Baird's tapir missing North America tag

[Aramar]

I've just noticed another animal missing a tag. Baird's tapirs are found in Mexico, as stated in the zoopedia, so it should have the North America tag too. I know Frontier is confused about Central America animals and some of them appear under South/Central America while others apper under North America, but Mexico is clearly North America, so the tag is missing.

Link to the issue tracker: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/43792

 

[ElectricMonk]

Not an issue IMO. Geopolitically, all of Mexico is considered a single unit which sits in 'North America'. Ecologically, though, southern Mexico (where Baird's tapir is found) sits in the Central American bioregion. Since the 'continent' tag of species in-game is only relevant in terms of the plants they like, the Tapir is better without the North American tag.

 

[Veah]

I will just quote myself from another topic: Baird's tapir should have the tag "Neotropical".

Maybe the solution for this recurrent topic of animals (giant millipede, puff adder, moose) lacking or not belonging to some continents would be to get completely rid of the continent classification, and replace it with biogeographical realms.
That way, all those South American animals with some range in Central America would be just Neotropical, puff adder would be Afrotropical (which includes southern Arabia), and so on. I mean, that's the reason biogeographical realms were made, because continents are not the best way to represent animal ranges.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Not an issue IMO. Geopolitically, all of Mexico is considered a single unit which sits in 'North America'. Ecologically, though, southern Mexico (where Baird's tapir is found) sits in the Central American bioregion. Since the 'continent' tag of species in-game is only relevant in terms of the plants they like, the Tapir is better without the North American tag.

False. It lives in Central America, which is by definition North America. It is incorrect in the game, and thus needs to be changed.

 

[ElectricMonk]

What did I say that was false? The Central American bioregion sits in the neotropical realm, which includes South America, not North America. Ecologically Central America and Souhern Mexico have more in common with South Anerica than North America.

 

[Aramar]

My opinion is that the game has tags and filters that correspond with the geographical continents (which is a much simpler concept) instead of bioregions so that a general audience can understand them. Remember that this is a game for kids too, not a game only for zoo professionals. So if Frontier decided to use geographical tags, they should use them the same way for all the animals in the game. Otherwise, they should change all the continent tags and replace them for bioregion tags.

 

[paul78]

I have to agree with @ElectricMonk even tho Central America is considered North America I prefer the tapir stay the way it is. Really not that big of a deal. When I think North America it’s hard not to think of Canada and the US compared to South and Central America because the climates resemble each other so much.

 

[ElectricMonk]

My opinion is that the game has tags and filters that correspond with the geographical continents (which is a much simpler concept) instead of bioregions so that a general audience can understand them. Remember that this is a game for kids too, not a game only for zoo professionals. So if Frontier decided to use geographical tags, they should use them the same way for all the animals in the game. Otherwise, they should change all the continent tags and replace them for bioregion tags.

There’s a balance between accuracy, gameplay and accessibility. Since continents generally line up pretty well with continents, there ok to use but realms would be a better designator from a ecological point of view. As with many things in game Frontier have elected to strike a particular balance that may not be optimal for some people, but probably works better for others. The problem with this approach is that is leads to more inconsistencies (see, for e.g., climate, taxonomy, etc.) than a more technically correct alternative but it probably does lead to a more accessible game in the end.

 

[DrBurrito]

There’s a balance between accuracy, gameplay and accessibility. Since continents generally line up pretty well with continents, there ok to use but realms would be a better designator from a ecological point of view. As with many things in game Frontier have elected to strike a particular balance that may not be optimal for some people, but probably works better for others. The problem with this approach is that is leads to more inconsistencies (see, for e.g., climate, taxonomy, etc.) than a more technically correct alternative but it probably does lead to a more accessible game in the end.

The problem is, other Central American animals in the game have the 'North America' tag, including ones that don't have a range in Mexico, so that creates consistency issues when the Baird's tapir doesn't have it. In fact the Baird's tapir should have the 'North America' tag before most other Neotropical species that already have it, due to its existence in Mexico (which is both geopolitically and geographically in North America). Even the Colombian white-faced capuchin has the 'North America tag', a species that isn't even present in Central America, as its range lies east of the Panama Canal. North American tropical plant assets also have the 'North America' tag.

In addition, the game has a custom definition for its South/Central American animals with a tag of the same name (South/Central America). For this reason, I think Neotropical species found only in South or Central America shouldn't be given the 'North America' tag. This tag should be assigned for Neotropical species only if they are present in Mexico, the Caribbean or South Florida.

I had made a thread on the continent tagging inconsistencies (mostly for the Americas), but I had weighed in on all points of view, with more than one possible solution. This might have come across as vague to the team, so I am thinking about rewriting it picking one side.

Tags based on biogeographic realms would have been the best (e.g. Neotropical), but at this point we have to work with what we have and make sure it is consistent.

 

[ElectricMonk]

The problem is, other Central American animals in the game have the 'North America' tag, including ones that don't have a range in Mexico, so that creates consistency issues when the Baird's tapir doesn't have it. In fact the Baird's tapir should have the 'North America' tag before most other Neotropical species that already have it, due to its existence in Mexico (which is both geopolitically and geographically in North America). Even the Colombian white-faced capuchin has the 'North America tag', a species that isn't even present in Central America, as its range lies east of the Panama Canal. North American tropical plant assets also have the 'North America' tag.

In addition, the game has a custom definition for its South/Central American animals with a tag of the same name (South/Central America). For this reason, I think Neotropical species found only in South or Central America shouldn't be given the 'North America' tag. This tag should be assigned for Neotropical species only if they are present in Mexico, the Caribbean or South Florida.

I had made a thread on the continent tagging inconsistencies (mostly for the Americas), but I had weighed in on all points of view, with more than one possible solution. This might have come across as vague to the team, so I am thinking about rewriting it picking one side.

Tags based on biogeographic realms would have been the best (e.g. Neotropical), but at this point we have to work with what we have and make sure it is consistent.

I agree with most of this - there are lots of inconsistencies in the game and it’d be good if they were fixed. In the case of the tapir, though, I think that the tags it has are appropriate- IMO it’s the NA tags being given to other Central American species (e.g. the capuchin) that should be changed, rather than the tags for the tapir.

 

[DrBurrito]

I agree with most of this - there are lots of inconsistencies in the game and it’d be good if they were fixed. In the case of the tapir, though, I think that the tags it has are appropriate- IMO it’s the NA tags being given to other Central American species (e.g. the capuchin) that should be changed, rather than the tags for the tapir.

I agree that Central American species (and the one species that isn't even in Central America - the Colombian white-faced capuchin) should have their North America tags and filters removed because the game's tag is already named 'South and Central America', but species from the Caribbean, South Florida and Mexico should keep the tags, as these regions are North America in every sense of the word. Otherwise it would be like saying the 'Tropical' biome doesn't exist in North America. Plus it would require the removal of more than a dozen 'North America' tags from plant assets - Frontier had added these tags after feedback on their existence in Mexico, the Caribbean and South/Central Florida.

It would also require a ton of tag changes for both animals and plants in the Afrotropical, Indomalayan, Palearctic and Australiasian realms if the geographic continent definition for filters was to be replaced with biogeographic realms. Doing it only for the Americas would add more inconsistency issues to the game. However, like I've always advocated for, if it is still possible for the game to switch to a biogeographic realm tagging system altogether, I'd prefer it over any other method, but sadly I think it is too late into the game's lifecycle for that to happen. Although, I am still considering to incorporate the idea into a mod.

 

[Firestar97]

In my Opinion they should change the South American and Central American Tags to be separate instead of being merged into one

 

[yoav_r]

I've just noticed another animal missing a tag. Baird's tapirs are found in Mexico, as stated in the zoopedia, so it should have the North America tag too. I know Frontier is confused about Central America animals and some of them appear under South/Central America while others apper under North America, but Mexico is clearly North America, so the tag is missing.

View attachment 268453

Link to the issue tracker: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/43792

Similarly, the anteater has both south and north america in its tags, but is not considered a north american animal by the filter.

 

[Aramar]

Similarly, the anteater has both south and north america in its tags, but is not considered a north american animal by the filter.

No, it doesn't. It only has the South/Central America tag:

And the capuchin monkey has both tags when it shouldn't have the North America tag

So basically, this is a big mess

 

[yoav_r]

No, it doesn't. It only has the South/Central America tag:

View attachment 268850

And the capuchin monkey has both tags when it shouldn't have the North America tag
View attachment 268852

So basically, this is a big mess

The capuchin should have the NA tag, thanks to its inclusion in Panama and Costa rica.

And check the zoopedia of the anteater, it has NA listed in the continents section (on the page with the range map).

 

[Aramar]

The capuchin should have the NA tag, thanks to its inclusion in Panama and Costa rica.

And check the zoopedia of the anteater, it has NA listed in the continents section (on the page with the range map).

When I talk about tags, I mean the buttons that activate the filters for the plants and for the Zoopedia. If we start talking about the descriptions in the Zoopedia about the continents and the list of countries, there are many more animals that need fixing. One of the animals has South East Asia as a continent in the description instead of Asia, for example. There are many more errors. However, the buttons/tags are more important since they do have a use in the game for activating what plants can we use with the animal or the Zoopedia filters.

Also, I think Panama and Costa Rica are considered Central America, so they are included in the South/Central America tag, not in the North America tag (which comprises Mexico, USA, Canada and the Caribbean). Therefore, the Capuchin shouldn't have the North America (because the game puts Central America in the South, not in the North). If you want that the Capuchin has the North America tag, then the anteater and tapir should also have it. You can't apply different criteria for different animals.

 

[yoav_r]

When I talk about tags, I mean the buttons that activate the filters for the plants and for the Zoopedia. If we start talking about the descriptions in the Zoopedia about the continents and the list of countries, there are many more animals that need fixing. One of the animals has South East Asia as a continent in the description instead of Asia, for example. There are many more errors. However, the buttons/tags are more important since they do have a use in the game for activating what plants can we use with the animal or the Zoopedia filters.

Also, I think Panama and Costa Rica are considered Central America, so they are included in the South/Central America tag, not in the North America tag (which comprises Mexico, USA, Canada and the Caribbean). Therefore, the Capuchin shouldn't have the North America (because the game puts Central America in the South, not in the North). If you want that the Capuchin has the North America tag, then the anteater and tapir should also have it. You can't apply different criteria for different animals.

I think they both should have it, along the capuchin

 

[DrBurrito]

In my Opinion they should change the South American and Central American Tags to be separate instead of being merged into one

Similarly, the anteater has both south and north america in its tags, but is not considered a north american animal by the filter.

No, it doesn't. It only has the South/Central America tag:

View attachment 268850

And the capuchin monkey has both tags when it shouldn't have the North America tag
View attachment 268852

So basically, this is a big mess

I have included all possible solutions in my continent tagging issues thread, all of which would fix all consistency issues, difference being the design choice Frontier would like to go with.

The capuchin should have the NA tag, thanks to its inclusion in Panama and Costa rica.

And check the zoopedia of the anteater, it has NA listed in the continents section (on the page with the range map).

This species of capuchin is absent from Costa Rica and Western Panama (Central American side of Panama). According to outdated taxonomy, Panamanian and Colombian white-faced capuchins used to be one species, designated as separate subspecies, but now they are classified as separate species - the Zoopedia actually properly excluded Western Panama and Costa Rica from the distribution map but failed to exclude North America as a tag.

Geographically speaking, the Panama Canal is usually accepted as the separation between North and South America, therefore Central and South America. Therefore this particular species of capuchin isn't even present in Central America, therefore should only have the custom South/Central America tag the game has. You can find detailed explanation on the thread I linked.