Elite / Frontier Best version of Elite (classic)?

Brucifer

B
I have only played the original wire framed Elite on the Commodore 64 ( and recently a PC adaptation) and them Oolite1.72. I vastly prefer the original Elite. In fact I deleted Oolite off my computer being very unimpressed.

I did not care at all for the changes made in Oolite, the ships stats, weapons effects, key board controls, in my opinion were all better in the original. As far as graphics, well as a cockpit sim I don't see the wire frame view as unrealistic at all. We have the tech today to make the displays in our Naval ships and aircraft far more impressive than we do today, but still use blips on a radar screen with little computer generated symbols slaved to them even in state of the art nuclear aircraft carriers. Why is that, because in a warship (and even trade vessels need to be prepared to fight in Elite) equipment needs to be as simple as possible and still do the job. Ease of maintenance, repair, and durability are far more desirable than fancy bells and whistles (unless you're a Fer de lance pilot). Also there is the issue of cost, as most starting ship owners are on a shoe string budget, thus a cockpit display would be as basic as possible while allowing one to target and navigate effectively. The wire frame display provides the pilot with that, and in my opinion does not detract at all from the realism of the game.

In other areas I find the mob behavior, the weapons and ship stats, the controls, of the original Elite far more enjoyable than what I found in Oolite. I have not as yet tried Frontier, but I hope that being an official frontier product it will be more like the original, than my less than favorable Oolite experience.
 

porl

porl
Brucifer said:
I have only played the original wire framed Elite on the Commodore 64 ( and recently a PC adaptation) and them Oolite1.72. I vastly prefer the original Elite. In fact I deleted Oolite off my computer being very unimpressed.

I did not care at all for the changes made in Oolite, the ships stats, weapons effects, key board controls, in my opinion were all better in the original. As far as graphics, well as a cockpit sim I don't see the wire frame view as unrealistic at all. We have the tech today to make the displays in our Naval ships and aircraft far more impressive than we do today, but still use blips on a radar screen with little computer generated symbols slaved to them even in state of the art nuclear aircraft carriers. Why is that, because in a warship (and even trade vessels need to be prepared to fight in Elite) equipment needs to be as simple as possible and still do the job. Ease of maintenance, repair, and durability are far more desirable than fancy bells and whistles (unless you're a Fer de lance pilot). Also there is the issue of cost, as most starting ship owners are on a shoe string budget, thus a cockpit display would be as basic as possible while allowing one to target and navigate effectively. The wire frame display provides the pilot with that, and in my opinion does not detract at all from the realism of the game.

In other areas I find the mob behavior, the weapons and ship stats, the controls, of the original Elite far more enjoyable than what I found in Oolite. I have not as yet tried Frontier, but I hope that being an official frontier product it will be more like the original, than my less than favorable Oolite experience.
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You could have selected wire frame mode : “P” (for pause) “F2”, game options, wire frame.

Personally I think they are doing an awesome job :D, thanks for the link Geraldine, now I got to get some Mods installed, any recommendations anyone?
 

Steve

Steve
Brucifer said:
I have not as yet tried Frontier, but I hope that being an official frontier product it will be more like the original, than my less than favorable Oolite experience.
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Oh crumbs, no. Frontier is definitely not like Elite. To the extent that you're better off with Oolite. :(
 

DraQ

D
Steve said:
Oh crumbs, no. Frontier is definitely not like Elite. To the extent that you're better off with Oolite. :(
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Well, Frontier is not like Oolite either.

I'd definitely try it and postpone any verdict till I'd grasp the flight and combat mechanics.
 

Geraldine

Geraldine
porl said:
now I got to get some Mods installed, any recommendations anyone?
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Well it depends on what you want from your Oolite experience, certainly consider anything done by Griff. His contributions to Oolite are always excellent, but there is a ton of others to choose from too. One of my favorite is the Flying Dutchman OXP with a ghostly wireframe Cobra MkIII causing all sorts of mayhem in it's wake.

Here is a link to the extensive OXP list http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_List

And Brucifer? I do agree that C64 Elite was a great game, but I have to disagree with you about Oolite. I have played just about all the versions of Elite there are and for me Oolite is my favorite, with Elite Advanced on the Miggy a worthy second. Still, there is a lot to be said about the clean lines of the wireframe versions. They do have that retro appeal :cool:

Frontier Elite II still tops the lot for me though :D
 

Brucifer

B
It is not that I merely prefer the old wire frame graphics, but when I tried Oolite I was surprised keyboard controls were different, the staring pulse laser was slower and less effective than the starting weapon in the original, ship stats were apparently different, (ramming a krait in a cobra would kill it in the original), there are also changes to the economy and other facets of the game. I was kind of expecting a pretty close copy of the original except with more modern graphics,and more ship choices and modifications, I was not really keen on the changes I found. I suppose had I played Oolite first I would be more favorable to it, but I was hoping it was just a more modern version of the original with only minor additions, so I was disappointed to find it different in so many ways.
 

Geraldine

Geraldine
Well Oolite does have a sort of "strict mode" these days that takes it very close to the original. I would suggest that someone like yourself should go onto the Oolite forum and inform them there of the little tweaks the strict mode needs. Since perhaps they actually need someone like yourself to keep the no frills game as close to the original as possible. Do bare in mind though, that even the originals on different platforms differed to one another, but looking at your suggestions I have to say I agree with them :)

I still like the game packed to the rafters with cool OXPs though :D
 

DraQ

D
Well, the most important difference between Frontier: Elite 2 and Elite is flight mechanics.

Elite was an arcade space sim/trading game. Frontier, despite maintaining general style (and relative simplicity) goes for realism here and is Newtonian, so you get to experience more or less actual spaceflight, though it's still much easier than the real thing, since your ship has lots of fuel, powerful engines (allowing you to disregard stuff like transfer orbits) and is very effectively stabilized. Oh, and you get an autopilot that makes for very effective 'training wheels' (too effective actually, as most commanders seem to have never taken them off), although it can be suicidally stupid on rare occasions.

Frontier is effectively a hardcore game with very casual learning curve, with the only hurdle being having to get used to the whole "no friction in space" thing and "everything is relative" which make huge difference in combat (along with "engines off" misnomer that only turns off computer controls and gives you direct control over thrusters which is absolutely crucial in deep space combat) and when you're flying several thousand km/s and need several days of full burn to stop (which will be a big problem if you only start braking when you can actually see the planet as more than a point of light).

Frontier is also bigger, there are around a billion of star systems, laid out as proper (albeit flattened and with reduced systems count - sort of a slice) galaxy, planetary systems are realistically scaled and animated (which means that to land on a planet or dock on station you first need to catch up with it), and everything is relative (which means that "how fast am I going" is not a valid question unless you specify your frame of reference).

And then, you get multiple ships to chose from, can take up all types of contracts and jobs via BBS, ability to mine planets and asteroids and to scoop hydrogen fuel from gas giants and stars and so on.

Elite might have been the most influential space sim in history, but it's the Frontier (and properly patched FFE which is effectively Frontier++) that I'd consider the best and most ambitious one.
 

Styggron

S
I have to say I have nothing but the UTMOST respect for the Oolite developers.

I am a HUGE fan of the Original Elite (C64 for me), and I simply LOVE Oolite and EVERYTHING they have done with it, the lot ! I LOVE how I can add as many OXP's as I choose and even without any extras it is an EXTREMELY enjoyable version of Elite with all the controls, places and events that made me LOVE the original.

Oolite I cann today's "Elite". I play it VERY regularly and added many OXP's mostly textures, I don't use any cockpit mods because I like that Elite retro look, just that ALONE tells me how good the game is, WE can choose to change things on it or leave them alone so it can be as same or as different as you choose.

I PRAISE the Oolite developers! I am so glad they did not remove the energy bomb though because that was in the original. Sure you can make it optional but do not remove it, and yes there is a strict play option.

Just like I ADORE Pioneer, it is going to be the Oolite for Elite II.

I understand the Russian team is working on a new FFE, the current one just does not work for me, those damn icons NEVER come up (see another thread) so lets hope we *keep* having KEEN fans and developers keeping ELITE alive the series of games WE LOVE so much thanks to the brilliant insight of Ian Bell and David Braben back when it all started.

I feel priviledged that as an Elite fan I am spoilt still and I can play Oolite, Pioneer and have all the wonderful resources of http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/ and all of you here.

You are ALL fantastic !
 

Impy

Impy
I'll always love Elite Plus on the Amiga for it's very cool hidden Hex editor, accessed with a cheat code.
Also retro rockets which made Thargoid hunting very profitable.
 

drew

drew
ZX Spectrum 48k Elite for me. The first one with flicker free wireframe graphics and the best framerate of the early 8 bit computers. Supernova mission, cloaking device and Thargoid invasion. V cool back in 1985. Played it for years.

Cheers,

Drew.
 

Geraldine

Geraldine
drew said:
ZX Spectrum 48k Elite for me. The first one with flicker free wireframe graphics and the best framerate of the early 8 bit computers. Supernova mission, cloaking device and Thargoid invasion. V cool back in 1985. Played it for years.

Cheers,

Drew.
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If we are only talking about the original 8 bit Elite versions......Totally, utterly and completely +1 for this. The Speccy version for me was best, so smooth to fly around in, although BBC fans might differ in their opinion :eek:
 

Fiachra

F
Elite Plus on the PC, still the original game but with fancy 16 colour EGA graphics, believe missions have been improved but had trouble finding any missions in any version to compare.

Tried to get ArcElite running on an emulator to see what it was like but got no where, unlike other emulators Archimedes ones seem ridiculously complicated to get working.
 

Keebert

Keebert
I had Elite on the BBC but it never really grabbed me. Perhaps it was all that messing with tapes and not having it load 9oo10 times every time I wanted to play.

Elite plus on the Amiga is the one I played all night and all weekend and left me falling asleep in school. Although the in flight graphics were basic, they were plenty enough for me. Unless it's a Thargoid, you have usually destroyed whatever ship you encounter before it changed from a grey circle to the polygon. What captured my imagination was the trading screen and the pictures of the planetary systems. Those crappy pixels of the goods and insect like humanoids were the stuff that kindled dreams of trading exotics in a far off star system.

132087-elite-amiga-screenshot-planetary-informations.gif

132068-elite-amiga-screenshot-market-informations.gif
 
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