BGS - Impossible expansions and investment blocking states

[Saool]

The Pleiades is a good example of an area where you can see pointless blocker states. By this I mean the expansion > Investment states in areas where expansion is impossible. There are not many locations where this happens, but it is odd and it does have a lot of impact.

For example I have watched the fractions in the highly volatile Maia system, and the few surrounding systems with ports. What often happens is a given fraction will rise to a point were it could challenge a rival fraction for a port or whole system, but is blocked by a week of expansion and a week of investment, where such expansion is impossible. But by the time this double whammy has passed, there opportunity has passed. Success is as much about timing and pot luck as it is decisive action and indeed, success often scuppers itself due to this repeating cycle.

Would it not make more sense, for the BGS to run a check to see if an expansion will be possible, after a phase of investment, before a fraction goes into pending expansion in the first place? And if it is not, they simply don't go into these states as it just blocks them for the best part of two weeks, for nothing?

 

[the100thmonkey]

But expansion doesn't block conflict states, or am I losing my mind?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

AFAIK that's true (similar things happened in Colonia for all I know).

Unless other States take over and override (Elections/Wars), it's an endless cycle of Expansion(fail) -> Investment(fail).

I guess that's just where the current BGS ends, since there's no 3rd "Alright, we can't Expand nor Invest anywhere - so let's Colonize an uninhabited System" State.
Would be cool if there was, though... Alternatively, such a 3rd "Post-Failed-Investment" State could run to improve local Population and/or Station/Outpost/Base Services and Shipyard/Outfitting Quality for what it's worth.

 

[Jukelo]

The original idea was for minor factions to be able to exploit nearby empty systems, and potentially colonize them. One day hopefully.

 

[Saool]

Unless other States take over and override (Elections/Wars), it's an endless cycle of Expansion(fail) -> Investment(fail).

I'll can check in the BGS thread, but I'm not convinced that is the case any more, using the Pleiades as an example.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

What I think the BGS should do in this case is to use the investment to colonise a suitable uninhabited nearby system. Maybe it needs a third state after investment, "Colonising". It should have a dramatic drop in the influence to stop it happening too often.

 

[RamirezKurita]

It probably wouldn't be so bad if the factions tried to expand in general or tried to expand from better chosen systems. I've noticed out in Maia that the PRE always tries to expand from the same location, which happens to be on the opposite side of Maia to everything else and so their expansion attempt invariably fails as they are already present in every system in range. If they were to try to expand from some of their resupply bases that form the bridge to the bubble from Maia instead, they would then at least have the option of expanding into the bubble.

 

[the100thmonkey]

It probably wouldn't be so bad if the factions tried to expand in general or tried to expand from better chosen systems. I've noticed out in Maia that the PRE always tries to expand from the same location, which happens to be on the opposite side of Maia to everything else and so their expansion attempt invariably fails as they are already present in every system in range. If they were to try to expand from some of their resupply bases that form the bridge to the bubble from Maia instead, they would then at least have the option of expanding into the bubble.

That's more to do with players not knowing (or caring) what systems they push with missions.

The other systems will expand/invet too, given the chance.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

It probably wouldn't be so bad if the factions tried to expand in general or tried to expand from better chosen systems. I've noticed out in Maia that the PRE always tries to expand from the same location, which happens to be on the opposite side of Maia to everything else and so their expansion attempt invariably fails as they are already present in every system in range. If they were to try to expand from some of their resupply bases that form the bridge to the bubble from Maia instead, they would then at least have the option of expanding into the bubble.

That at least is controllable. The faction will expand from the first system to hit 75%.

The problem with some systems can be that trade hubs end up going into expansion all the time. So to force the BGS to do t=otherwise means you have to work against your faction where you don't want to expand from and push it up where you do. not always easy when there are lots of other players around doing their own thing.

 

[RamirezKurita]

That at least is controllable. The faction will expand from the first system to hit 75%.

The problem with some systems can be that trade hubs end up going into expansion all the time. So to force the BGS to do t=otherwise means you have to work against your faction where you don't want to expand from and push it up where you do. not always easy when there are lots of other players around doing their own thing.

Most of the PRE's systems they already control to 98-99% though, the one they are trying to expand from is actually one of their less controlled systems.

 

[Jmanis]

The investment state can also co-exist with other states. It's the only one that can do it.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Most of the PRE's systems they already control to 98-99% though, the one they are trying to expand from is actually one of their less controlled systems.

I suspect that there is a hard coded upper threshold on influence that stops factions like Jaques from trying to expand.

It might be worth boosting the influence of whatever other factions are present in these systems so PRE is down to 75%.

 

[Manticore]

AFAIK that's true (similar things happened in Colonia for all I know).

They didn't happen..... they are happening.

The whole colonisation has stalled because expansion has stalled. That's physical expansion requiring the installation of new bases, star-ports with shipyards and there is a need for comprehensive outfitting out here in Eol Prou sector.

Mission boards can be "volatile" but I'm making money hand over fist out here. I want to be able to buy ships here but, unless things change soon, I'm going to have to journey back to The Bubble to buy that Anaconda and fit her out properly.

Considering the distances to Eol Prou sector from The Bubble if Colonia goes the way the Pleiades, Robigo and Sothis/Ceos have gone the Colonia Expansion will fail.

 

[Saool]

I suspect that there is a hard coded upper threshold on influence that stops factions like Jaques from trying to expand.

It might be worth boosting the influence of whatever other factions are present in these systems so PRE is down to 75%.

PRE is only high is there more or less uncontested systems. They already lost the Gamma outpost to the Alliance and are now about to fight a war to stop the Empire taking one of there research bases (guess what I am doing tomorrow). But it is those small outlying outposts that cause this. It is easy for them to stay in the 80s and 90s so they go through endless cycles of expansion with no-where to go.

At the end of the day it is the same for all frations, but it does seem odd if a fraction is sat ready to take a system, but can't due to a doomed expansion... and then loses that opportunity.