BGS and Powerplay separation

I’d like to advocate for further separation between these two systems.
While it’s nice to earn merits simply by playing the game, the influence of Powerplay activities on Background Simulation (BGS) mechanics is causing excessive turmoil.
My proposed solution doesn’t address all the issues within the system, but it would create a clear division between the two, with player choice serving as the key factor in determining where the influence ultimately goes.

In the same way we choose rewards for BGS missions—whether prioritizing credits, reputation, or influence—we could similarly choose between merits and credits for activities not directly handled by Power contacts.

For example, selling cargo, delivering exploration data, or submitting biological samples could prompt players to select either credits or merits as their reward upon selling. This is a straightforward idea in design and, hopefully, feasible to implement. Perhaps we could even introduce Power Cartographics and a Power Commodity Market as separate entities, akin to existing Power contacts. A dedicated NPC for biological samples at the Concourse could also handle these transactions. Alternatively, a simple popup could ask players to choose their reward type, much like completing standard missions.
This change would also impact BGS missions. These missions might either stop awarding merits entirely or include merits as one of the selectable reward options.

I understand the original intention was to make any gameplay activity a viable way to progress in terms of both credits and merits. However, I don’t believe the current setup fulfills the promise of avoiding unintended changes to BGS gameplay due to Powerplay mechanics.

A potential option could involve a split reward system, such as 80:20 credits to merits (and vice versa), to maintain the system of rewarding both credits and merits, yet giving priority to one over the other. Ultimately, giving players the choice of whether to focus on accumulating wealth or advancing their Power seems like a fair solution. I believe both options would appeal to different groups of players—seasoned players with ample credits might prefer to prioritize their Power, while others could still choose extra credits if needed. Either way, this would require careful balancing.

With this adjustment, the only truly intertwined aspect of BGS and Powerplay would be direct spaceship interactions, which feels appropriate for a game centered around spaceships. Additionally, since these activities generally involve rewards distributed in smaller increments over time (unlike large, instantaneous dumps of cargo or data—even when sold one ton at a time), the influence changes would hopefuly become more transparent, sustainable, and manageable.

One last request from me would be rebalancing reputation penalties from holoscreen hacking.
Being hostile in my own bgs system from flipping ~20 holoscreens from enemy power isnt fun and happens too fast.
 
With the actual plans and mechanics for PP2 coming out, it has become apparent that PP2 is intended to be the 'Empire' building mechanic in the game. Anticipating and reacting to the pressure that would envelope my 'one-man PMF', I divested and have taken my personal machinations into the Super-Power realm. The extra pressure on my Faction, started as soon as PP2 was announced, in preparation for a 'frozen' BGS picture I'm sure.

That has to be the best advice to us BGS guys... Do your work for the power that inspires you. The Galaxy has changed.
 
While I understand and respect that many players have had the BGS front and centre of their gameplay for many years now, I can't help but shake the fact that direct BGS manipulation was never really part of the intended gameplay. While the player base has dissected the BGS mechanics to allow such manipulations, the intent was always to have a dynamic galaxy to layer the other gameplay loops on top of. As someone who never wanted the pressures of maintaining a specific faction, but am starting to get into PowerPlay, I'm wondering what the draws of BGS manipulation are vs. PowerPlay. As @Mohrgan suggests above, it may be that PowerPlay is now where this type gameplay is intended to be done, but I'd still like to understand what it is about BGS gameplay that makes it more enticing than PowerPlay.
 
I think BGS is more of a individual systems and PP is is groups of systems . I liked the individual system management ?? PP is more of a governmental renaming convention?? It changes very little in game . In my opinion of course
 
I don't see asking people to choose between credits and merits as an option Frontier are likely to go for - they didn't spend 2+ years redeveloping Powerplay for people not to want to do it.

Bounty Hunting - which at least in some cases seems to be the big driver of the massive influence swings seen - also wouldn't be affected by this, since you don't have to hand in the bounties to get the merits at all. So in that case obviously you'd get the merits (at the moment of the kill) and then hand in the bounties for cash later because why not get paid?

Credits or INF as the choice, maybe, that could work? But that would then have the effect of freezing up the BGS almost entirely except for deliberate player-group manipulation, which I think would go too much against Frontier's stated aims for it too [1]. At any rate having to pick one every time you do anything would get tedious.

I think there is another option, which involves trying to make undirected actions also more undirected in which way they move INF rather than all piling onto the controlling faction - and also doesn't clutter up the interface with several more contacts and options and so on - but I'll put that in separately.

[1] And Powerplay certainly benefits from BGS states being fluid and variable, even if the INF levels rarely matter.

This change would also impact BGS missions. These missions might either stop awarding merits entirely
It's only the Support category which gives merits at the moment anyway.

For example, selling cargo, delivering exploration data, or submitting biological samples could prompt players to select either credits or merits as their reward upon selling
Previous testing has found that exobio doesn't have any Influence effect in the first place - has that changed recently?

One last request from me would be rebalancing reputation penalties from holoscreen hacking.
These are certainly very high.

I'm torn between "yes, they're really annoying, especially since most other Undermining activities don't give much chance to repair your rep, and it's just another nail in the encouragement to Reinforce rather than Undermine" and "well, it does fit the setting really well that interference with megacorp advertising makes you less popular than murder and slavery"
 
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While I support the idea of being able to direct your effort more precisely, at the same time for me the ultimate arbiter is if you don't want power influence you kick out the power and fight against encroachment.
 
Superpower (Trillions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> Factional Power (Billions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> System Minor Faction (Millions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> Rag tag group of Pilot's Federation pilots trying to influence the galaxy (A few hundred inhabitants of the galaxy)

Is that not how it should be?
 
... but I'd still like to understand what it is about BGS gameplay that makes it more enticing than PowerPlay.
So, as someone who was hotly invested in the BGS before PMFs and PP were a thing, and who was very invested in PP before it's release, and completely repulsed by it on launch, I'll throw up my thoughts.

There's two lenses i liked the BGS through:
  • The opportunity to exert influence to create exploitable states... kick off a famine next to a good supply of food, or an outbreak next to a good supply of food, all in a large, procedural galaxy where, if things got too busy or unexploitable, move to a better location
  • In pursuing those states to create opportunities, the options were vast and dynamic. If I wanted a Boom, I'd support through trade, mining, relevant missions. Supporting a war looked like fighting, trading weapons etc.. It was (and still is) a multi-faceted affair.

Contrast against PP
  • You want to serve Patreus? Here is the single activity you need to rinse and repeat for a whole week to achieve that outcome.
  • The power effects on systems were virtually irrelevant to the BGS mechanics, except buying slaves from Torval and selling to a non-anarchy Delaine control system... but PP was too hard for an individual to steer like you can with the BGS.

In short, the BGS offers a faster, more dynamic, easier to influence environment through the whole variety of activities available to achieve multiple objectives. PP by contrast was slow and unagile iceberg to steer like an iceberg, and the variety of activities to achieve goals was incredibly limited[1]

On steering the BGS though, the primary purpose of that should always have been for that opportunistic activity, not for territorialism. My favourite memory of pre-horizons BGS activity was going on a personal war with a neighbouring Federal system. The friendly Imperial system next door, for some reason, offered countless "Massacre civilian" missions which were well paid, and hurt the Federation (an RP enemy of mine). I would do those, and also transport missions to the friendly Imperial base in that system. Additionally, you could still dock when Hostile if you used silent running and blasted into the station fast[2]. That meant, if my only options were transports into the enemy's jaws, I'd do that... and it was lots of fun.

I racked up a massive bounty with the Federal factions in that system (26 million, which back when missions paid around 300k at most, was heaps). Eventually, the Empire went to war, and I helped conquer that system in their name. My reward? This system was now under Imperial control, and the Federal predecessors no longer had jurisdiction... I was essentially free from ever facing the consequence of my aggression, unless of course that faction made a comeback and took over again.

You would never experience that sort of thing through OG Powerplay , and is also what the BGS is here for; that malleable world where you create opportunity... not for territory games... that's the remit of Powerplay.

Given OG powerplay was meant to see factions rise and fall from Power status... that's how I saw the BGS fitting in, using PP to hedge-off pursuit of "territory" games by promoting a faction that had expanded into a substantial amount of systems[3] (maybe 5? 10?) and transcending interactions with it into a system built specifically-for that activity, distinct from, but integrated with the BGS, leaving that to continue being that dynamic backdrop for players to create opportunities within.

Since then, the BGS has changed a lot... that sort of aggressive activity has been swept under the rug in favour of ED: Best Friends with a purely punitive approach to antagonism... instilling a famine or a lockdown is significantly more difficult (so much so, FD introduced artificial, randomly occurring states that push unattended factions towards that, instead of doing so through rewarding player activities). While the BGS has more rigor, the dynamism has been reduced significantly... a lack of economic balance has essentially removed the need to seek the creation of state combinations to exploit. It's... a pretty bad state.

I'm glad PP2 is introducing some churn to the BGS... powers should be the biomes that the factions operate within, to create more diverse opportunities around the place... but it doesn't seem to quite be filling that role yet, and potentially is too requisite on participation.

[1] I have the same problem with Conflict CGs, where whoever submits the most bonds wins. The BGS is far more dynamic now, offering a wide variety of activities to undertake to support one faction in a war.
[2] This was actually way more dangerous than if you were wanted. If you weren't fast enough, or started cooking, you'd get spotted, attacked, and docking permission withdrawn. With shields down, it was basically instant death. It was incredibly fun.
[3] Big, dozens-to-hundreds of system factions were unheard of back then.
 
So, as someone who was hotly invested in the BGS before PMFs and PP were a thing, and who was very invested in PP before it's release, and completely repulsed by it on launch, I'll throw up my thoughts.

There's two lenses i liked the BGS through:
  • The opportunity to exert influence to create exploitable states... kick off a famine next to a good supply of food, or an outbreak next to a good supply of food, all in a large, procedural galaxy where, if things got too busy or unexploitable, move to a better location
  • In pursuing those states to create opportunities, the options were vast and dynamic. If I wanted a Boom, I'd support through trade, mining, relevant missions. Supporting a war looked like fighting, trading weapons etc.. It was (and still is) a multi-faceted affair.

Contrast against PP
  • You want to serve Patreus? Here is the single activity you need to rinse and repeat for a whole week to achieve that outcome.
  • The power effects on systems were virtually irrelevant to the BGS mechanics, except buying slaves from Torval and selling to a non-anarchy Delaine control system... but PP was too hard for an individual to steer like you can with the BGS.

In short, the BGS offers a faster, more dynamic, easier to influence environment through the whole variety of activities available to achieve multiple objectives. PP by contrast was slow and unagile iceberg to steer like an iceberg, and the variety of activities to achieve goals was incredibly limited[1]

On steering the BGS though, the primary purpose of that should always have been for that opportunistic activity, not for territorialism. My favourite memory of pre-horizons BGS activity was going on a personal war with a neighbouring Federal system. The friendly Imperial system next door, for some reason, offered countless "Massacre civilian" missions which were well paid, and hurt the Federation (an RP enemy of mine). I would do those, and also transport missions to the friendly Imperial base in that system. Additionally, you could still dock when Hostile if you used silent running and blasted into the station fast[2]. That meant, if my only options were transports into the enemy's jaws, I'd do that... and it was lots of fun.

I racked up a massive bounty with the Federal factions in that system (26 million, which back when missions paid around 300k at most, was heaps). Eventually, the Empire went to war, and I helped conquer that system in their name. My reward? This system was now under Imperial control, and the Federal predecessors no longer had jurisdiction... I was essentially free from ever facing the consequence of my aggression, unless of course that faction made a comeback and took over again.

You would never experience that sort of thing through OG Powerplay , and is also what the BGS is here for; that malleable world where you create opportunity... not for territory games... that's the remit of Powerplay.

Given OG powerplay was meant to see factions rise and fall from Power status... that's how I saw the BGS fitting in, using PP to hedge-off pursuit of "territory" games by promoting a faction that had expanded into a substantial amount of systems[3] (maybe 5? 10?) and transcending interactions with it into a system built specifically-for that activity, distinct from, but integrated with the BGS, leaving that to continue being that dynamic backdrop for players to create opportunities within.

Since then, the BGS has changed a lot... that sort of aggressive activity has been swept under the rug in favour of ED: Best Friends with a purely punitive approach to antagonism... instilling a famine or a lockdown is significantly more difficult (so much so, FD introduced artificial, randomly occurring states that push unattended factions towards that, instead of doing so through rewarding player activities). While the BGS has more rigor, the dynamism has been reduced significantly... a lack of economic balance has essentially removed the need to seek the creation of state combinations to exploit. It's... a pretty bad state.

I'm glad PP2 is introducing some churn to the BGS... powers should be the biomes that the factions operate within, to create more diverse opportunities around the place... but it doesn't seem to quite be filling that role yet, and potentially is too requisite on participation.

[1] I have the same problem with Conflict CGs, where whoever submits the most bonds wins. The BGS is far more dynamic now, offering a wide variety of activities to undertake to support one faction in a war.
[2] This was actually way more dangerous than if you were wanted. If you weren't fast enough, or started cooking, you'd get spotted, attacked, and docking permission withdrawn. With shields down, it was basically instant death. It was incredibly fun.
[3] Big, dozens-to-hundreds of system factions were unheard of back then.
Thank you for the very informative post. I always knew BGS could be used for system state manipulation, but it's interesting to hear of such emergent play from it. A shame that's been somewhat watered down of late. I think I agree that the BGS probably shouldn't be a form a territorialism, and could in fact stand as another pillar of manipulation for PowerPlay (or any other gameplay system) to leverage when trying to achieve goals. For PP, depending on the type of Power you're working for and what activities benefit that, you could manipulate the BGS into the states you need to maximise efficiency. That sounds like fun, and also largely how the BGS was intended to work.

I guess I still can't quite grasp the argument that most proponents of the BGS and PP being separated push being: 'minor faction x' has held a system for so long and now is being uncontrollably pushed out or expanding. That's the BGS doing what it's supposed to be doing, right? Flag planters should work for Powers, minor factions (player or otherwise) are there to add flavour and allow system state manipulations to create dynamic opportunities in gameplay.

I guess, in my non-BGS approach to the game, it would actually make more logical sense for PP to influence those minor factions more. I know that preferred government type was removed as an element of PP with the refresh, but I can't help but feel that minor factions that align with the Power in that system should see some benefit. As an example, Delaine space could provide INF boosts for anarchy and pirate factions, then Independent powers like Yuri would boost the INF gains of independently aligned factions in his space, and so on.
 
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territorialism
Deliberately starting a famine or wiping out settlements over and over to effect a political change? It's more akin to terrorism, either economic or militarily, than territoralism - at least from the PoV of players (independent pilots banding together) participating in it.
 
Superpower (Trillions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> Factional Power (Billions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> System Minor Faction (Millions of inhabitants of the galaxy) -> Rag tag group of Pilot's Federation pilots trying to influence the galaxy (A few hundred inhabitants of the galaxy)

Is that not how it should be?
That is an oversimplification in that the majority of the people you are counting in your numbers never actively participate.

Your several hundred people are active in their methods, therefore their influence is disproportional just as with any group of politicians.
 
That is an oversimplification in that the majority of the people you are counting in your numbers never actively participate.

Your several hundred people are active in their methods, therefore their influence is disproportional just as with any group of politicians.
It's a space sim that aims for realism. A group of a few hundred should not have an easy time undermining a galactic power who govern billions.
 
It's a space sim that aims for realism. A group of a few hundred should not have an easy time undermining a galactic power who govern billions.
That is realism, normal political process is done on a scale of roughly 1 to a thousand, 1 to ten thousand or more.

Have you never had a door knocker arrive at your house and try to sell you on their political candidate? This is an equivalence of what we are discussing.
 
It's a space sim that aims for realism. A group of a few hundred should not have an easy time undermining a galactic power who govern billions.
I tend to read this as players being deemed to be a statistically representative sample of the wider population.

So e.g. if two players decide that Li Yong-Rui is great and should be promoted in Betel (population about 400k) and put in 35000 merits between them, but one player decides that they should be opposed there and puts in 20000 counter merits ... then whatever decision making processes they used to determine what to do and for who are presumed to be representative of the decision making processes and preferences and efforts of the thousands of NPCs in the system too. Behind the scenes 20,000 people were working for Sirius and 10,000 people against (though the opposition worked a bit more effectively each on average).

It's not really the players making the change - in-universe, their presence was mostly irrelevant and the support of LYR by the Betel Nut Manufacturers Committee and the opposition by the Dockworkers' Union were what really made the difference.
 
That is realism, normal political process is done on a scale of roughly 1 to a thousand, 1 to ten thousand or more.

Have you never had a door knocker arrive at your house and try to sell you on their political candidate? This is an equivalence of what we are discussing.
Not had that happen to me in over twenty years, not even seen them about in maybe ten years. It is usually just a bunch of newsletters through the door just before the election, handy if you still have a real fireplace.
 
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