Beluga Buff?

[Kaybe]

Hi Frontier,

Yeah, it's me again. I know. I'm starting up a lot of threads lately. Sorry about that.

I was just wondering. Would it be possible to buff the Beluga a bit? Ever since the Orca got it's mass cut in half, and then the Dolphin got introduced, there seems to be very little reason to own a Beluga.

- The Beluga is by far the slowest of the three.
- The Beluga has *four* reserved internal slots.
- Due to the nature of VIP focused passenger mission board, there's no real advantage to having so many optional internals. Many VIPs are time sensitive, demanding, secretive, or have any number of other issues that making carrying many of them simultaneously impractical at best, impossible at worst (*especially* Secretive VIPs).
- In nearly every regard right now, the Orca is better than the Beluga for significantly less cost.
- Due it's weight, the Beluga HAS TO equip a class 6 shield. No choice here. On top of that, even a 6A can only output 222 MJ pre-engi. Compare this to the 321 MJ from an Orca's 5A shield.
- While the Beluga *could* equip a class 6 Fighter Hangar, it actually can't. It only has another usable class 6 slot, and pretty much everyone will drop a fuel scoop in there. So while the option is there, it's really quite impractical to do so.
- It heats up like a stuck pig on a spit.

My suggestions?

- Cut the weight by 25-35%. Yes, it's a really massive ship. But so is the Orca. And the Orca weighs as much as an Asp Explorer in a *significantly* larger frame. Even the dolphin, while small, weighs very little compared to many other small pad ship. So there is precedent here. Call it some sort of ultra light ship frame technology patented by Saud Kruger. Doing so would give the Beluga even more jump range and a boost in thruster speed. Still not fast by any stretch, but faster than it is currently. It would also boost it's shield strength. And speaking of which ...
- Give it three reserved slots instead of four so as to allow one of the class 5s to be used however people wish. This combined with the above mass drop would allow a class 5 shield to be placed in that slot. Or maybe a player can use a class 6 shield with a class 5 Hangar bay. The idea here is to allow more options and to allow players to be able to use fighters AND a fuel scoop at the same time, hence making fighter support practical like it is on all the other hangar capable ships.
- Maybe cool it down a little? I'm always afraid of setting fire to my passengers when fuel scooping.

It's not a huge buff, at least in my opinion, but it would indeed allow this ship to feel worthwhile again. And I do miss playing it because it's so damned pretty. What do you think?

Regards,
Kaybe

 

[Deleted member 38366]

- improve the bugged heat tolerance by at least 15-25%

(Beluga is one of the hottest running Ships in the entire Game, its heat tolerance rivals a poorly setup Railgun Type-6 with Power Management issues xD )

 

[metascrawl]

The Begula Buff sounds like a fun new dance craze.

 

[FredReynolds]

I've only have my Beluga for a few days now and only around 2k LY on her so far. I may use it differently then some, as I like doing the long range passenger missions and the Beluga is a direct upgrade for me from the Orca as I can fit more cabins and thus stack more scientists ("famous explorers" - but how are they really famous explorers if they don't even have a ship to explore with...) to similar locations with realitivly similar comfort and feel. Plus it looks dead sexy IMO.

A few points though:

- Due it's weight, the Beluga HAS TO equip a class 6 shield. No choice here. On top of that, even a 6A can only output 222 MJ pre-engi. Compare this to the 321 MJ from an Orca's 5A shield.

Incorrect, you can equip a size 5 shield as well. However it does have to go into a Class 6 slot as there are no free size 5 slots on the ship at all. (I run a 5d with G2 Enhanced Lower Power even...)

- While the Beluga *could* equip a class 6 Fighter Hangar, it actually can't. It only has another usable class 6 slot, and pretty much everyone will drop a fuel scoop in there. So while the option is there, it's really quite impractical to do so.

I think the design here was to make us choose the purpose/desired mission of the Beluga we equip. You can go Shield/Fighter bay and it will work well for any work in and arround the bubble. It has a HUGE fuel tank, with a very large range and a size 6 scoop is not needed unless...

Long range passenger missions, in which case you are likely NOT in civilized space and the only use for a fighter bay would be for fun/exploring planets.

I do agree it would be great to have a 6A scoop, Shield, and fighter bay, this really isn't the design of the ship. I open for 5d shield and 6a scoop as it fits my use. However, if I wanted to do passenger transport I'd change to no scoop or a 4a scoop just to edge a bit more range.

I don't mind the reserved slots at all, though I would LOVE an EXTRA size 5 OR a mass decrease enough that I could fit a size 4 shield (with engineering) so I could bring a fighter bay with me just for fun in the black.

I'm not opposed to any buffs to this lovely machine though

- improve the bugged heat tolerance by at least 15-25%

(Beluga is one of the hottest running Ships in the entire Game, its heat tolerance rivals a poorly setup Railgun Type-6 with Power Management issues xD )

I read this a lot when researching before I actually bought the ship and was worried for the worst. However I am having only a few % higher then my orca and roughly the same as my Python. I have to be positive to pass the star before charging the FSD as that charge heats up rather quick if not, but otherwise heat is not a problem for me (not that I would reject a buff to it mind you). I think some people may be pushing the power plant too far with these issues, no idea, but I'm not seeing that. It was VERY hot with the stock E rated power plant (flying it from Alioth to Founders World, I used a full clip of heat sinks).

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I read this a lot when researching before I actually bought the ship and was worried for the worst. However I am having only a few % higher then my orca and roughly the same as my Python. I have to be positive to pass the star before charging the FSD as that charge heats up rather quick if not, but otherwise heat is not a problem for me (not that I would reject a buff to it mind you). I think some people may be pushing the power plant too far with these issues, no idea, but I'm not seeing that. It was VERY hot with the stock E rated power plant (flying it from Alioth to Founders World, I used a full clip of heat sinks).

Just 30 Minutes ago, I departed from a 0.35g Planet and did a Hyperjump while flying upright (not inverted). Heat reached? 88%.

Power Usage is 93% and I got a +1.4% Heat Tolerance Bonus from a Secondary G1 PowerPlant roll. Apart from stripping its G5 Clean Drives and G4 Resistance Shields, she's as cold as a Beluga can get.
btw. I get virtually the same results when I bring Power Usage down to 50% by disabling literally anything but FSD and Thrusters. Another bug of this Ship.
(both issues I Bug-Reported already, but for the Design Team any Temperature below 100% is apparently "working as intended" - even with Smoke coming up everywhere in the Cockpit and Alarm jingles going crazy )

 

[Xious]

My Beluga is already buffed...

 

[Kaybe]

I think the design here was to make us choose the purpose/desired mission of the Beluga we equip. You can go Shield/Fighter bay and it will work well for any work in and arround the bubble. It has a HUGE fuel tank, with a very large range and a size 6 scoop is not needed unless...

The problem here is that no other ship has to make this compromise. Not the Keelback, Federal Gunship, Type 9, or any of the "Big 3". The only drawback to carrying a fighter hangar for those is a reduction to cargo capacity. The Beluga is the only that can equip either a fuel scoop or a fighter hangar, but not both. And to many, the fighter hangar was one of the selling points for this ship over the Orca.

By the way, the Anaconda is a MUCH better long range passenger mission deep explorer than the Beluga. Not even close. I have personally never seen a Luxury cabin Famous Explorer. Plus due to Beluga's severe heat issues and limited class 6 fuel scoop, scooping is VERY risky when you have to do it hundreds of times.

 

[FredReynolds]

Just 30 Minutes ago, I departed from a 0.19g Planet and did a Hyperjump while flying upright (not inverted). Heat reached? 88%.

Power Usage is 93% and I got a +1.4% Heat Tolerance Bonus from a Secondary G1 PowerPlant roll. Apart from stripping its G5 Clean Drives and G4 Resistance Shields, she's as cold as a Beluga can get.
btw. I get virtually the same results when I bring Power Usage down to 50% by disabling literally anything but FSD and Thrusters. Another bug of this Ship.
(both issues I Bug-Reported already, but for the Design Team any Temperature below 100% is apparently "working as intended" - even with Smoke coming up everywhere in the Cockpit and Alarm jingles going crazy )

Which power plant and mod are you using? While it is higher, 88% heat isnt going to damage anything though, so its not like you are redlining anyway.

I have not yet checked to see if heat drops with modules off, though I'll likely dive into the black sometime this weekend (I don't normally turn shields/etc off until ~500-1000 LY from civilization).

Here is my build. I'm very light on defences, but I tend to stick to the far reaches more. I think I will be dropping the PD and possibly chaff. I run between 40-80% heat when Honk-Scoop-Jump though systems and about 25-30% when away from the star (my Orca ran around 22% and DBX was around 18-20% which is the coldest running ship I've ever seen).

A look into it getting hot during a jump would be a nice time saver as this the first long range build where I have had to make 100% sure I'm past the sun (color of the star is no longer red) before charging FSD, otherwise heat jumps to 100% in seconds.

 

[FredReynolds]

The problem here is that no other ship has to make this compromise. Not the Keelback, Federal Gunship, Type 9, or any of the "Big 3". The only drawback to carrying a fighter hangar for those is a reduction to cargo capacity. The Beluga is the only that can equip either a fuel scoop or a fighter hangar, but not both. And to many, the fighter hangar was one of the selling points for this ship over the Orca.

By the way, the Anaconda is a MUCH better long range passenger mission deep explorer than the Beluga. Not even close. I have personally never seen a Luxury cabin Famous Explorer. Plus due to Beluga's severe heat issues and limited class 6 fuel scoop, scooping is VERY risky when you have to do it hundreds of times.

Specs wise, it is, but I just don't like that ship at all. I love the look out the glass, the feel in and out of super cruise, the style, and everything of the Beluga MUCH better. Its not all just about stats . I also see that as more of a lack of balance on the Anaconda then poor balance of the Beluga. Why is a "do it all" ship the best at almost every role... stat wise...? I don't use Luxury cabins at all, or even size 6 for what I've chose to do (as I have yet to see missions needing that cabin size vs having an extra 20 tons).

I agree about a compromise, that is why I would love to see an added Size 5 or a mass reduction so we could have the bay, though for me its not a deal breaker, I'd still love to fit at least a single fighter just for the fun.

I'm also not having the heat issues I read about this ship, but that may boil down to my load-out decision and chose mission use.

I know we can agree that the locked cabin was an odd implementation without using it on many of the other ships too. I think it would be better to add this to MORE ships or remove it all together.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Which power plant and mod are you using? While it is higher, 88% heat isnt going to damage anything though, so its not like you are redlining anyway.

I have not yet checked to see if heat drops with modules off, though I'll likely dive into the black sometime this weekend (I don't normally turn shields/etc off until ~500-1000 LY from civilization).

Here is my build. I'm very light on defences, but I tend to stick to the far reaches more. I think I will be dropping the PD and possibly chaff. I run between 40-80% heat when Honk-Scoop-Jump though systems and about 25-30% when away from the star (my Orca ran around 22% and DBX was around 18-20% which is the coldest running ship I've ever seen).

A look into it getting hot during a jump would be a nice time saver as this the first long range build where I have had to make 100% sure I'm past the sun (color of the star is no longer red) before charging FSD, otherwise heat jumps to 100% in seconds.

G1 Overcharged, just to get me the chance for the Heat Bonus Secondary.

88% is no less than 23% beyond Thermal Design Limits. Doesn't catch fire yet but is clearly and highly abnormal. Deep into the Transient Zone of operations.

Would you still feel safe if during Takeoff in an Airliner, Smoke came out everywhere and Overheat Warnings were to be heard through the open Cockpit door? I'm pretty sure not
The Captain saying over Intercom "This is normal. No reason for Alarm" definitely wouldn't be reassuring xD

A hot jump is cooking off the Ship in virtually no time. A Sidewinder can do it, an Eagle can do it, a Python can do it, a DBX/DBS can easily do it and the FdL still gives you Ice Cream while doing it - the Beluga will have sparks flying all over the place.

Bottom line : no Ship in stock or "cold" config should ever[/u] reach, let alone exceed 65% Heat under any normal Operations.
Beyond 65% is the Transient Zone of Operations, where positive CMDR action is required to prevent damage to or even loss of the Ship. The time of Operations in that Transient zone is limited due to exceeding operational design limits.
The very definition of a "Transient Zone" in Engineering and Design.

 

[XiphiqiX]

I purchased a Beluga and spent way too many credits on an A fit-out for passenger missions. The real expense was finding out when you use this ship it seems to attract a large queue of very large ships attempting land as your exiting the station. Leaving a station with this ship is like a horror movie with jump scares and the ticket price for the show is an 8 million re-buy. I have also let the occasional criminal on board my ship, unintentionally. So far its cost me about 32 million in re-buy and passengers run from my ship in terror due to reputation. I'm afraid to fly the thing.

I think I would need FD to buff me personally as I am the problem with this ship. I may come back to it when I have a much larger credit balance and have managed to grow a much larger pair. Be warned practice with this ship is expensive. Alternatively, a large military grade bull bar on the front with a military grade sonic air horn could be fun.

 

[Squid Gumbo]

The Begula Buff sounds like a fun new dance craze.

I'm interested! Maybe we can set us a Beluga Buff dance class in Lave

 

[XiphiqiX]

I purchased a Beluga and spent way too many credits on an A fit-out for passenger missions. The real expense was finding out when you use this ship it seems to attract a large queue of very large ships attempting land as your exiting the station. Leaving a station with this ship is like a horror movie with jump scares and the ticket price for the show is an 8 million re-buy. I have also let the occasional criminal on board my ship, unintentionally. So far its cost me about 32 million in re-buy and passengers run from my ship in terror due to reputation. I'm afraid to fly the thing.

I think I would need FD to buff me personally as I am the problem with this ship. I may come back to it when I have a much larger credit balance and have managed to grow a much larger pair. Be warned practice with this ship is expensive. Alternatively, a large military grade bull bar on the front with a military grade sonic air horn could be fun.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

The Beluga very much has some heat issues. I feel it could get an new unrestricted C7 slot, and not really be even slightly overpowered in any real way. I think heat fix + a C7 would be a good solution.

 

[FredReynolds]

G1 Overcharged, just to get me the chance for the Heat Bonus Secondary.

88% is no less than 23% beyond Thermal Design Limits. Doesn't catch fire yet but is clearly and highly abnormal. Deep into the Transient Zone of operations.

Would you still feel safe if during Takeoff in an Airliner, Smoke came out everywhere and Overheat Warnings were to be heard through the open Cockpit door? I'm pretty sure not
The Captain saying over Intercom "This is normal. No reason for Alarm" definitely wouldn't be reassuring xD

A hot jump is cooking off the Ship in virtually no time. A Sidewinder can do it, an Eagle can do it, a Python can do it, a DBX/DBS can easily do it and the FdL still gives you Ice Cream while doing it - the Beluga will have sparks flying all over the place.

Airliners can actually get very hot during takeoff (and landing), and alarms can go off with this as well. However, unlike in ED the alarms are more of a "beep" and flashing red lights then what sounds like an "ABANDON SHIP" alarm we have now, haha. I'm not sure how 88% is 23% over design limits though... Given that heat is given to us in a percentage, wouldn't 100% be the MAX of designed thermal limit...?

I can do a hot jump a bit in the Orca as well, though it can only take a few seconds. The Beluga can cook in that time though. All of the heat compaints I've seen seem to point to FSD charging (and perhaps high wake only?). I'd welcome a size up in FSD which could help solve that, though would create new power issues for us at the same time.

The overcharge could be part of whats getting you. I have G1 (and a darn good roll too) efficient, that made a very noticeable difference in the heat performance for me.

I also only have G2 DD as I don't have Pailin unlocked, but from an excellent thread on there, DD didn't actually have that huge of an affect on heat compared to clean drives.

I'd GLADLY welcome better heat dissipation/reduced mass though!

The Beluga very much has some heat issues. I feel it could get an new unrestricted C7 slot, and not really be even slightly overpowered in any real way. I think heat fix + a C7 would be a good solution.

Could we get a C8 FSD with it too? [big grin] (+1 size)

 

[SaliVader]

- improve the bugged heat tolerance by at least 15-25%

(Beluga is one of the hottest running Ships in the entire Game, its heat tolerance rivals a poorly setup Railgun Type-6 with Power Management issues xD )

One of the hottest? That ship will cook itself just by charging its FSD. I should have bought an Orca [mad]

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Airliners can actually get very hot during takeoff (and landing), and alarms can go off with this as well. However, unlike in ED the alarms are more of a "beep" and flashing red lights then what sounds like an "ABANDON SHIP" alarm we have now, haha. I'm not sure how 88% is 23% over design limits though... Given that heat is given to us in a percentage, wouldn't 100% be the MAX of designed thermal limit...?

I can do a hot jump a bit in the Orca as well, though it can only take a few seconds. The Beluga can cook in that time though. All of the heat compaints I've seen seem to point to FSD charging (and perhaps high wake only?). I'd welcome a size up in FSD which could help solve that, though would create new power issues for us at the same time.

The overcharge could be part of whats getting you. I have G1 (and a darn good roll too) efficient, that made a very noticeable difference in the heat performance for me.

I also only have G2 DD as I don't have Pailin unlocked, but from an excellent thread on there, DD didn't actually have that huge of an affect on heat compared to clean drives.

I'd GLADLY welcome better heat dissipation/reduced mass though!



Could we get a C8 FSD with it too? [big grin] (+1 size)

Nope, if an Airliner "gets hot" during Takeoff, seconds later you'll suddenly feel a loss of Thrust, followed by braking.
Because the Pilot in Command will react to an overheat condition and abort the Takeoff (it's a Boldface - instant reaction required and Pilots learn, train and drill these procedures)

Back in the old days, 100% Heat indicated was actually 100% Heat.
Frontier decided to change this into the (disputed and unintuitive) 65% Heat = 100% of Design Limits and 100% Heat = Modules start taking damage.

I mean it's not that bad, once you learn the Beluga's heat limitations, my main gripe with it is that's it's not a cheap Lakon hauler where they saved on Coolant designing it.
The Beluga is meant to be a top-of-the-line Luxury Liner. Meaning : unless under attack by Thermal Cascade/Shock Weapons or crashing into a Sun, it should never have its Passengers see Smoke coming up in their cabins.

 

[FredReynolds]

Nope, if an Airliner "gets hot" during Takeoff, seconds later you'll suddenly feel a loss of Thrust, followed by braking.
Because the Pilot in Command will react to an overheat condition and abort the Takeoff (it's a Boldface - instant reaction required and Pilots learn, train and drill these procedures)

Back in the old days, 100% Heat indicated was actually 100% Heat.
Frontier decided to change this into the (disputed and unintuitive) 65% Heat = 100% of Design Limits and 100% Heat = Modules start taking damage.

I mean it's not that bad, once you learn the Beluga's heat limitations, my main gripe with it is that's it's not a cheap Lakon hauler where they saved on Coolant designing it.
The Beluga is meant to be a top-of-the-line Luxury Liner. Meaning : unless under attack by Thermal Cascade/Shock Weapons or crashing into a Sun, it should never have its Passengers see Smoke coming up in their cabins.

There is a difference between getting hot and danger heat. The planes and jets I've flown and been in the cockpit of always have multiple levels of "hot" labeled. Most commonly is a white zone, which is minimum operating temp (less then this risks possible engine damage and icing on ICE engines), then on the upper end is a rather large yellow area where it is "hot" but not over heating. It's not uncommon to get in this area under heavy load takeoffs or during normal load take off on hot days. The handbook for the craft will have the limits (which every pilot will minority's for their craft) which has a reccomeded limit of operation in this zone. This follows a red zone, which is not normally that large of an area where it's a "danger zone", operating here for long periods of time risks issues, this is a bit of a "don't go here" temp range. Last an overheat marker that sends all sorts of alarms off if you even touch it, this is where high risk of damage is. As with all manufacturers, they play it safe and anything could be pushed past these, but you are trained not to. Now equating this to ED is odd because of some design choices, and as you say 65% is strange, but if there is no negative effect until 100% you could consider that the redline and 65% yellow. 88% heat under gravitational acceleration isn't terrible really and has no lasting effects. The smoke from the dash was the strangest choice IMO. I get they did it to get your attention...but what is smoking? Poweplants would likely be aft, primary thrusters are aft... Even stranger in some of the lakon ships there is nothing there but s think display dash and glass, why would that be smoking?

All pilots, at least in North America, perform a preflight check, one of which is revving and holding the engine at full throttle an check to ensure all is working, if you've flown on a liner I'm sure you've heard this. Part of the reason for this is not all aircraft can "abort takeoff" as you say. Pulling the throttle during the first ~minute will cause a stall, and likely fatal and fast. Take off in a heavy load, short field take off, very hot days, any combo of these can cause "yellow" zone temps, but that's an acceptable level. Trying to relate that to ED would be the area between 65-100%.

Drawing back to the topic, I agree that the heat isn't to a level the craft seems to be built at. I have about the same temp controls as my Type 7 that has nothing but FSD5 engineering. It could use some love in heat disapation, or even just FSD charge buildup, but I still think it's over exaggerated from how most make it sound. YMMV
Yay
I'm going to go hop back in mine now, finish the last 1500ly leg of this first longer journey and find some researchers to take toward colonia, because I LOVE this ship! See you in the black CMDR!

 

[Schimz]

I'm trying to fit a Beluga as a personal yatch. It's a real pain in the ***.

Look at this ugly fit : https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/bel...oBhA2AWEoFMCGBzANokICMF9A===&bn=Disco Volante

It's the best I can do if I want fighters and 2 SRV.

It should be so convenient with a class 8 for fuel scoop and an unrestricted class 5 for fighters bay.

 

[duckofdeath]

Here's a better idea instead of all of these "I think this or that ship needs a buff!" threads.
How about no? How about if we get a game where the developer can stand by the choices they've made on the ships, modules, limits?
The core foundation of this game is that it's one permanent galaxy. Let's try to keep it like that.
Give us new models, tweaks manufacturers, engineers instead of constantly changing weapons and ships in a way that makes what happened in the galaxy just one month ago irrelevant.
Use the mechanics built into the game to give us better stuff, like a Beluga Liner II instead of pretending what we've done so far doesn't matter.