Bad Idea for the Week: Armor that Reduces Mass and Hitpoints

[sandkid]

Yep, you read that right. Idea is very simple and probably - as a result - very game breaking.
Particularly for the magic-mass Anaconda, but I digress.

Currently, ships come with a stock 'hull' that can then be upgraded for more hull hitpoints, resistances, and the like. We can then also install additional hull modules in military (or standard) slots. That's all well and good. Engineering allows us to modify modules to drop hull mass - typically for exploration, but also for added agility and the like - with the 'lore' reason being you removed components or replaced them with lighter materials.

The idea is simple: a grade (or several) of hull packages that reduce mass and reduce hitpoints. The purpose being, again, to either create a more agile (albeit flimsier) craft or to cut down costs on fuel for jumping and adding distance. Balancing would be a doozy, for PvP as much as PvE and exploration, but hey!

Now your corvette can jump 60ly easy. It'll just get smoked if those shields drop by a class 1 railgun.
(That happens already, but you know what I mean.)

This wouldn't shift the 'balance' of the ship lineup in any way as it just means Condas and DBXs can go even farther. Where it could really cause a stir is in PvP...because we all know FDLs turn too slow as it is, and my Adder clearly needs to be able to do fifteen flips instead of five when darting out of a busy station with FA off. Jokes aside, we're talking percentages and that can create some serious stratification (as seen in other engineering shenanigans). So it might be better for this 'module' to not affect hull mass (and hull) by percentage but instead straight values. That would help keep the pack of ships in a given meta closer together.

That's my bad idea!

 

[RetroPaladin]

Base hull is the lightest one, it cannot be any lighter - because it provides guaranteed integrity, impermeability, radiation protection etc.
"Light" variant of engineering is actually making ship lighter and less healthy(except light hull which cannot be any lighter)

 

[sandkid]

Base hull is the lightest one, it cannot be any lighter - because it provides guaranteed integrity, impermeability, radiation protection etc.
"Light" variant of engineering is actually making ship lighter and less healthy(except light hull which cannot be any lighter)

Exactly. So I figured, why not? Let's intentionally compromise ship hull integrity.

We already do so to the FSD with neutron boosting, and lasers with overheating. Elite Dangerous has a strong tradition for pushing ships beyond manufacturer specifications and safety thresholds. =D

 

[RetroPaladin]

compromise ship hull integrity

That will end by instant life support usage - 5 to 25 minutes of gameplay.
Didn't I mentioned space radiation - from which - base hull protects?

 

[sandkid]

That will end by instant life support usage - 5 to 25 minutes of gameplay.
Didn't I mentioned space radiation - from which - base hull protects?

Eh, getting super technical now. I mean...blown out canopies ought result in instant death, too, by that logic.

Somehow my Corvette's dual class 4 multicannons have a terrible time instantly obliterating the enemy pilot. Probably just a statistical fluke, I'm sure.

That said, let's go with your concern and make it a feature! Radiation leakage upon entering X distance of stellar bodies that emit it, requiring topping off life support or some other doo-dad. Realism is always a bonus. Except with the whole canopy thing. A lot of matches would end real quick otherwise.

 

[varonica]

Eh, getting super technical now. I mean...blown out canopies ought result in instant death, too, by that logic.

The flight suit is designed for that, the helmet automatically snaps shut when canopy breach happens, it's "literally" space suit, you can walk around on airless planets with it!

 

[Danieros]

I'd really like something like that. There are a few aspects of a ship we currently can't engineer or change in any way, and the hull mass is one of those.

 

[HRDiagram]

Eh, getting super technical now. I mean...blown out canopies ought result in instant death, too, by that logic.

Er... No?
The pilot is wearing the flight suit at all times. The whole aspect of the broken canopy, with subsequent loss of enhanced HUD and simulated sounds is one of the smartest features of the game, in fact

 

[RetroPaladin]

blown out canopies ought result in instant death

Completely not. Why ever exist life support module if not for this cases?

Life support module provide ultimate personal protection from incomes for specific amount of time - any damage, air loss, any radiation.

 

[sandkid]

Er... No?
The pilot is wearing the flight suit at all times. The whole aspect of the broken canopy, with subsequent loss of enhanced HUD and simulated sounds is one of the smartest features of the game, in fact

Sorry, there seems to be a miscommunication...

I'm not suggesting the blown canopy feature is borked or bad. What I was getting at in that original reply is that the space radiation the ship should protect you from exceeds the capabilities of the flight suit over an extended period (life support module perhaps maintains this shielding? Lore doesn't go into that sort of detail).

Point being...the original rebuttal was that compromising the ship hull should be lethal to the pilot based on this radiation. If so, a blown canopy's life support on makes sense if it provides for this radiation, not just oxygen, as we know the flight suit alone provides far more oxygen given EDO. All of which is to say...

That's getting super technical.

I always appreciate science/lore reasons for why a feature or idea should be questioned, but really...we compromise the safety features of many aspects of our ship. What's more, the hull of our ships - even the lightweight 'base' hull - can be compromised, we're just multiplying by zero when we do so. Creating hull packages that are lighter/weaker adds more depth to the ship loadout and could create some really fascinating/silly builds. As I said in OP, my chief concern would be the impact this has on PvP.

 

[DemiserofD]

My goodness, why are people so nit-picky and persnickety about this suggestion? It's not a bad idea.

I see no reason why reducing an Anaconda from 400 to 200 armor would instantly expose you to space, when an adder can start with half that much and still be fine.

 

[RetroPaladin]

adder can start with half that much and still be fine

Maybe because of Adder is smaller, huh?

Armor points tells nothing about ship's ability to protect from environment.
Like we said, light armor is the most basic armor which guaranteed protection, worse armor will be count as exposed and life support will work, like, for example, when canopy is broken and made ship open to dangers of space.
And yes, we have option to reduce armor points(for example by using some composite), but this will work only with advanced armors which grants extra environment protection, so reducing it didn't make any harm.

Suggestion is pointless since we already have this option.

 

[DemiserofD]

Maybe because of Adder is smaller, huh?

Armor points tells nothing about ship's ability to protect from environment.
Like we said, light armor is the most basic armor which guaranteed protection, worse armor will be count as exposed and life support will work, like, for example, when canopy is broken and made ship open to dangers of space.
And yes, we have option to reduce armor points(for example by using some composite), but this will work only with advanced armors which grants extra environment protection, so reducing it didn't make any harm.

Suggestion is pointless since we already have this option.

So the armor is specially formulated to redirect protection specifically around the pilot, while reducing weight and durability elsewhere. It achives this via meta alloys and guardian force fields.

Poof, perfect justification.

Seriously, if you have a problem with something, come up with an actual logical reason why it's bad, not just a magical finger wave saying it's impossible.

 

[RetroPaladin]

So the armor is specially formulated to redirect protection specifically around the pilot, while reducing weight and durability elsewhere. It achives this via meta alloys and guardian force fields.

Poof, perfect justification.

Seriously, if you have a problem with something, come up with an actual logical reason why it's bad, not just a magical finger wave saying it's impossible.

Wut? Don't include any "Strength of materials" science here, I'm talking about general things. Like protection in general. We don't have any options in game to adjust specific parts of armor, we have general hull, not "cockpit hull" or "bottom hull".

Also, we didn't have meta-alloyed armor in game and guardian force fields too.
What are you talking about?

I gave you the simpliest answer already - game have option to reduce mass.
I repeat, game already have option to reduce mass.

 

[DemiserofD]

Wut? Don't include any "Strength of materials" science here, I'm talking about general things. Like protection in general. We don't have any options in game to adjust specific parts of armor, we have general hull, not "cockpit hull" or "bottom hull".

Also, we didn't have meta-alloyed armor in game and guardian force fields too.
What are you talking about?

I gave you the simpliest answer already - game have option to reduce mass.
I repeat, game already have option to reduce mass.

The game does not currently have options to reduce your ship's inherent Mass. That's what this proposal is suggesting be changed. The new armor would reduce both your Hull integrity as well as your ships weight.

When someone is suggesting that something be added to the game, you can't use the fact that it doesn't exist in the game as justification for why it shouldn't be added to the game.

 

[RetroPaladin]

reduce your ship's inherent Mass

Bruh.
We have hull and integrity - exposed armor and "skeleton" of ship. The most basic armor is guarantee of ship didn't crash into pieces on another trip to the planet or pilot to be burned by radiation of near star. We can engeneer that basic armor, let's imagine, by some hi-techy composite, but still its overall mass is equal to base light armor. Heavier armor will reduce its mass by engineering - again, imagine - by replacing the base layer of those armors.
We have inner modules - mandatory modules , i should note - which give to the ship,again, mandatory mass. And we can engineer them to reduce mass - this will end by improving thruster speeds, FSD jumps, agility etc resulted by reduced mass.

I repeat n-th time - game already have option to reduce mass. With the results which thread's author really desire and, invisibly for him, get - because he didn't see the whole picture.

 

[DemiserofD]

Bruh.
We have hull and integrity - exposed armor and "skeleton" of ship. The most basic armor is guarantee of ship didn't crash into pieces on another trip to the planet or pilot to be burned by radiation of near star. We can engeneer that basic armor, let's imagine, by some hi-techy composite, but still its overall mass is equal to base light armor. Heavier armor will reduce its mass by engineering - again, imagine - by replacing the base layer of those armors.
We have inner modules - mandatory modules , i should note - which give to the ship,again, mandatory mass. And we can engineer them to reduce mass - this will end by improving thruster speeds, FSD jumps, agility etc resulted by reduced mass.

I repeat n-th time - game already have option to reduce mass. With the results which thread's author really desire and, invisibly for him, get - because he didn't see the whole picture.

Like I said, if you're looking for a canonical justification, it's via meta Alloys and guardian force fields. Poof, problem solved!

Seriously though, you are aware that ships have an inherent Mass stat, right? At present, you cannot reduce that stat by any means.

 

[RetroPaladin]

 

[RetroPaladin]

canonical justification, it's via meta Alloys and guardian force fields.

Please point me to the Meta-Alloyed armor and Guardian Force Fields.

 

[DemiserofD]

Please point me to the Meta-Alloyed armor and Guardian Force Fields.

That's... That's the whole point. It's a suggestion for new content.

This is the suggestions forum, after all.

That said, meta Alloy hull reinforcements, and guardian Shield reinforcements, both already exist.