Being allied with a faction should give you automatic level 1 access to their facilities

[Jmanis]

Isn't that basically the exact same thing? It's a low-level general access granted to you because you're a trusted ally. Exactly like level 1 access.

Nope. It's just a travel visa... Elite's permits just happen to have less nuance (unsurprisingly). Most countries are fairly open with access, but many are not and require a "Letter of Invitation", resident sponsors[1] etc.. In ED's case, that "resident sponsor" would be your mission contact.

A travel visa would not allow you access to arbitrary secure compounds within that nation[2].

[1] In several cases, that sponsor can be a tourism agency representative and such, because tourism's a thing, but it's not a general rule. COVID proves that pretty well.
[2] Granted, permits do not come and go based on who is in control of a system. That's because the whole permit system in ED is a bit of a kludge.

OT: That said, I personally hate ED's permit rules, and prefer the FE2/FFE implementation, where not holding a permit allowed still allowed you to jump to a system, you'd just get fined and hounded by authorities. Though similarly, getting a permit was simply through being sponsored by a mission provider.

I am King and Admiral.. Now open all doors...??

Except they're just honorary titles, so the superpower can assess your relative impact. A contractor to an organisation doesn't hold position within that organisation... though it does help to measure their performance relative to the roles and position levels within your organisation and even afford them to be addressed as such, even though doing so doesn't grant them any of the work conditions afforded to such roles.

 

[DemiserofD]

They do... that lowest level being 0.

That's nonsense and you know it. Anyone can do that, whereas only allies can get access to their restricted territory.

 

[DemiserofD]

Nope. It's just a travel visa... Elite's permits just happen to have less nuance (unsurprisingly). Most countries are fairly open with access, but many are not and require a "Letter of Invitation", resident sponsors[1] etc.. In ED's case, that "resident sponsor" would be your mission contact.

A travel visa would not allow you access to arbitrary secure compounds within that nation[2].

[1] In several cases, that sponsor can be a tourism agency representative and such, because tourism's a thing, but it's not a general rule. COVID proves that pretty well.
[2] Granted, permits do not come and go based on who is in control of a system. That's because the whole permit system in ED is a bit of a kludge.

OT: That said, I personally hate ED's permit rules, and prefer the FE2/FFE implementation, where not holding a permit allowed still allowed you to jump to a system, you'd just get fined and hounded by authorities. Though similarly, getting a permit was simply through being sponsored by a mission provider.

Except they're just honorary titles, so the superpower can assess your relative impact. A contractor to an organisation doesn't hold position within that organisation... though it does help to measure their performance relative to the roles and position levels within your organisation and even afford them to be addressed as such, even though doing so doesn't grant them any of the work conditions afforded to such roles.

You're talking about basically the exact same things. If you're going into a country that only allows you in with special permission(IE, North Korea), then the entire country is 'level 1 access', because not everyone can just wander in, and if you get caught, problems happen.

Exactly like level 1 access.

It doesn't matter that lots of people have it, what matters is that it's restricted at all.

All this argument is somewhat pointless, though. What matters is what it feels like ingame. Is there any gameplay reason you think this shouldn't happen?

 

[Jmanis]

You're talking about basically the exact same things. If you're going into a country that only allows you in with special permission(IE, North Korea), then the entire country is 'level 1 access', because not everyone can just wander in, and if you get caught, problems happen.

Exactly like level 1 access.

Absolutely not. But if sounds like you won't budge here so no point talking to a brick wall.

All this argument is somewhat pointless, though. What matters is what it feels like ingame. Is there any gameplay reason you think this shouldn't happen?

Like i already said, because it would be better implemented as a system where you expend rep for temporary access, as a result of putting the thumbscrews onto someone you have a good relationship with.

The gameplay reason to do it this way is to provide commoditisation of reputation, something the game sorely lacks and could be done for other things which i already mentioned.

The reasons this costs reputation is for the reasons I've already stated which you're intent on ignoring; it is completely nonsensical to provide wholesale access to low level secure facilities just because someone thinks you're alright. Any facility, be it corporate, military, government, has formal mechanisms and processes for access, even for VIPs and heads of state. The rep expense is to bulrush that process and get someone to arrange the access even if you have no need for it.

And for more gameplay, why stop at level 1? Turn it up harder, annoy your contact even more and get L3 access temporarily.

But no way should it just be a permanent, default thing. That's just a dead- end addition to an already dead- end system (and as I've mentioned, makes utterly no sense anyway)

 

[Lugh]

That's nonsense and you know it. Anyone can do that, whereas only allies can get access to their restricted territory.

Nah only people with a reason get access to their restricted territory.

Again even people in their faction who live on the settlements aren't even given level 1 if they don't need it.

 

[DemiserofD]

Nah only people with a reason get access to their restricted territory.

Again even people in their faction who live on the settlements aren't even given level 1 if they don't need it.

Presumably, those people aren't allied with their government like you are. Temp labor and the like. You have no idea if they work there or are just shuttled in from elsewhere.

 

[DemiserofD]

Absolutely not. But if sounds like you won't budge here so no point talking to a brick wall.

Like i already said, because it would be better implemented as a system where you expend rep for temporary access, as a result of putting the thumbscrews onto someone you have a good relationship with.

The gameplay reason to do it this way is to provide commoditisation of reputation, something the game sorely lacks and could be done for other things which i already mentioned.

The reasons this costs reputation is for the reasons I've already stated which you're intent on ignoring; it is completely nonsensical to provide wholesale access to low level secure facilities just because someone thinks you're alright. Any facility, be it corporate, military, government, has formal mechanisms and processes for access, even for VIPs and heads of state. The rep expense is to bulrush that process and get someone to arrange the access even if you have no need for it.

And for more gameplay, why stop at level 1? Turn it up harder, annoy your contact even more and get L3 access temporarily.

But no way should it just be a permanent, default thing. That's just a dead- end addition to an already dead- end system (and as I've mentioned, makes utterly no sense anyway)

That sounds like a good idea, but reputation doesn't currently work that way. I'd be down for a larger revamp of reputation down the line, but why wait for that to implement stuff now?

Especially since players are complaining about collecting engineering materials NOW. That's the main reason for this suggestion; to make collecting engineering materials a bit less of a chore.

 

[Lugh]

Presumably, those people aren't allied with their government like you are. Temp labor and the like. You have no idea if they work there or are just shuttled in from elsewhere.

.... You're also nothing more then temp labor. One of hundreds of other cmdrs they have dealings with.

 

[DemiserofD]

.... You're also nothing more then temp labor. One of hundreds of other cmdrs they have dealings with.

No, you're 'allied', and a member of the Pilot's Federation. Massive difference.

 

[Lugh]

No, you're 'allied', and a member of the Pilot's Federation. Massive difference.

yeah, your allied in the same way you're an emperor

 

[DemiserofD]

Regardless, you're still allied and they aren't. You're a pilot's federation member and they aren't. Those are incredibly important differences in this universe, and more than justify level 1 access.

 

[Jmanis]

Regardless, you're still allied and they aren't. You're a pilot's federation member and they aren't. Those are incredibly important differences in this universe, and more than justify level 1 access.

You keep saying things like "X justifies it". It really doesn't. You're talking about low-level secure facility access. Firstly, that would be controlled by the faction/base commander, unlike system permits which are controlled by the Pilot's Federation itself. Secondly, have a read of the lore around the PF and it's Commanders; they're not the sort of person anyone would want to give just freedom to access low level facilities.

Don't forget, you said:

If you WERE an ally - IE, a diplomatic envoy of a friendly foreign power - you absolutely would be allowed access to their lower security facilities.

Once again, you absolutely would not be granted access to lower security facilities in an automatic way like you're describing, in those circumstances[1]. But then you said:

All this argument is somewhat pointless, though. What matters is what it feels like ingame. Is there any gameplay reason you think this shouldn't happen?

So pick how you want to do this. You can't make statements like "it more than justifies level 1 access" but then shut down and ignore comments highlighting how it really doesn't.

Broad level 1 access to facilities is absolutely not justified by your reputation or status as a PF member. That's not how security access controls work, no matter what level, and you might as well be asking to snap a magical space pony into existence with a click of your heels with that sort of justification.

What does work is negotiation for temporary access when you have a relevant mission that requires you to attend a specific facility for a particular activity. Maybe you can request it as part of accepting a mission with no rep hit, and you happen to overlay other activities while you happen to have that access making it more tactical aspect of the game. Maybe in requesting it you can't get permission despite your rep, and that incurs a bonus to pay as you'll have to work around that. Maybe you can secure that access through a criminal contact instead. And maybe that access can go as high as level 3 on-demand, depending on what's going on (noting: that's already a thing for some missions).

But wholesale level 1 access to all facilites because you're allied and a member of the PF? Makes absolutely no sense and has no justificiation as mentioned, and misses numerous opportunities for new gameplay loops.

[1] Being that access controls are never afforded based on status, reputation or (relative) position, rather through necessity only. In FD, missions are the only way to establish necessity.

 

[DemiserofD]

You keep saying things like "X justifies it". It really doesn't. You're talking about low-level secure facility access. Firstly, that would be controlled by the faction/base commander, unlike system permits which are controlled by the Pilot's Federation itself. Secondly, have a read of the lore around the PF and it's Commanders; they're not the sort of person anyone would want to give just freedom to access low level facilities.

Don't forget, you said:

Once again, you absolutely would not be granted access to lower security facilities in an automatic way like you're describing, in those circumstances. But then you said:


So pick how you want to do this. You can't make statements like "it more than justifies level 1 access" but then shut down and ignore comments highlighting how it really doesn't.

Broad level 1 access to facilities is absolutely not justified by your reputation or status as a PF member. That's not how security access controls work, no matter what level, and you might as well be asking to snap a magical space pony into existence with a click of your heels with that sort of justification.

What does work is negotiation for temporary access when you have a relevant mission that requires you to attend a specific facility for a particular activity. Maybe you can request it as part of accepting a mission with no rep hit, and you happen to overlay other activities while you happen to have that access making it more tactical aspect of the game. Maybe in requesting it you can't get permission despite your rep, and that incurs a bonus to pay as you'll have to work around that. Maybe you can secure that access through a criminal contact instead. And maybe that access can go as high as level 3 on-demand, depending on what's going on (noting: that's already a thing for some missions).

But wholesale level 1 access to all facilites because you're allied and a member of the PF? Makes absolutely no sense and has no justificiation as mentioned, and misses numerous opportunities for new gameplay loops.

I didn't ignore you! I replied above!

The basic aspect being, coming up with a system of 'spending' rep is fairly complex and comprehensive and would logically have a lot of overlap with other systems. I don't think that's a bad thing, in fact I think it would be a GREAT thing, it would just be a lot bigger and take longer to do.

And people are complaining about engineering stuff right now. If they wanted a quick way to help players feel like they can improve their materials collection, this would be a great way to do it.

 

[Lugh]

If they wanted a quick way to help players feel like they can improve their materials collection, this would be a great way to do it.

yeah, when im blasting through a settlement for farming mats having level one access would change nothing about the path I take and wouldn't make anything easier.

 

[DemiserofD]

yeah, when im blasting through a settlement for farming mats having level one access would change nothing about the path I take and wouldn't make anything easier.

It might not for you, but for less experienced players it would. Features don't need to be for the most experienced players to still be useful.

 

[Lugh]

It might not for you, but for less experienced players it would. Features don't need to be for the most experienced players to still be useful.

less experienced? I have been playing with odyssey for maybe a week or two. The AI is so trash you can litterally run into a building gun a couple people down then run out and the guards just wander around like "omg did you hear that".