Back to the future: Braben, Roberts, Murray, and their space sim video game visions.

When you think about it, there are a great many similarities between Braben, Roberts and Murray with their 'visions' for the ultimate space sim.

All three developer heads were essentially lying to people from the beginning of their campaigns, by making impossible promises that they knew they could not keep, in order to secure funding, be it through crowdfunding or pre sales.

The differences are in the execution of their business plans, and the effectiveness of these business plans. Braben, I think, may have felt it necessary to talk about the possibility of walking around your ship and stations, simply because this was a feature being offered by the rival project Star Citizen at that time. Really, if you think about it, being able to walk around your spaceship and stations in the game of Elite Dangerous simply doesn't fit with the way things are in the game. There is the problem of the limited gameplay factor that would be added to the game not justifying the sheer volume of work required to create these virtual assets when you take into account how the game has developed over time. What we do in the game, the actions we have become accustomed to would be made really very tiring and tedious if they were made unnecessarily longer by for example; having to go to the bar and talk to some guy to get that black box retrieval mission, every, single time.

Elite, is a game that even after 5 years since it's inception at the beginning of it's development, it still in development. Star Citizen, also, is still in development after all this time, and of course surprise surprise, so is the No Mans Sky project, long after it was released. These are the similarities. These are the realities of video game development. It takes a long time to develop a computer game, and the more personnel you have, the quicker the game can be completed, but the higher your costs will be, even as game consumers we all know these things, but we are still going to be fooled when we don't know the difference between what's possible and what is impossible or highly impractical. All of this is simply the result of the Kickstarter funding system (or pre-order hype system) being applied to video game making which it may not be best suited to, for several reasons. One, the backer does not receive value for money for their purchase. Two, when it comes to contemporary video games, as we should already know, they will take a long time to be finished, and this is a major inconvenience. If you just backed a guy who designed a custom pack of Bicycle playing cards, then you get your product delivered within a few months or even weeks. If you backed some elaborate space based board game that reaches all it's stretch goals you might well have to wait a few more months for them to deliver your game, because of expected production bottlenecks which the tiny independent production company can't do anything about. But if you back a video game then you got to wait years for them to deliver. It simply isn't the best way to develop a computer game, for the consumer.

Having said this, I do think that the way Frontier Developments have gone about producing their game, and how they have involved the player base and backers, over this time is very commendable, and I can't help thinking that back in 2012 running a Kickstarter campaign would have seemed to be the most appropriate option to fund a game project because of it's buzz factor. In contrast, Star Citizen is clearly a victim of it's own success, and whether it will ever come together as a coherent functional game is difficult to say. I think perhaps the bar may need to be lowered when it comes to expectations, and the games' success will be dependent on whether or not the player base can make the necessary adjustments to adapt. No Mans Sky also, is clearly a victim of the overwhelming success of it's marketing campaign, brought about by the unnatural and highly unusual intervention of a major publisher, which we can all see had a large bearing on Murray's behavior during his numerous promotional interviews. It's Murray that gets all the grief for lying about features that he knew would be impossible to have ready for the publishers release deadline. Braben on the other hand still has some of us players asking for their space legs, and Roberts can probably do no wrong in the eyes of his most staunch supporters.

It appears as though NMS is now making a comeback, or at the very least, those pre order backers that did not ask for a refund, and decided to stick with the game to see how things would go are finding that they are slowly getting the features that they were promised, the game is fleshing out. Murray's development team are finally delivering on their promises and the game is more like a real game with more to do.
ED, I feel has reached it's peak about now, we have most of the features we are going to get, but still a few years of development time to go, so much more yet to come. What, at release genuinely was a mile wide inch deep game, now feels far more like a full game, with that spit and polish. And the good thing is, there is still more content to come. SC, I would hazard a guess, is going to get picked up cheap when the bubble finally bursts. And the publisher is going to have to remould the game, perhaps discarding much of Roberts' vision in order to create a functioning game, that players will enjoy. It will be painful, but necessary, if those awesome assets are to be saved.

Ok, that's my 1000 word submission. The question I want to pose you guys is, should I read crap like this out and record my voice to put on Youtube? Because I've got a very stupid voice, and why would anyone want to hear my stupid voice?

-Si
 
The great advantage the 1980/1990s space games had was that there was no mainstream Internet access for the general public. Therefore the Internet didn't affect video games or video game development negativily.

This not only applies to Internet-powered funding schemes like Kickstarter (which are completely unsuitable for sustainable video game funding), but also to game features themselves. Both Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen are heavily limited by the fact, that they need to have a shared "Internet universe". Sean Murray OTOH, who designed a single player space game, immediately faced a huge backlash, because it didn't have that shared Internet universe, everyone was automatically assuming was in there.

Now we face the fact, that with the current age distributed computing over the current age Internet it is not possible to realize those space game visions. That is the reason why every 2010s space game going that route is so limited or heavily struggling (like Star Citizen with its 9 fps).

So first game developers need to get over the "always connected" hype and think about how connectivity can be added to a game in a useful and enhancing way instead of limiting a game around the constraints of the network. And of course do not promise things, which are impossible with current age technology.
 
All three developer heads were essentially lying to people from the beginning of their campaigns, by making impossible promises that they knew they could not keep, in order to secure funding, be it through crowdfunding or pre sales.

Brabens been largely truthful.
Murray...AFAICS...largely got caught out by a publisher who pushed him into releasing too early and the fact he is not experienced at PR.
Roberts....yeah. Roberts has lied time and time again.

Braben, I think, may have felt it necessary to talk about the possibility of walking around your ship and stations, simply because this was a feature being offered by the rival project Star Citizen at that time.

Nope. Such a feature has been a "dream" for years. To be able to explore the ships and stations as well as space was talked about even as far back as the original Elite. It's only in the past decade or so that such a position has become viable.

Really, if you think about it, being able to walk around your spaceship and stations in the game of Elite Dangerous simply doesn't fit with the way things are in the game.

FD and Braben are well aware of that. That is why they keep saying adding space legs would be like creating an entirely new game.

Because they are right. It would be.

Chris Roberts doesn't seem to realise this.

There is the problem of the limited gameplay factor that would be added to the game not justifying the sheer volume of work required to create these virtual assets when you take into account how the game has developed over time. What we do in the game, the actions we have become accustomed to would be made really very tiring and tedious if they were made unnecessarily longer by for example; having to go to the bar and talk to some guy to get that black box retrieval mission, every, single time.

Case in point.....;)

Elite, is a game that even after 5 years since it's inception at the beginning of it's development, it still in development.

No. It isn't.

This argument is nothing more than trying to draw a false equivalency between developing additional content for a game...be it DLC or an XPac....and developing the game.

ED has gone through a full development cycle. It has a working, functional engine. It has undergone design and testing. It has gameplay, gameloops, game mechanics.

So has NMS.

Star Citizen has not. Star Citizen hasn't even managed to get its engine up and running properly, still needs to do basic design work, still needs to implement basic features and more.

ED is not in development.
NMS is not in development.

SC ****IS**** in development.

ED and NMS are both being expanded upon with DLC and XPacs. That DLC and XPacs are being developed does not mean the base game is still in development.

And if you want to defend Star Citizens glacially slow development, there is a thread already in existence.

These are the realities of video game development. It takes a long time to develop a computer game, and the more personnel you have, the quicker the game can be completed, but the higher your costs will be, even as game consumers we all know these things, but we are still going to be fooled when we don't know the difference between what's possible and what is impossible or highly impractical.

You'll find many here on these forums have first hand experience of development...and yes, even some with experience of game development.

We've heard these excuses before and we already know they are, for the most part, bogus.

Reality dictates that what one team can do, another can emulate.

No Man Sky was developed...from scratch....in less than three years, with a team of about 12 people at a cost of about $10 million dollars. That includes developing the game engine...from scratch.

Save for multiplayer support and graphical style, it currently offers just about everything Star Citizen plans to include.

Everything. FPS...aliens....resource gathering...base construction....vehicles....space flight and combat....more.

CIG have 40 times the staff and 18 times the budget. They can't even get the engine working properly. After 6 years instead of 3.

Now sure, you can palm off some of the differences on "fidelity". But not $170 million of a difference.

But I would guess you are trying to convince yourself of this, that SC is in a good spot, more than anyone here.

Hey....we all wish SC well. I look forward to the time it is released.

It's just that most here don't believe it will be released as promised because...let's face...much of what CIG has promised is mutually exclusive with each other so hard choices WILL need to be made, even if the game were to get a full release.

And that seems unlikely.

In contrast, Star Citizen is clearly a victim of it's own success,

No. Its a victim of gross mismanagement and managerial incompetence. There is little that CIG has promised that cannot be achieved.....except CIG has had 6 years to do so and keeps failing.

The engine is shot. Basic design work is not done. Fundamental game development processes are not being followed. CIGs stated priorities are wonky.


Braben on the other hand still has some of us players asking for their space legs, and Roberts can probably do no wrong in the eyes of his most staunch supporters.

Braben has at least demonstrated a knowledge and understanding of the problems inherent in adding space legs and is continually downplaying them.

Roberts is hyping everything in SC far past the point it can be delivered.

SC, I would hazard a guess, is going to get picked up cheap when the bubble finally bursts.

SC....as far as I can see....is dead. At this point, unless the fabled developer version that apparently gets trotted out everytime a journalist shows up is real, the game appears to be in so much technical trouble that the only way CIG can really hope to deliver on their promises would be to start from scratch.

Much of what they have planned is doable....it just requires a game engine capable of handling it. And that they don't have, nor do they have any chance of creating one while they continue on their current path.

CIG would need to stop.....rework/rebuild/recreate the engine and then add everything else once that engine work is done.

From what I hear, they don't have the staff necessary to do even a fraction of what is needed.

No publisher is going to touch Star Citizen if the game is in that state.

The question I want to pose you guys is, should I read crap like this out and record my voice to put on Youtube? Because I've got a very stupid voice, and why would anyone want to hear my stupid voice?

-Si
Can't be worse than some of the other vids around.
 
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