Black Market Sales: Am I missing something?

[Jmanis]

So, I have a cargohold full of Battle Weapons legally purchased off a nearby market, which I'm trying to sell on the Black Market. I purchased them for roughly 6,600 credits per unit.

Note, they are Illegal only, not stolen:

Something stolen, for reference:

Spoiler

When going to the black market, I'm greeted with this screen:

I read that as being able to sell my battle weapons for 7,520 per unit, so about 900cr profit per unit.

I hit sell and see this:

5,640 cr per unit, so a total 230k loss.

Profit isn't my jam here... rather trying to cause negative effects... but my understanding was that Black Market sales only attracted a markdown if they were stolen, rather than just illegal.

Anyone know what's going on here? Or should I report a bug? No power is affecting this system.

 

[Dommarraa]

Gave up smuggling for bgs when 5mcr of profit gave me virtually 0 effect. I normally stuck to Narcotics and tobacco, and always made a profit.

Do not question the BGS, they have anonamised meta data in sweet curvy lines that proves that everything is working as expected. It's just garbage, but don't let that effect anything.

 

[Factabulous]

I think it's been reported before, think it's been talked about. This maybe? https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/806

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

In your first screen grab it shows the galactic average price for the unit as 7,388cr, you’re selling them at 5,640cr per unit. Perhaps it’s that?

 

[Stealthie]

In your first screen grab it shows the galactic average price for the unit as 7,388cr, you’re selling them at 5,640cr per unit. Perhaps it’s that?

Pretty sure that's how it used to work.
I know, in the past, I've mined ore and been told I'm making a "loss" because I'm selling it at below the galactic average.
Seems like the game always predicted "profit" based on the galactic average rather than on your specific buying-price.
I think that might've changed recently, though.

In the OP's case, however, I can't help noticing that earning Cr5640/t for something that's valued at Cr7520/t is a deficit of precisely 25%.
Could that be, perhaps, the result of SLF pilots taking a combined slice of 25%?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Pretty sure that's how it used to work.
I know, in the past, I've mined ore and been told I'm making a "loss" because I'm selling it at below the galactic average.
Seems like the game always predicted "profit" based on the galactic average rather than on your specific buying-price.
I think that might've changed recently, though.

In the OP's case, however, I can't help noticing that earning Cr5640/t for something that's valued at Cr7520/t is a deficit of precisely 25%.
Could that be, perhaps, the result of SLF pilots taking a combined slice of 25%?

As I posted it I second guessed it because I have found salvage on a planet surface and sold it well below galactic average and it has still given me a green profit. SLF could be a good shout. Either way, the moral is, crime doesn’t pay.

 

[Jmanis]

In your first screen grab it shows the galactic average price for the unit as 7,388cr, you’re selling them at 5,640cr per unit. Perhaps it’s that?

Yes, the first screenshot shows the galactic average of 7,388cr yes, but the picture below lists the sale price as 7,520.

Sales on the normal commodity market, the price that appears there is the price that it sells for (i.e 7,520 in this case).

Historically, if the item is stolen, the reduced price is displayed in this column. I'm about to verify with some stolen materials, so I'll get some more screenshots to verify.

 

[Jmanis]

As I posted it I second guessed it because I have found salvage on a planet surface and sold it well below galactic average and it has still given me a green profit. SLF could be a good shout. Either way, the moral is, crime doesn’t pay.

Except, illegal goods are meant to pay better than standard market sales due to the risk of fines.

The way it's meant to work is:

• Standard trading exploits states and gives a more reliable income source.
• Black markets pay more for illegal, non-stolen goods, because black markets are less common, and the risk of fines
• Illegal goods sell for (running with Stealthie's comment) 25% less as the penalty as they need to be fenced, and realistically you paid 0 for them.

In your planetary salvage example, it's highly likely because there's no demand for the goods. If there's no demand (as opposed to low demand, which exists for the Battle Weapons) there is a significant markdown. But again, that will display in the sale column.

Again, I'll get more screenshots to support this in a bit.

EDIT: Also, again, worth noting, I'm not in this for the cash, I'm in it for the economic damage and influence drop, so losing cash is "fine"... but this looks like a bug.

 

[Stealthie]

Illegal goods sell for (running with Stealthie's comment) 25% less as the penalty as they need to be fenced, and realistically you paid 0 for them.

Not something I pay a lot of attention to so I don't know...

If you've got stolen goods, and they have a reduced value, shouldn't the reduced value be what's displayed as the selling-price?

Seems like ED could do with a more detailed break-down of costings if stuff like this is happening.

 

[Jmanis]

If you've got stolen goods, and they have a reduced value, shouldn't the reduced value be what's displayed as the selling-price?

Correct, and that's what I'm verifying right now... though it's only stolen goods. Illegal-only goods are meant to get a small mark-up to incentivise smuggling.

PS: Thanks for the link @Factabulous , voted + added reproduction, as that's exactly what I'm seeing.

2nd Edit: Yep, definitely confirmed a bug... picture-spam inbound.

 

[Stealthie]

Correct, and that's what I'm verifying right now... though it's only stolen goods. Illegal-only goods are meant to get a small mark-up to incentivise smuggling.

PS: Thanks for the link @Factabulous , voted + added reproduction, as that's exactly what I'm seeing.

2nd Edit: Yep, definitely confirmed a bug... picture-spam inbound.

And, just to be clear, I take it you don't have SLF jockeys who might be hoovering up 25% of your income?

 

[Jmanis]

So, all other permutations of items (Stock in demand, stock with no demand, stolen goods) all display the same price between displays. Illegal goods are the only ones where there's a mismatch.

So, selling these four item types to an Extraction economy with a black market. Nonlethal weapons, Battle Weapons and Bioreducing Lichen all typically have non-zero demand, Agri-medicines is unwanted

Bioreducing Lichen Sale - Has demand, is legal. Listed price 1,304 (above galactic average, as expected) sale price 1,304cr

Spoiler

Agri-medicines: No demand, is legal, attracts a significant markdown as it's an unwanted item. Listed price 583, sale price 583

Spoiler

Stolen Non-lethal weapons. Marked down significantly as they are stolen (galactic average =~1900). Listed price 1,571cr, sale price 1,571cr. Parity again... noting it's all profit because the cost of goods is 0cr.

Spoiler

But battle weapons has a mismatch. Goods are illegal, so listed price is above the galactic average as this is the "incentive" to smuggle at 7,520... but the sale price listed is different at 5,820

Spoiler

So, it's the only situation where there's a mismatch between the price on the market list and the actual displayed sale.... but yeah, Fact's link above at least verifies this... which is the answer I was looking for.

 

[Jmanis]

And, just to be clear, I take it you don't have SLF jockeys who might be hoovering up 25% of your income?

I have pilots, but not to the tune of 25%... besides the above pretty clearly demonstrates the mismatch. The way payments to crew work is that the game displays the full value you're due to receive, but then only credits the reduced amount (and this is the source of a lot of complaints about missing payment).

e.g If you stood to receive 100,000 credits and had crew garnishing 10%, you see the full profit margin of 100,000cr, but on confirmation will only be credited 90,000cr

To verify that... sale of the lichen:

my balance is 323,728,335
New Balance is

Which is 3,857, not 3,912, so the displayed figure is not garnished for crew wages.

 

[Raino]

I have pilots, but not to the tune of 25%... besides the above pretty clearly demonstrates the mismatch. The way payments to crew work is that the game displays the full value you're due to receive, but then only credits the reduced amount (and this is the source of a lot of complaints about missing payment).

e.g If you stood to receive 100,000 credits and had crew garnishing 10%, you see the full profit margin of 100,000cr, but on confirmation will only be credited 90,000cr

yes, and? you have to pay them, whats the mismatch? wondering...

 

[Old Duck]

EDIT: Also, again, worth noting, I'm not in this for the cash, I'm in it for the economic damage and influence drop, so losing cash is "fine"... but this looks like a bug.

So if I wanted to prevent someone from doing this to me, my two options are to force the local anarchists to retreat from the system or bring in a "Kingpin" (PowerPlay leader) who shuts down black markets, correct?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Don't SLF pilots take chunks off the profits, not the transaction? It seems more than a coincidence that 25% is the markdown for stolen goods at the black market and that is the markdown being seen for smuggled goods.

Thanks OP. Useful tip here to keep smuggling limited to missions offered by the anarchy factions and for BGS manipulations I'll stick with blowing up security forces.

 

[Jmanis]

So if I wanted to prevent someone from doing this to me, my two options are to force the local anarchists to retreat from the system or bring in a "Kingpin" (PowerPlay leader) who shuts down black markets, correct?

I'll pm you in a bit.

yes, and? you have to pay them, whats the mismatch? wondering...

I was showing the displayed figure wasn't pre- garnished for wages... which was a suggested cause for the bug in illegal goods sale price.

 

[Jenner]

Closed at request of OP.