Best way to flip a System for your minor Faction?

[Sunleader]

Lately my Friends and I have tried desperately to take Control of the System our Minor Faction is in.
But while we easily take out any other small faction.
The Control Faction just refuses to drop in influence regardless what we do.

So anyone got some info what works best to get our faction out top so we can get a war going?

 

[goemon]

there is no general "best method", as it depends on circumstances. maybe you can share more details, like number of stations, are all stations controlled by the controlling faction, black markets available etc. how many bounties are redeemed each day, how much population, how much traffic?

generally:

- reduce the controlling factions influence by missions for all other factions. it is easier to gain influence for a low influence level faction, than for a large influence faction

- while gains are capped, losses are not. do things o actively hurt the controlling faction, like smuggling, killing their ships, shooting their system security

- up your transactions. go bounty hunting at a nav beacon, in uss, or at a res close to station with a kws. redeem your factions bounties only, and everytime you got any claim. it is more about the numbers of redeems, than the value. redeeming 10 times 10K cr is by far better than redeeming 1 time 10 mio CR. similar for trading/smuggling/explo data/ missions

- if the controlling faction has expanded previously, can you bind them in a war or election in that other system?

- can you get a station from one of the other factions in system? if you own a station, you can gain influence more easily by trade or exploration data.

if you haven't read it, read the opening post of this thread https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/193064-A-Guide-to-Minor-Factions-and-the-Background-Sim, and drop your case and questions in there, as you will find neerby all dedicated BGS players in that thread. you don't need to read the few hundred pages before asking anything

in a similar case as yours, a group i'm working with a) brought its own faction timed into boom and "stored" 20 missions for b) put the controlling faction timed into lockdown by security ship shooting c) redeemed the stored missions, and went bounty hunting as above - in that way an election was triggered.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

1. Does the controlling faction exist in any other systems? If it does, get them into a war in one of these. then their influence will drop severely in your system.

2. Is the controlling faction close to 70% influence? If it is, boosting their influence will actually help. If you can get them into expansion, they will then lose 10-15 points without you needing to do anything. Also, once they've expanded you can get them into a war in the other system - see 1.

3. What's the traffic in this system? There may be a lot of players trading to the station(s), so while you are trying to push them down others are pushing them up. Murdering authority ships will put this faction into lockdown which will stop the trading.

 

[Sunleader]

Faction only has one System. It owns all but one Ground Base. And us at 54%
Own Faction has no base yet.

I cant check the other stats as I am on Cellphone.
System is *AO* if someone would check the necessary info and post it. It would be appreciated.

The main Station has a Black Market.
Cant use that tough.
I am Wanted cuz I keep killing Authority Ships.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Ao.
Pop: 24 million
One station, two outposts, two bases.

All your base are belong to them. Actually, Liberals of LTT 6139 own one of the ground bases, so maybe you could take that from them.

EDDB states that the United Ao Progressive Party is also in LHS 378 and LHS 3022.

UAPP is a Fed faction, so random players taking missions can be a problem. Yours is also a fed faction, which will help. But the other 3 Fed factions will also

 

[the100thmonkey]

Make sure you're not using any of their station for anything, from cashing bounties to trade to outfitting.

 

[Sunleader]

Ao.
Pop: 24 million
One station, two outposts, two bases.

All your base are belong to them. Actually, Liberals of LTT 6139 own one of the ground bases, so maybe you could take that from them.

EDDB states that the United Ao Progressive Party is also in LHS 378 and LHS 3022.

UAPP is a Fed faction, so random players taking missions can be a problem. Yours is also a fed faction, which will help. But the other 3 Fed factions will also

Oh I didnt know they are in other Systems.
Does it help if I kill their Ships in other Systems?
Or do i forcibly need to Run a War with them in another system to drop their influence ?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Check the bounties issued.vs. cashed as well. If you have a nice system for bounty-hunting, people will be working against you without even knowing it.

 

[Sunleader]

Check the bounties issued.vs. cashed as well. If you have a nice system for bounty-hunting, people will be working against you without even knowing it.

As I said.
I am on Cellphone currently.
Wont be at home for another 6 hours.
So I cant check right now.


I think there is only High and Low Res zones tough.
No Haz ones.
So not such a good System for Bounty Hunting I think.


Bigger Problem is likely that se are just 4 People.
Its hard to work against the BGS with so few People

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Oh I didnt know they are in other Systems.
Does it help if I kill their Ships in other Systems?
Or do i forcibly need to Run a War with them in another system to drop their influence ?

it won't make any difference to your system what you do in another. Except for bounties earned in another system and cashed in your one, but since your faction is only in the one system that won't help you.
The reason getting the other faction into an external war works, is that missions and trade stop helping them in other systems. So normally factions tend to drop elsewhere when they are in a war. Though if the reason this faction is gaining influence is due to bountyhunting, a war won't change things. In this case an external election might do the trick. whether it's an election or a war depends on the types of the two factions. The more similar, the more likely an election.

 

[goemon]

The reason getting the other faction into an external war works, is that missions and trade stop helping them in other systems. So normally factions tend to drop elsewhere when they are in a war. Though if the reason this faction is gaining influence is due to bountyhunting, a war won't change things. .

yep, this is essential. if you have a higher claims number of bounties in system (check bounty hunter report), you might want to prepare an election for them. if you have a higher traffic report number, that might indicate mission or trade, in which case a war would be the way to go.

4 people isn't a lot, but a 24 million pop system is doable, if played clever, and if you don't have a lot of random traffic.

basically first step is to identify from which source the controlling faction gains their influence, and to cut that off by pushing them into the "wrong" state in another system.

 

[Sunleader]

So basicly.
If they get Influence from Combat stuff I need to bind them into an Election as that prevents Combat Influence.
If they gain Influence from Trade stuff I need to push em into a War.

K.
Just leaves the problem of actually doing that :-/

 

[goemon]

So basicly.
If they get Influence from Combat stuff I need to bind them into an Election as that prevents Combat Influence.
If they gain Influence from Trade stuff I need to push em into a War.

K.
Just leaves the problem of actually doing that :-/

I'd start with pushing Leaders of LHS 369 in LHS 378. It's a 38K pop system, you can bring them into a pending war with United Ao Progressive Party with a couple of missions and maybe some bounty redeems alone.

once the war triggers, you'll see whether that makes it easier to gain influence in your system. run missions for all factions beside the controlling one. if war doesn't help, push them into an election.

I'd also use the boom of Liberals of LTT 6139 to push them into a conflict with your faction, so you can win Carstensz Laboratory. a market and a place to cash in exploration data.

generally, as you are close to sol, you'll deal with a lot of random traffic.

 

[Sunleader]

Hmm.
Well. I.ll Try.
Albeit it will take a while as I.ll need to lose the Wanted Status.

I can barely take down 2 Security Ships before the entire Instance is Filled by Security Ships including several Condas all Shooting at me....
And even if I try to mow em down they just spawn ever more Security Ships...

 

[the100thmonkey]

Bigger Problem is likely that se are just 4 People.
Its hard to work against the BGS with so few People

Keep in mind that the BGS is all transaction based and without opposition, one CMDR can flip even the largest system. There's also a cap on positive influence movement via positive actions for the faction you support. This means that if you're not working against organised opposition, influence is pretty easy to move. With a population of 23 million, you can expect about 6% a day, IIRC, provided you work the system correctly and there's no one trying to counteract your work. If you take negative actions against the controlling faction, there should be no cap on how much influence they lose, which is distributed to the other factions in the system.

Your first task is to identify why the influence isn't moving.

I know you're not at your PC right now - but when you can, check the traffic report. Keep a record of it. Is the system on a profitable trade route? Is it a mining destination? If so, you need to push the controlling faction into conflict elsewhere. Check the bounty reports. Just because there's no HazRES doesn't mean players don't use it for bounty-hunting - you can make a lot of money in a HIRES if you're in a smaller ship. It's easy money.

Check out the Powerplay situation in the region - would the shift to your government type raise the triggers for the controlling PP faction? That might explain why you seem to be meeting resistance.

Above all, check that your wing are not inadvertently undermining yourselves. It's easy to do if you don't know what you're doing. Don't bounty-hunt, trade, drop explo data, buy or outfit ships there.

What state is your faction in?

If you've been shooting up sysauth, this suggests that there are other actions - quite a few of them - coming in that are counteracting the influence loss associated with it (and shooting police is a very damaging action.)

Hmm.
Well. I.ll Try.
Albeit it will take a while as I.ll need to lose the Wanted Status.

I can barely take down 2 Security Ships before the entire Instance is Filled by Security Ships including several Condas all Shooting at me....
And even if I try to mow em down they just spawn ever more Security Ships...

It's a high security system. That's going to happen.

As for losing the wanted status, you can still do the suicidewinder trick. It's not pretty, but it will clear your bounty. Just don't get scanned.

 

[Sunleader]

Keep in mind that the BGS is all transaction based and without opposition, one CMDR can flip even the largest system. There's also a cap on positive influence movement via positive actions for the faction you support. This means that if you're not working against organised opposition, influence is pretty easy to move. With a population of 23 million, you can expect about 6% a day, IIRC, provided you work the system correctly and there's no one trying to counteract your work. If you take negative actions against the controlling faction, there should be no cap on how much influence they lose, which is distributed to the other factions in the system.

Your first task is to identify why the influence isn't moving.

I know you're not at your PC right now - but when you can, check the traffic report. Keep a record of it. Is the system on a profitable trade route? Is it a mining destination? If so, you need to push the controlling faction into conflict elsewhere. Check the bounty reports. Just because there's no HazRES doesn't mean players don't use it for bounty-hunting - you can make a lot of money in a HIRES if you're in a smaller ship. It's easy money.

Check out the Powerplay situation in the region - would the shift to your government type raise the triggers for the controlling PP faction? That might explain why you seem to be meeting resistance.

Above all, check that your wing are not inadvertently undermining yourselves. It's easy to do if you don't know what you're doing. Don't bounty-hunt, trade, drop explo data, buy or outfit ships there.

What state is your faction in?

If you've been shooting up sysauth, this suggests that there are other actions - quite a few of them - coming in that are counteracting the influence loss associated with it (and shooting police is a very damaging action.)

It's a high security system. That's going to happen.

As for losing the wanted status, you can still do the suicidewinder trick. It's not pretty, but it will clear your bounty. Just don't get scanned.

I dont think we are Undermining Ourselves.
I made sure Everyone knows not to use any Actions on Stations Owned by the Control Faction except Missions for other Factions.
Faction has no Status right now. Control Faction has a Boom right now -.-

No PP Faction in the System.


One Mistake we clearly did make is that we made only Missions for our Faction.
I guess we will start doing more Missions for other Minor Factions as well now.

 

[goemon]

I dont think we are Undermining Ourselves.
I made sure Everyone knows not to use any Actions on Stations Owned by the Control Faction except Missions for other Factions.
Faction has no Status right now. Control Faction has a Boom right now -.-

No PP Faction in the System.


One Mistake we clearly did make is that we made only Missions for our Faction.
I guess we will start doing more Missions for other Minor Factions as well now.

and how is the traffic report, and the bounty hunter report?

in any station in system under galnet available for the last 24 hours.

 

[_Flin_]

Check whether they are somewhere else, then drop them into a war there.

Edit: read first. Then post.

Best thing to do: get that station from that other faction. You need a station first, so you can drop exploration data and trade. Otherwise it might be impossible to close that gap.

And dont bounty hunt for fed bounties. That will cement the situation.

 

[Sunleader]

and how is the traffic report, and the bounty hunter report?

in any station in system under galnet available for the last 24 hours.

Cant Check.
Still wanted.
And I dont Exploit. So no Suicidewinder for me.

Tried Docking just now.
But they scan me too fast.
Its a High Security System after all. So they notice me being wanted way too fast



Could try the Main Station by going through the Slot. As that Prevents Scanning.
Problem is if it goes wrong I am good as dead...
So I am not really eager for that.

 

[goemon]

Cant Check.
Still wanted.
And I dont Exploit. So no Suicidewinder for me.

Tried Docking just now.
But they scan me too fast.
Its a High Security System after all. So they notice me being wanted way too fast



Could try the Main Station by going through the Slot. As that Prevents Scanning.
Problem is if it goes wrong I am good as dead...
So I am not really eager for that.

there is tgat one surface station not controlled by the system controlling faction, you won't be wanted there.