I have heard that selling on the black market will lower the influence of the controlling station. Has anyone confirmed this to be true? If it is, will it also lower influence if you sell at a slight lost?
BGS noob question. Selling on black market to lower influence
- Thread starter Threeofseven
- Start date
Yes, blackmarket sales can tank a faction's inflence rather well.
Not sure about selling at a loss in a blackmarket. But I doubt it would help the controlling faction.
The best way is to frequently smuggle several different types of illegal goods.
Not sure about selling at a loss in a blackmarket. But I doubt it would help the controlling faction.
The best way is to frequently smuggle several different types of illegal goods.
It's kind of a shame that it applies to the anarchy (criminal / pirate factions).
It would be nice if black market trade had a positive effect on anarchy factions.
I do feel for the Pirates. Their job is tough and doesn't make much money, and their factions might as well have a big target painted on them.
It would be nice if black market trade had a positive effect on anarchy factions.
I do feel for the Pirates. Their job is tough and doesn't make much money, and their factions might as well have a big target painted on them.
More to the point - how can any true anarchy have a "blackmarket"? Surely it's an oxymoron?
Agreed. Iv suggested many times that FD allow any goods to be sold on the open market at Anarchy stations. If you can murder right outside the no fire zone with impunity you should be able to sell a ton of narcotics.
I wonder if Archon's PP dynamic undoes this, because I've sold probably 100 million credits of slaves to one station in Archon space and as far as I know the faction in control has just as much influence.
I am actually suspicious that anarchy factions are negatively effected by blackmarket sales. Iv actually only noticed positive effects after selling millions of illegal goods at one Anarchy station. With that being said, Anarchy stations should allow sales on open market.
Anarchy systems are big, fat exceptions to the way any other faction types work in the game. While they could definitely stand to be "fixed", I think the better move by FD would be to diversify all factions to be unique, not just anarchy. There's already some diversity around markets, but it could be better (variances in supply of goods based on economy + government, not just availability in terms of legality).
Anarchy factions have a unique mission set compared to other factions, where realistically it should be something like:
- Dictatorship/Feudal frequently have missions with a bent around security and information control contrary to their ruling ethos
- Corporate focus more on trade/mining
- Theocracy/cooperative have more missions to target smuggling/other illegal/immoral conduct
- Patronage/Democracy have more political/espionage missions
- Anarchy with their current subset of smuggling/piracy missions
Getting to some of the posts above though...
Anarchy != Criminal. Anarchy just means an absence of authority. Some examples of factions that could be anarchies that could suffer from black market trade:
- Vigilante justice groups (e.g a faction who defies all legal boundaries in order to bring down, say, smugglers)
- Fringe religious cults who respect no authority and their deity eschews authoritative systems
- Protection Racketeers (just because you *are* a criminal doesn't mean crimes you aren't party to can't affect you)
On the other side of the coin... the only things you can sell on anarchy black markets are:
- Stolen goods
- Illegal alien artefacts (UA/UP/UL/other thargoid relics... noting Guardian relics are entirely legal)
But lets assume anarchy == criminal for a moment... "stolen goods" are a complete misnomer in Anarchy factions; black markets should *not* exist in those markets, and the open market literally is *the* market. But if that were the case, the single case that wouldn't be resolved is the concept of stealing from a criminal faction and selling their own goods back to them. The game maintains no context of *who* you stole from, only that goods are stolen. ^^
Additionally, the markets are controlled by the criminal faction. "Black Markets" are also not exclusively for the sale of illegal goods, but clandestine markets which (often subversively) operate outside authorised market channels. In this case, the market is run by the criminals, therefore selling on a "black market", regardless of the legality of the goods, are merchant transactions that undermine the effectiveness of the market being run by criminals.
tl;dr you're cutting the criminals out of their cut of profits by selling on the black market, when the mainstream market is operated by criminals.
Meanwhile, UA/UP/ULs, given their impact on stations, should have a negative influence effect on *everyone*.
Refering back to the stolen goods/alien goods being the only goods sellable on an anarchy black market... you can't "buy" stolen goods; they're stolen i.e have zero cost. Same goes for alien artefacts.
Influence gains/losses are based on market profit margins. Goods with zero cost (stolen/salvaged/mined goods) had the impact of their sales reduced... so while millions in profit on the normal market will have a significant impact, you need far more (not sure exactly how much more) to turn influence when selling 0-cost goods.
^^ - Despite this anomaly, since FD nerfed rep gain for selling on the black market, you can no longer exploit the circle of "Accept mission from anarchy, abandon mission, sell goods back to anarchy, become allied, get free cash", so removing black markets from anarchy faction stations and allowing all goods (stolen + illegal) to be sold on the open market makes more sense than the current system, despite my comments about the meaning of anarchy.
Anarchy factions have a unique mission set compared to other factions, where realistically it should be something like:
- Dictatorship/Feudal frequently have missions with a bent around security and information control contrary to their ruling ethos
- Corporate focus more on trade/mining
- Theocracy/cooperative have more missions to target smuggling/other illegal/immoral conduct
- Patronage/Democracy have more political/espionage missions
- Anarchy with their current subset of smuggling/piracy missions
Getting to some of the posts above though...
Anarchy != Criminal. Anarchy just means an absence of authority. Some examples of factions that could be anarchies that could suffer from black market trade:
- Vigilante justice groups (e.g a faction who defies all legal boundaries in order to bring down, say, smugglers)
- Fringe religious cults who respect no authority and their deity eschews authoritative systems
- Protection Racketeers (just because you *are* a criminal doesn't mean crimes you aren't party to can't affect you)
On the other side of the coin... the only things you can sell on anarchy black markets are:
- Stolen goods
- Illegal alien artefacts (UA/UP/UL/other thargoid relics... noting Guardian relics are entirely legal)
But lets assume anarchy == criminal for a moment... "stolen goods" are a complete misnomer in Anarchy factions; black markets should *not* exist in those markets, and the open market literally is *the* market. But if that were the case, the single case that wouldn't be resolved is the concept of stealing from a criminal faction and selling their own goods back to them. The game maintains no context of *who* you stole from, only that goods are stolen. ^^
Additionally, the markets are controlled by the criminal faction. "Black Markets" are also not exclusively for the sale of illegal goods, but clandestine markets which (often subversively) operate outside authorised market channels. In this case, the market is run by the criminals, therefore selling on a "black market", regardless of the legality of the goods, are merchant transactions that undermine the effectiveness of the market being run by criminals.
tl;dr you're cutting the criminals out of their cut of profits by selling on the black market, when the mainstream market is operated by criminals.
Meanwhile, UA/UP/ULs, given their impact on stations, should have a negative influence effect on *everyone*.
Refering back to the stolen goods/alien goods being the only goods sellable on an anarchy black market... you can't "buy" stolen goods; they're stolen i.e have zero cost. Same goes for alien artefacts.
Influence gains/losses are based on market profit margins. Goods with zero cost (stolen/salvaged/mined goods) had the impact of their sales reduced... so while millions in profit on the normal market will have a significant impact, you need far more (not sure exactly how much more) to turn influence when selling 0-cost goods.
^^ - Despite this anomaly, since FD nerfed rep gain for selling on the black market, you can no longer exploit the circle of "Accept mission from anarchy, abandon mission, sell goods back to anarchy, become allied, get free cash", so removing black markets from anarchy faction stations and allowing all goods (stolen + illegal) to be sold on the open market makes more sense than the current system, despite my comments about the meaning of anarchy.
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The problem with this is it is easily exploitable. All you need is a mate to jettison a cargo full of goods, so they are now stolen.
You can do that, but to what end?
If you're trying to tank someone's influence by selling stolen goods on the black market, I'd argue the time it'd take to get those jetted goods into your hold (given the limit on the number of canisters you can jet into space... 20-something last I heard?) you'd be quicker to just go to a nearby market in a different system and buy some illegal goods... provided the nerf FD made to the influence effects of zero-cost goods means 100t of stolen palladium has a comparable negative effect to selling 100t of purchased palladium for 700+cr profit (or for selling 100t of illegal goods for a negative effect)
Yeah, its much more time/credit efficient to buy illegal stuff from a nearby system and sell it at the black market. Technically it is exploitable but that exploit is probably only useful in very limited circumstances (illegal goods not available locally, huge in system travel times). I would also have a question about whether goods bought and sold at the same station has an effect at all - despite the cargo being "laundered".
Much more fun too to run a shield-less smuggling ship!
Posted while I slipped 660t of Battle Weapons in a silent-running Cutter to avoid scans to a black market
When unlocking the engineer who wanted me to deal with (I forget how many) black markets, I hit on the idea of docking in a station, taking a delivery mission, cancelling the mission, then selling the mission goods in the black market. Then move on to the next place with nothing illegal in the hold. I wonder if that could be carried to extremes to mess with faction influence?
Not anymore.
Black market sales used to increase rep. It still does but dramatically less so, so much you would hit hostile worth everyone in system in no time. Canceling missions kills rep pretty quickly.
Since hostile is nothing but a punishment state, you wouldn't be able to dock and influence a wars outcome with bonds or help in an election.
Oh yes. I was doing it in a hit-and-run fashion once only, in systems where I didn't care about rep.