Biggest request for 2.3 or 2.4: Please let us make money.

[killerofstars]

Frontier,

The grind time for larger ships is utterly insane. And this is a game that strongly encourages owning multiple ships for multiple roles. Please, please stop being allergic to the player base making money. Please allow us to make money again. The current rates of income are painfully small for the amount of time involved.

Thank you.

EDIT 3:
Also for everyone saying: People just want instant gratification! Anacondas in a week! I am not advocating this. By the time you make it to the end game, and have spend years grinding up rep, rank, and a fleet of big ships, rewards should SCALE so that you can earn rebuys for your expensive ships in an hour. Please see update 2 below.

EDIT 2: Update

Okay, so a lot of folks are saying: Passenger missions have great payouts! Well, they're okay. They're not super great. But guess what, either way, such as they are? Passenger mission payouts are getting nerfed in 2.3.

Also, lets clarify something: Sure. Credits might rain from the skies when you're flying a 1 million Cobra or a 6 million Asp. If you fly a combat fit Anaconda or Corvette, you can have a rebuy from 35-50 million credits. You should be able to remake the credits from a shiploss, in my mind, in 1 hour. Especially since you can easily get back into your ship and then die again while trying to re-earn that initial investment. Even at 5 million an hour, you're looking at 6-10 hours of gametime just do come back from a single death. That's...absurd. 6 Hours is...an ENTIRE OTHER GAME where you aren't grinding and undoing your own losses, but having incredible cinematic experiences.

To people who say "Well the big 3 aren't fun!" Actually they are, but you're really missing the point. When you have two anacondas, progression should really switch over to engineers, not having to painfully grind for credits.

Everyone who says "1 million an hour is a fine payout!" Is also pretty consistently saying: Well I have enough fun in just my asp! Sure. A million credits is a lot when you fly an asp. Not when you're flying a 500 million corvette or a billion credit cutter.

EDIT:

FDEV: Earning credits will not drive players away. I have multiple ships, and I've played more and spent MORE time in game to engineer them, to try different loadouts. Players getting rich will not kill your player base.

1) A lot of people on this thread have made comments to the effect of "Oh please let me start in an anaconda!" "Oh you'd hate the game when it launched..." I wasn't a kickstarter backer. But I bought the game the day it was publicly available. Yes, I remember the times when money was even harder to make than it was now.

2) A lot of other people are saying: Well, you know, I make 1.5 million an hour doing X and that feels pretty good to me! Hey, cool. 1 Mill an hour is a reasonable payout after a few months in the game. An A rated imperial cutter not including armor or weapons costs 751 million credits. Now tell me it's reasonable to spend 500 (and .666 to be exact) hours grinding to earn that cutter. Sure, cash flow should be lower when you first start the game, but later on, cashflow should be more significant. You should be able to use your knowledge and experience to earn greater rewards.

 

[Zeeman]

We can make money already - heaps of it. Do a CG or something.

Z...

 

[Kaybe]

OP, credits are eeaally easy to make in this game. There IS grind, but not where credits are concerned.

 

[Devari]

Frontier,

The grind time for larger ships is utterly insane. And this is a game that strongly encourages owning multiple ships for multiple roles. Please, please stop being allergic to the player base making money. Please allow us to make money again. The current rates of income are painfully small for the amount of time involved.

Thank you.

FD does not want you to make money at this time.

Please try again later in 2-3 updates.

Thanks for your time.

I mean ... umm ....

Right on CMDR!

 

[NecasekO]

OP, can you please specify what activity is not paying enough? As others have said, there are multiple ways to make a lot of money.

Here are some examples (and they're probably not the best CR/time wise):
- Bounty hunting in Haz RES can bring 10 M in one evening
- Mining can earn 5-10 M per run
- Long range tourist missions pay up to 50-60 M per mission, with more than 10 M worth of exploration data that you pick on the way
- Short range trading missions can pay up to 2-3 M for a single jump trip
- CZ Massacre missions pay up to 10 M per mission, plus several million on combat bonds
- Assassination missions can pay 2-3 M for killing one ship
- Community goal rewards are often in 10-20 M range for higher tiers and sometimes much more

Most of these activities take some time (several hours) but it's perfectly possible to earn 200 M for a big ship in 2 weeks. And that's without any mission stacking or exploits. Buying an Anaconda used to be a big deal but it's not that difficult to buy these days.

 

[Devari]

The issue that the OP is referring to is that incomes for most activities were dramatically nerfed with the changes to mission incomes with 2.2. Bounty hunting used to be upwards of 5 mil/hr in a HazRES, now that is around 2 mil/hr. The prior Sothis runs were giving 8-10 mil/hr in a Python or 12-15 mil/hr in an Anaconda which was a very reasonable income level given the rebuy on these ships. These incomes are now nerfed down to around 5 mil/hr on average with the Sothis nerf. Basically most lucrative activities are reduced to maybe 40% of what they used to be. That means earning credits for a large ship takes 2-3X longer than it used to.

OP, can you please specify what activity is not paying enough? As others have said, there are multiple ways to make a lot of money.

Sorry, but for this list to be useful to the OP you really need to specify the ship required and the credits per hour. You are just quoting large numbers without putting them into context and that is rather misleading.

Here are some examples (and they're probably not the best CR/time wise):
- Bounty hunting in Haz RES can bring 10 M in one evening

Bounty hunting in my Fer-de-Lance in 2.2.03 currently brings in only 2 mil/hr in a HighRES or HazRES. That would be closer to 1.5 mil/hr in a Vulture and even less in other ships. That is a dramatic nerf compared to the 4-5 mil/hr I was making in my FAS prior to Horizons.

- Mining can earn 5-10 M per run

What ship? And what length of "run"? Sort of matters here given that mining requires a specific build (that is useful ONLY for mining) and is one of the most boring activities in the game.

- Long range tourist missions pay up to 50-60 M per mission, with more than 10 M worth of exploration data that you pick on the way

Again, you forgot to mention that those are 20 kly trips to Colonia. That requires at least 20 hours EACH way, maintaining a rate of 1000 ly/hr, which is at best 1.5 million/hr.

- Short range trading missions can pay up to 2-3 M for a single jump trip

These are probably the best value per time, but again you need to specify where to find them. Most trading missions are nowhere near this lucrative. Sothis is currently only paying around 2 million to haul 60-80 tons back to the bubble, which is 400-450 ly distance each way.

- CZ Massacre missions pay up to 10 M per mission, plus several million on combat bonds

The massacre mission stacking is basically an exploit and is being nerfed. But sure, get them while you can.

- Assassination missions can pay 2-3 M for killing one ship

That requires a well outfitted combat ship and quite a bit of searching.

- Community goal rewards are often in 10-20 M range for higher tiers and sometimes much more

That type of reward is for the top 25% or top 10% usually, and usually requires at least 4-6 hours of trading depending on your ship, which is only 2-3 mil/hr on average. You can probably make top 25% with an Anaconda or Type 9 but good luck getting to the top 10% or higher for those CGs without a Cutter which dominates the trading these days.

Most of these activities take some time (several hours) but it's perfectly possible to earn 200 M for a big ship in 2 weeks. And that's without any mission stacking or exploits. Buying an Anaconda used to be a big deal but it's not that difficult to buy these days.

Making 200 million in "two weeks" isn't a meaningful statement unless you correlate it with typical hours of gameplay. For the current state of RES bounty hunting at 2 mil/hr that is 100 hours. To do that in 2 weeks works out to 50 hours/week which is a full-time job. For Sothis runs, currently at around 5 mil/hr, that is still 40 hours, which is 20 hours/week, which is a part-time job. Players who have an actual job or are attending school full-time don't have 20-50 hours per week to put into Elite to make that 200 million.

Also 200 million is not enough for an Anaconda. You can get an A-grade Python for under 200 million with 20-50 million credits left over for rebuys depending on loadout. It does not buy you an Anaconda that will survive combat or interdictions, which requires around 400-500 million for an A-grade fit. Also keep in mind that is only the purchase price for a stock A-grade ship. It does not even include the time spent on Engineering mods which are still time consuming to obtain and are essential for any type of combat unless you enjoy seeing the rebuy screen.

So no, you can't really get to a big ship like an Anaconda in "two weeks". You can't even really get to a Python in two weeks unless you're playing 20-50 hours per week. Realistically if you are playing 10 hours/week (which is the most that many players can spend on gaming) and making between 2-5 mil/hr you are looking at around 1-3 months for a Python or 2-6 months for an Anaconda at the current income rates. With the Sothis trading incomes that were typical prior to 2.2 you could do this in around 40% of that time, which was around 2-6 weeks for a Python or 1-3 months for an Anaconda, which was a much more reasonable grind.

 

[Wylie28]

This will never be an instant gratification game. If you don't like grinding then don't grind. There is zero reason to repeat any activity. Just play the game money will come to you on its own. Most ED players thoroughly enjoy the feeling of unlocking the Anaconda after playing for a longer period of time. Unlocking it quickly makes it feeling meaningless and hardly an accomplishment at all. Those are the people who this game is ultimately designed for. If you are a grinder and or don't have patience quit ED now. It will NEVER suit you. If anything money comes too quickly and it needs slowed down.

 

[Barking_Mad]

FD does not want you to make money at this time.

Please try again later in 2-3 updates.

Thanks for your time.

I mean ... umm ....

Right on CMDR!

Pathetic.

 

[Punished Mobius]

Money...MONEY....MONEY! What the heck are you smoking? Money is everywhere you look. Bounties are everywhere. Combat Zones are aplenty missions just as much so. Money is the last problem in this game. You earn money for almost everything you do. And with this next update you won't even have to do most of the work anymore.

Wait until the 2.3 patch drops and join my Crewvette I'll make you some money.

You can just sit back and call me Sugardaddy Mobius.

 

[nanite2000]

FD does not want you to make money at this time.

Please try again later in 2-3 updates.

Thanks for your time.

I mean ... umm ....

Right on CMDR!

You're on my ignore list because of your endless drivel, yet I am still forced to read your comments when they are quoted by users who aren't.

It is both sad and gratifying that you are still unable to post anything worthwhile.

 

[Devari]

Wait until the 2.3 patch drops and join my Crewvette I'll make you some money.

You can just sit back and call me Sugardaddy Mobius.

I suspect that this will solve many players money problems as long as they have someone with a big ship to join. For players who don't, or for solo players, they are still stuck with low incomes that are around 40% of what they could typically make prior to 2.2.

You're on my ignore list because of your endless drivel, yet I am still forced to read your comments when they are quoted by users who aren't.

It is both sad and gratifying that you are still unable to post anything worthwhile.

It's quite amusing to me that someone finds it necessary to ignore me, but then simultaneously also finds it necessary to respond to my posts that are directed entirely to OTHER PEOPLE on these forums.

I'm confused. Do you want to ignore me, or not? Because you are not doing a very good job of it right now.

 

[ThirdNostril]

umm you can money quite easily in this game.

1. make enough for a d rated asp with A rated frame shift drive. the money needed is a spit in a bucket
2. get 6c first class passenger cabin
3. make stupid money in a system where you're allied with all factions. I've seen sight seeing missions pay anywhere between 2mil and a whopping 30 mil just for visiting 3 to 4 locations.

If you're into combat go to a hires or hazres, there's really no difference imo, bring a warrant scanner, make 2 million easily an hour and at the same time you're gaining faction rep
take assassination missions.

again, to make money through missions you need to be allied with the factions that issue said missions.

I made 330mil in the past 3 weeks doing various tasks.

 

[Punished Mobius]

I suspect that this will solve many players money problems as long as they have someone with a big ship to join. For players who don't, or for solo players, they are still stuck with low incomes that are around 40% of what they could typically make prior to 2.2.



It's quite amusing to me that someone finds it necessary to ignore me, but then simultaneously also finds it necessary to respond to my posts that directed entirely to OTHER PEOPLE on these forums.

I'm confused. Do you want to ignore me, or not? Because you are not doing a very good job of it right now.

Well the entire point of the matchmaker will be to pair up the big ships. So there shouldn't be any problems finding a battleship to serve on if the system works correctly. (Pffftt fat chance)

 

[Captain Willard]

I suspect that this will solve many players money problems as long as they have someone with a big ship to join. For players who don't, or for solo players, they are still stuck with low incomes that are around 40% of what they could typically make prior to 2.2.

HUH? What? I fly solo and have made more money since 2.2 than ever before.

 

[Stealthie]

Within the last week or so I've raised the cash to buy a Type 9 and a Python, using my AspX to do fairly mundane missions.

 

[IceFire122]

Again, you forgot to mention that those are 20 kly trips to Colonia. That requires at least 20 hours EACH way, maintaining a rate of 1000 ly/hr, which is at best 1.5 million/hr.

Indeed, the long range ones are more of an add-on payment, if you want to do the trip anyway.

But try the 2-3 stops short range ones around the bubble. I had some of those pay in excess of 10 million Cr for roughly 1 hr of work. You need to find a well frequented system which enters boom state often for these mission to generate, but you can do them in an Asp or even smaller.
I was also surprised about the views on some of the trips. Hence, they combine fun (new views) with more than decent earnings.

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

Frontier,

The grind time for larger ships is utterly insane. And this is a game that strongly encourages owning multiple ships for multiple roles. Please, please stop being allergic to the player base making money. Please allow us to make money again. The current rates of income are painfully small for the amount of time involved.

Thank you.

I know right? Why can't the game be over already???

 

[Punished Mobius]

I suspect that this will solve many players money problems as long as they have someone with a big ship to join. For players who don't, or for solo players, they are still stuck with low incomes that are around 40% of what they could typically make prior to 2.2.

HUH? What? I fly solo and have made more money since 2.2 than ever before.

Here you dropped this...

Yeah and I also am suspicious of that 40% number. I have kind of stopped paying attention to money but I certainly didn't notice such a drastic drop in creds per hour.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

How is money hard to make in this game? I pull in around 8-9 million/hr in my asp pirating low temp diamonds. Before I had my asp, I was in a cobra mk4 doing the same thing and raking in around 1.2 million per run (around 20 minutes). I just moved up to a python, though I'm still seeing if I like it before I decide to keep it. I'm tempted just to stick with the asp to be honest.

Bigger doesn't mean better.

You can do high ranking assassination missions in an eagle if you're good enough. You don't even need to engineer it very much.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

If anything, I think they need to TONE DOWN the rate at which we earn credits....or else have a lot more things that can drain our coffers.