AX Combat: Swarm mechanics and weapons

[Brannor]

Thargon swarms are a limiting factor for engaging in AX combat away from surface defense missions.
The swarms do significant damage, if ignored, and the mechanism to defend against them (flak launcher) requires specific piloting skills to use effectively.
It would be helpful if there were alternative defenses against the swarms.

The two options I'm recommending are AX ECM and AX Point-Defense.
AX ECM could destroy caustic missiles and temporarily disable Thargon swarms (similar to Interceptor energy pulses disabling human ships.)
AX Point-Defense could shoot down caustic missiles and Thargons (one at a time.)

From a balance perspective, these are a trade off that reduces the need for well timed slow flak projectile shots against swarms (and potentially frees up a weapon slot.)
The cost, however, is a reduction in available utility slots for other items.
Additionally, the effectiveness of the Point-Defense diminishes significantly against the larger swarms (due to their exponentially increasing numbers) so these aren't a 'magic bullet' for the larger interceptors/swarms.
As long as the EMC is a disabling, not destroying mechanic, it also has the same limitation (since it only mitigates part of the swarm's DPS as opposed to destroying the swarm itself.)

 

[Kissamies]

Like in all the other previous threads on this subject, I agree but lean towards the PD more. I think it should ideally balanced in such way that you should have more than one to be really effective. This in turn would make the 8 utility mount large ships a bit more attractive than they are now. Shooting down caustic missiles is much less relevant now that we have the Caustic Sink. Can pretty much ignore scout and cyclops missiles and tank basilisk ones quite confidently, though medusa and especially hydra missiles are still to be respected.

 

[CMDR thefezzer]

the mechanism to defend against them (flak launcher) requires specific piloting skills to use effectively.

This is how the game provides us levels of progress. This is normal and natural, and the game would feel hollow without it.

 

[Chaparral]

What about AX mines? Get the swarm to follow you and drop mines. You'd have to burn a weapon slot, but the skill required would be lower.

What about guided AX missiles with the limited function of dealing with the swarm? You could make their comparitive balancing factor a reduction in ammo capacity relative to the flak cannon.

 

[Kissamies]

The real problem with flak is that it's ineffective in CZ. The traditional way to use it (let them come to you as you reverski) rarely works (swarm switches targets) and is too time consuming as there always is another swarm. The other way to use it appears to be to build really fast specialised ship with 2 or more flaks and chase them down, but that ship is then not effective at anything else. A flak with better projectile speed is a bare minimum we need for the swarms, but it would be better to have new approach.

 

[BackToTheMud]

Why do you want to turn thargoid combat into no-skill potato mode?
If you absolutely want to adjust the swarms impact you should just remove their kamikaze attack, and possibly give tha flack launcher a bit more ammo.
That way you still have the threat from the swarm without without you getting nuked for a few seconds of inattentivness, while having the ammo to taje more snapp shots at the swarm as ypu cold orbit.

 

[DemiserofD]

Why do you want to turn thargoid combat into no-skill potato mode?
If you absolutely want to adjust the swarms impact you should just remove their kamikaze attack, and possibly give tha flack launcher a bit more ammo.
That way you still have the threat from the swarm without without you getting nuked for a few seconds of inattentivness, while having the ammo to taje more snapp shots at the swarm as ypu cold orbit.

Missiles are no big deal, the real problem is the way they do 100% phasing damage through Shields.

 

[Brannor]

What about AX mines? Get the swarm to follow you and drop mines. You'd have to burn a weapon slot, but the skill required would be lower.

What about guided AX missiles with the limited function of dealing with the swarm? You could make their comparitive balancing factor a reduction in ammo capacity relative to the flak cannon.

Why do you want to turn thargoid combat into no-skill potato mode?
If you absolutely want to adjust the swarms impact you should just remove their kamikaze attack, and possibly give tha flack launcher a bit more ammo.
That way you still have the threat from the swarm without without you getting nuked for a few seconds of inattentivness, while having the ammo to taje more snapp shots at the swarm as ypu cold orbit.

I don't. I think reducing the swarm's threat is a bad idea since there's no logical reason for it, and increasing the flak launcher's ammo capacity isn't significant since running out of flak ammo isn't really a concern.

Point Defense that works against the swarm is like using Point Defense on pack hounds - it'll help but it's not going to save you (especially against 256 of them.)
ECM disabling the swarm for a bit is the same thing - it'll help, but you'll still have to use the flak launchers if you want to drop the swarm quickly.

AX mines and missiles for swarms are an interesting idea.
Both have the benefit of a different skillset for targeting the swarm but still require the same time and attention the flak launcher does.
The mines to fly the reverse course to pull the swarm into them, and the guided missiles require being locked on which takes its own time.

What I would like to see is for low/mid tier AX combat to become more accessible as the Thargoid War progresses through innovation.
Having alternatives to enhance/replace the flak launcher is what I'm suggesting to support that.