AX CZ Feedback

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I've done AX CZ combat before (almost exclusively at ground sites) and have resumed with the invasion of Sol. I did this solo before and mostly have done it that way during this invasion. While doing my own thing, I still received the messages from players in the area and constantly kept seeing the refrain "Make sure you turn Report Crimes Off." I figured this was just to avoid bounties, and possibly notoriety, from friendly fire accidents.

But then I decided to try an instance in Open at the site I was already docked at (one of the ports in Eta Eridani). Before switching, I turned report crimes off. I joined in the instance at the midway point and had fun downing interceptors with several other commanders. At one point, I noticed one of the other player's Chieftains was red to me... figured he accidentally grazed me and didn't worry about it. And he seemed to be able to dock with no issues (we actually landed and repaired simultaneously at one point).

Then the Hydras spawned. I did my best, and may have been the one to kill the Hydra's first heart - if not, certainly helped. But I got the crap beat out of me and went back to repair. Imagine my surprise when I docked - all services were locked out because I had a fine. I couldn't repair, so I rejoined the fight in my crippled state. I figured if I died, I'd respawn at the port (my mistake, I don't die with bounty's on my head often) and resume the fight. Nope... off to a detention center I went. Fines were cleared, but I wasn't able to rejoin the fight.

So Dev's, here is my feedback:

1. Kudos on awarding participants material rewards for each liberated system we participated in. That was unexpected, but nice.
2. Why do AX ports care about crimes at all? This is just beyond dumb.
3. If they are going to care about minor fines, why don't you have the admin contact available so we can clear them there. Again, dumb decision. They can give out missions, but not clear fines (and to a lesser extent, cash in Combat Bonds)?
4. Why have you forced good players to turn off "report crimes" to avoid the above issues, which just makes it that much more fun for gankers when they show up?

Seriously... these are some major headaches that could be cleared with minimal effort on your part. I never encountered them before because I was always playing solo. Also, up until "Invasion Sol" this was considered end game content, so I can sort of get you not caring. But now you want all the new players to join in too (complete with jumpstart ships), and this is what they get to deal with?!

Again, I've had fun - and made a TON of credits - doing solo AX CZs over this past weekend (helped liberate both Sirius and Eta Eridani (or something like that)). When I decided to try open, and went to the trouble to make sure I didn't cause problems for others (I turned my report crimes off), I still got my fun ruined (or ended early, at least) because someone else in the instance didn't do that.

I'm sure players have reported this before, but I am stunned at just a bad design decision. AX ports should suspend all criminal inquiries OR give you the ability to pay off any issues when you dock. What kind of idiot turns away someone trying (and successfully) saving their base because they broke the equivalent of traffic rules?!

I may give open AX a couple of more tries, as it was just fun to be a part of, but I'll be doing most of my fighting solo because to paraphrase that Fallout tagline "Open, Open never changes."

 

[BDelacroix]

I've had in at least 3 out of 4 combat instances where someone is red to me. I have crimes off. All its done for me is make sure I pay attention when selecting a next target.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I've had in at least 3 out of 4 combat instances where someone is red to me. I have crimes off. All its done for me is make sure I pay attention when selecting a next target.

Same here. I know I never hit him (he clearly must've hit me). He was red to me before I was locked out of docking. But someone else must've still had Report Crimes On, so when I grazed them (like he did me), I was locked out. Dumb, dumb system.

 

[Kira Goto]

People have complained about this since the Titan incursion started, Frontier for some reason still have not just switched crime reporting off completely (and, by extension, by default) in AX CZs/turned them lawless, much like is the case in human CZs.

I vaguely recall some patch note of a past update saying “AX NPCs would no longer incorrectly award bounties” or something but, assuming I didn’t completely misinterpret the meaning… I still see plenty of “Clean” ones and was aggravated by the nonsense in the Shinrarta invasion most recently. Bot crashed into me because its ‘Fly away and try to scrub caustic off’ routine kicked in while its flight path intersected with mine. Couple scrapes on both our hulls but apparently I am now a “CrImInAl” for an accidental collision in a goddamn war zone when the cause of the explosion was a caustic missile, not me shooting the Cyclops which fired it.

It makes me roll my eyes just typing this absolutely ridiculous nonsense out.

 

[Blaggerdy]

I may give open AX a couple of more tries, as it was just fun to be a part of, but I'll be doing most of my fighting solo because to paraphrase that Fallout tagline "Open, Open never changes."

You could also consider the AXI PG. There are still a few people with report crimes left on despite the PG rules but why not give it a go

Private Group – Anti-Xeno Initiative

antixenoinitiative.com

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

You could also consider the AXI PG. There are still a few people with report crimes left on despite the PG rules but why not give it a go

Private Group – Anti-Xeno Initiative

antixenoinitiative.com

Thanks, I might try that. And I did do another Open session tonight and helped in the killing of the final two Hydras. That was fun.

My main point of this post was to point how the simple, stupid design mistakes made that can cause players so many problems. It could easily be fixed by making these zones temporarily anarchy and/or re-enabling the contact to pay off fines. Worse, by turning of "Report Crimes" - the only workaround - everyone leaves themselves open to gankers being able to gank with no penalty.

Again, when it was all end-game content and on the edges of the bubble... meh. Still bad, but not in everyones face. And they've had two years to realized this is dumb, didn't do anything, and now they're pushing all these new players to "Save Sol!" and blam... they are going to have bad experiences.

It's sad that so much frustration could be easily fixed and they are totally oblivious to it.

 

[Vlad plus]

you can turn on the police again immediately after the ganker attacked you

 

[Koma Pahu]

I feel your frustration. I don’t know how many messages I saw telling people to turn report crimes off at the weekend.

It’s so easy for someone to fly into your line of fire, especially with the lag atm, and with so many newer players trying out AX I’m sure there’s a better solution to the current situation.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

you can turn on the police again immediately after the ganker attacked you

Thanks, but I didn't get ganked. I merely indicated that being forced to turn report crimes off makes their ganking less punished (no bounty, notoriety, etc.) My problem was someone else having report on, grazing them with fire (a fine, not a bounty) and being locked out of station services (normal stations will allow you to pay fines and regain access)

I feel your frustration. I don’t know how many messages I saw telling people to turn report crimes off at the weekend.

It’s so easy for someone to fly into your line of fire, especially with the lag atm, and with so many newer players trying out AX I’m sure there’s a better solution to the current situation.

Yep. As I stated, this and incredibly dumb oversight on their part. If the area was labelled Anarchy, no issues - other than gankers won't suffer C&P punishment (which they don't care about anyway). If the station would allow you to clear fines (like all normal stations do), this would allow you to regain access for accidentally hitting friendly ships. If you actually kill a friendly ship and get a bounty... that's where I can see people being divided. If you can pay off bounties right at that station (something you can't even do with Interstellar Factors in the system you get the bounty), that makes gankers lives easier the same... more so than if the area is anarchy.

I'm fine with it going anarchy, being able to pay off everything, or enabling the ability to pay off fines. The last should not be controversial and is ONLY an issue because they disable the Admin contact at AX CZ settlements. If you can give out missions, you can have someone clear my dang fines so I can repair my ship and get back to defending your settlement/station.

I would urge FDEV to fix this, but it's all probably going to be over soon anyway. Congrats on tarnishing your big finale, FDEV.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Well, my experience in AX has been people who actually purposefully attacked and destroyed me within the starport that we were defending, the same person multiple times until I blocked them. Therefore, I will certainly NOT turn "report crimes" off.

If you don't hit others intentionally, I suggest you look where you are shooting.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Well, my experience in AX has been people who actually purposefully attacked and destroyed me within the starport that we were defending, the same person multiple times until I blocked them. Therefore, I will certainly NOT turn "report crimes" off.

If you don't hit others intentionally, I suggest you look where you are shooting.

So long as you’re also looking where you’re going and don’t get in the way of other people’s shots, I’m sure we’ll all be good.

 

[GroG79]

Well, my experience in AX has been people who actually purposefully attacked and destroyed me within the starport that we were defending, the same person multiple times until I blocked them. Therefore, I will certainly NOT turn "report crimes" off.

If you don't hit others intentionally, I suggest you look where you are shooting.

So you can expect me to ram you off the landing pad and perhaps to the rebuy screen when you are trying to repair. If you are the cause of my fine because you did not turn crimes off. No excuses.

Plz Turn of Crimes! You are free to block any ganker.
Keeping crimes on does nothing. The police will not enter a CZ to rescue you. Neither does ganker care

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

So you can expect me to ram you off the landing pad and perhaps to the rebuy screen when you are trying to repair. If you are the cause of my fine because you did not turn crimes off. No excuses.

Then you are not only incompetent and shouldn't be trusted with a weapon, but also have character issues and the proof that "report crimes on" is needed.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

If you don't hit others intentionally, I suggest you look where you are shooting.

Yes, because with all those ships flying around erratically chasing Thargoids, accidents aren't going to happen. /sarcasm

Plus almost all of us were firing Beam Lasers modded for Long Range and Thermal Vent ... so you have about 5 ships, from all different angles hitting a target 3 to 6 km away. Yeah, no possibility someone might stray into the line of fire.

Again, the person who hit me (and I had report crimes off) must've been a minor hit, because I never noticed it... nick with a beam laser, or stray pellets from Shard cannon... who can say. I only noted that now there was a red Chieftain on my radar. He wasn't ganking, he was fighting like the rest of us. And because I had report off, he was able to land and repair. Later, I must've hit someone with a stray shot (who did have report on) because I was locked out of the station.

Further, if you had a situation like this anywhere else in the game, when you landed at said station you could pay the fine for the accidental damage. I'm pretty sure it never escalates to a full bounty until you kill them.

So I find your comments narrow minded and self righteous. Plus, as others pointed out, the gankers aren't going to care about the bounty anyway.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

[...]
So I find your comments narrow minded and self righteous.

You are the one demanding from others that they forego what little protection NPC's do offer, and what little penalty they can impose on sneaky assassins.

Plus, as others pointed out, the gankers aren't going to care about the bounty anyway.

They care about it for the same reason you do.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

You are the one demanding from others that they forego what little protection NPC's do offer, and what little penalty they can impose on sneaky assassins.


They care about it for the same reason you do.

sigh No, no they don't. I'm trying to engage in AX combat with other random players and have fun. I frequently need to land at the base to repair and rearm. ONE SINGLE FINE and that is impossible. A ganker is just going to blow up as many people as they can and leave (or get killed).

As a counterpoint, this is an issue I NEVER saw in Solo. The NPCs don't get in the way (like they can in resource sites (which is why I always went Hazres)). I'm sure I've even grazed them, but they don't give me fines.

Further, this is a problem you could run into in a private group. One person screws up (doesn't turn off reporting), one grazing shot or collision, no repairs for you.

This is a DEV FAILURE in that this shouldn't be an issue in AX CZs. You should be able to leave "report crimes on" to penalize (not that they care) gankers. The fact that this small work around we can do helps other PVE players and isn't going to matter to gankers shows just how paranoid you are.

I never thought I'd say this to anyone, but with your attitude, I say "Go play in solo." If I ran into you in one of these open instances and you locked me out repairing, I would immediately ignore the Thargoids and spend all my ammo and effort into blowing you up (and I have never done PVP outside of beta testing)!

P.S. I'm not the only one asking people to do this! Heck, I didn't even think about it until I constantly saw the messages coming in from others WHILE I WAS DOING SOLO INSTANCES! So I made sure it was off when I decided to "risk going in open." You should play in solo. And if I ever run across you in open, the bounties and notoriety I gain from blowing you up (if I succeed) will be worth it. And that's coming from someone who hates PvP.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

A ganker is just going to blow up as many people as they can and leave (or get killed).

They want to keep doing that, and can't if they can't repair.

This is a DEV FAILURE in that this shouldn't be an issue in AX CZs. You should be able to leave "report crimes on" to penalize (not that they care) gankers. The fact that this small work around we can do helps other PVE players and isn't going to matter to gankers shows just how paranoid you are.

Paranoia would imply that they aren't there. Yet we both agree that gankers exist, both of us from first-hand experience I guess.

I never thought I'd say this to anyone, but with your attitude, I say "Go play in solo."

I play in the mode I want, and set my settings in the game as I want them. It is completely, utterly out of place of you to suggest you had any right to say anything about that.

Yes, you can request whatever you want. But a request is defined by the requestee being able to refuse it.

If I ran into you in one of these open instances and you locked me out repairing, I would immediately ignore the Thargoids and spend all my ammo and effort into blowing you up

You therefore just prove the point that leaving the crime reporting on is required.

It is also telling. My conclusion from your statement must be that you are, in fact, a ganker who wants to lure people into making ganking easier for you with threads such as this.

P.S. I'm not the only one asking people to do this!

Too often I have seen groups of people doing stupid things to care for that. Either your position is justifiable, or not. That is a matter of stringency of argumentation, not votes.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

They want to keep doing that, and can't if they can't repair.

I seriously doubt they are going to do that in the CZ where they've been targeting ships. They would be an easy target as they tried to dock.

Paranoia would imply that they aren't there. Yet we both agree that gankers exist, both of us from first-hand experience I guess.

Oh, I agree gankers exist. I have NOT personally experienced them in AX CZs. I have seen the messages from others while I was in the same area, but in Solo. In all cases, the other players shot down or drove off the gankers.

I play in the mode I want, and set my settings in the game as I want them. It is completely, utterly out of place of you to suggest you had any right to say anything about that.

Yes, you can request whatever you want. But a request is defined by the requestee being able to refuse it.

Oh for the love of Mike... Do you understand the real world concepts of "driving defensively" and common courtesy? Yes, you're being an AX CZ Open Karen because you don't care about how you may inconvenience others. Their major annoyance is worth the pittance of punishment your "Report Crimes" will cause a ganker. Honestly, your attitude is more in line with the gankers at this point (e.g. "I do what I want!").

You therefore just prove the point that leaving the crime reporting on is required.

It is also telling. My conclusion from your statement must be that you are, in fact, a ganker who wants to lure people into making ganking easier for you with threads such as this.

Ok, this is actually funny. I was venting. For that situation to actually happen, we would have to be in the same AX CZ, you'd have to have reporting on, I'd have to graze you and get fined, I'd have to realize that happened and that it was my hitting you that triggered it, and then when I ask you to turn it off so others don't run into the same issue, you petulantly refuse. Odds of all this happening... zero.

[Edit: Important note - your COVAS is screwed up in Thargoid areas, so it doesn't always give you audio warnings when you do something (e.g. hit someone with stray fire, Thargoid's fire energy pulse) so it's that much easier to make mistakes in the chaos of combat]

In the one time I had this happen to me, I still have no idea who I grazed. Further, I am not mad at them. They may not have been aware of the issue or may have forgotten they still had reporting on.

The whole point of this thread is that the situation itself is dumb that it even happens and that people should voluntarily turn reporting off to help prevent the problem.

As for your conclusion: it's laughable. For one thing, you'll find no evidence of me be a ganker on the forums and plenty of me being against non-consensual PvP, not be interested in PvP myself, against PP being forced to Open only (which the PvPers want), etc. More to the point, in this very thread I inadvertently provided evidence that I'm not a ganker by highlighting my limited knowledge of the details of C&P. A ganker would know that you'll move beyond a fine to a bounty long before you kill the other person; it starts with fines and then switches to the bounty. I only re-realized that last night when hunting enemy NPC PowerPlay ships. I saw the fines change to bounties long before I finisehd them off. But sure, you go ahead and be paranoid. You clearly don't have any idea of how the gankers actually think/play as they do not care one whit about bounties, fines, or notoriety. Feel free to search the forums for any number of threads on the Crime and Punishment system, where may players want it adjusted because there is no real penalty for gankers.

Too often I have seen groups of people doing stupid things to care for that. Either your position is justifiable, or not. That is a matter of stringency of argumentation, not votes.

I've laid out the situation and how report crimes in AX CZ is a known issue and how most people want it off. That you can't understand the inconvience this causes for them for the pittance of a penalty you'll inflict on ganker is your issue.

Again, I'm not mad at all at the person who caused my incovenience. It only happened once. More over, I'm glad I had reporting off so that other chieftain, which nicked me (and was then conning Red) wasn't penalized and was able to repair because I had reporting off.

To sum this up, I tend to play in solo (I'm sure less the 1% of the 10000+ hours I've been playing have been in Open) because "Hell is other people." More specifically, I tend to be in solo (not even PGs) because:

1. I don't want extended waits for docking. This can be exacerbated if a player docks at the only available pad (settlement or outpost) and then goes afk.
2. A parallel 2 #1, I don't want to deal with extended docking queues, like what can happen at the Rescue ships
3. I don't want other players conflicting with my missions at Odyssey settlements. If we both have a restore/shutdown mission, only one of us can complete it without resetting the instance.
4. Don't want to be someone else's PvP content at the expense of me failing a mission (e.g. they blow me up while I'm hauling something).

But lest you think I'm being purely selfish, the converse is true. I don't want to be outside of solo because:

1. I don't want others to be stuck waiting because I went afk while docked - especially if it's an extended abscence due to a biobreak or dealing with the cats.
2. I don't want to hold up others in a long queue nor risk going out of turn.
3. I don't want to mess up others Odyssey missions
4. No real corollary here since I'm not into PvP

I only ventured into these Open AX CZs recently because I wanted to see other players battling the Thargoids too. It was fun. I may also go into open soon when doing PP mischief because, in addition to the fun of seeing other players, I have zero worries about ganking. I have a 100% rebuy discount for ANY kind of death in my power's territory and 100% rebuy discount if killed by other PP ship anywhere.

But sure, think I'm a ganker and everyone else is wrong and you're right. Whatever. The only thing I apologize for is starting my initial response to you in a more incendiary manner than I normally would. You hit a nerve with everything going on in RL. The people in my country just elected the "leopards that will your face" while claming they won't actual eat your face. Now some of them are panicking because they realize the leopards are going to eat their face. Either way, I'm screwed. I'm tired of dealing with people who only care about what they want and only about getting ahead themselves rather than trying to help everyone. Your attitude towards the AX CZ situation seems to be in line with this and... I've had enough.

I'm not going to respond to you any more about this. This isn't a "I need the last word." Feel free to reply to this saying "I got the last word" if you wish. I'll reply to anyone else that has opinions on this subject, but other than that, I'm done. Besides, it looks like it's just going to be Titan combat now and that is done best in private wings of 4 or less (due to scaling). So the issue is moot.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Wall of text from a ganker not read.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Well today I discovered that someone flying their Krait straight between your AX missiles and the Titan core results in their destruction, your bounty and respawning well away from the action in a ship with a poor jump range.

But Y’know best you keep the report crimes on just in case there’s a ganker around