island in JWE and scaling it up to a planet (even if it were easy to do) may not be desirable. Just look at the kerfuffle over begification! I think players would want planets with varied and believable terrain with seamless transitions and gameplay to boot.

So it's not just a question of Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V of code from JWE to Elite.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

They need to add base building to this game the way Subnautica did.

Subnautica base building had a purpose. There is no purpose for base building in Elite at the moment. Come up with good reasons to have them.