Bounties give me bounties :facepalm:

[Ydiss]

They're wanted in the jurisdiction that issued the mission.

They're not wanted on their home turf.

Explicitly, bounties are not globally recognised things.

That's not what happened here.

If the target is criminal, take downs don't show as purple/illegal. You can safely go to the target destination and kill them and not get notoriety or a bounty (you can, of course, still get attacked, but that's got nothing to do with bounties). What happened here is the target fled to another body where the owning faction is not criminal.

And this, to me, is an oversight by FD, not intended behaviour. In no way does this happen in a ship version of this mission type, irrespective of the final location the ship is killed. It's a criminal target for execution, it should have a bounty, it should be legal (i.e. not punishable by bounty) to kill them anywhere, in my opinion. The fact target flees and... oh wow now we're the criminal, is just dumb from a game play perspective. And I wish FD would have caught this when they added this mission "wrinkle".

One of the more annoying "features" of EDO, for me.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

That's not what happened here.

If the target is criminal, take downs don't show as purple/illegal. You can safely go to the target destination and kill them and not get notoriety or a bounty (you can, of course, still get attacked, but that's got nothing to do with bounties). What happened here is the target fled to another body where the owning faction is not criminal.

And this, to me, is an oversight by FD, not intended behaviour. In no way does this happen in a ship version of this mission type, irrespective of the final location the ship is killed. It's a criminal target for execution, it should have a bounty, it should be legal (i.e. not punishable by bounty) to kill them anywhere, in my opinion. The fact target flees and... oh wow now we're the criminal, is just dumb from a game play perspective. And I wish FD would have caught this when they added this mission "wrinkle".

One of the more annoying "features" of EDO, for me.

Just scan them with the profile tool before shooting them and you won't get a bounty. They do immediately become hostile, but there's the boxes, their ship, and your ship, hopefully with shields, to duck behind.

It's my favourite mission update specifically because don't have to worry about sneaking into a settlement.
Instead I land right on top of them, scan them, apply plasma buckshot, and reboard my ship all within 20ish seconds.

 

[Ydiss]

Just scan them with the profile tool before shooting them and you won't get a bounty. They do immediately become hostile, but there's the boxes, their ship, and your ship, hopefully with shields, to duck behind.

It's my favourite mission update specifically because don't have to worry about sneaking into a settlement.
Instead I land right on top of them, scan them, apply plasma buckshot, and reboard my ship all within 20ish seconds.

I always thought that didn't work, at least when I did it ages ago (if any NPC has a bounty but they're in a jurisdiction that isn't anarchy, scanning them for their bounty makes no odds, you always get a bounty... conversely, you never need to scan first before killing any NPC, bounty or none, if the location is anarchy), but I concede I may be wrong and that it may have always worked this way, which would be fine (or maybe it changed). I'll try it next time. With this working as you say, you don't even need to agro them if you stay out of sight.

Edit: Got one where the target is fleeing right away, first mission I tried, so here goes

Edit 2: Did it and it's just as I remember... "no bounty detected". No dice. You don't get notoriety at least, as that's lenient on single target take downs. But you get a bounty because... they don't have one and the locality isn't anarchy any more and the way this game generally spawns NPCs is whatever locality they're at, that's functionally their faction (and this is why I think it's an oversight because their faction/state). This is how I recall it so I've no idea how it works for you. Maybe it randomly works? You did appear to suggest this works every time.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

I always thought that didn't work, at least when I did it ages ago (if any NPC has a bounty but they're in a jurisdiction that isn't anarchy, scanning them for their bounty makes no odds, you always get a bounty... conversely, you never need to scan first before killing any NPC, bounty or none, if the location is anarchy), but I concede I may be wrong and that it may have always worked this way, which would be fine (or maybe it changed). I'll try it next time. With this working as you say, you don't even need to agro them if you stay out of sight.

Edit: Got one where the target is fleeing right away, first mission I tried, so here goes

Edit 2: Did it and it's just as I remember... "no bounty detected". No dice. You don't get notoriety at least, as that's lenient on single target take downs. But you get a bounty because... they don't have one and the locality isn't anarchy any more and the way this game generally spawns NPCs is whatever locality they're at, that's functionally their faction (and this is why I think it's an oversight because their faction/state). This is how I recall it so I've no idea how it works for you. Maybe it randomly works? You did appear to suggest this works every time.

Just did one to test it.

Initially the target wasn't wanted, so I scanned them with the profile analyzer (while making sure they didn't see the scan so I don't aggro them if they are wanted), they then had a bounty (with the "bounty detected" sound cue) and Intimidator.

That's what happens on every mission I take that has the target fled update. No idea what the difference between us could be.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They're wanted in the jurisdiction that issued the mission.

They're not wanted on their home turf.

Explicitly, bounties are not globally recognised things.

OT a bit:

Ironically the reverse is (or was, I haven't tried it in ages) true as well- if you are wanted, and have a BH on your tail drop into a non affiliated CZ and let the BH shoot you- he automatically becomes a combatant and subject to CZ bonuses (on top of any other bounties scanned for). IIRC you don't get any bounties issued against you / notoriety because its a neutral area (although you'd have to test that today to make sure).

In short a lot, if not all of EDs bounty system is situational.

 

[Jmanis]

OT a bit:

Ironically the reverse is (or was, I haven't tried it in ages) true as well- if you are wanted, and have a BH on your tail drop into a non affiliated CZ and let the BH shoot you- he automatically becomes a combatant and subject to CZ bonuses (on top of any other bounties scanned for). IIRC you don't get any bounties issued against you / notoriety because its a neutral area (although you'd have to test that today to make sure).

In short a lot, if not all of EDs bounty system is situational.

yeah look... FD don't seem to know if they want C&P to be:

• a legitimate career option, or
• a punitive measure for failure

There's insufficient rewards for it to be the former, which prevents it being effectively used for the latter... and leads to threads like this where there's some convoluted system which protects people from their own actions which, bluntly, should have consequences... but because crime results in pretty substandard rewards, it legitimises complaints where people get a criminal record for, funnily enough, committing crime, because of a preconception that "it's a mission, so i shouldn't become a criminal".

In actuality, yes, you committed crime, and should wear that consequence, but that should equally be "fine "... and it's FDs fence- sitting that makes this a problem.

 

[Rubbernuke]

yeah look... FD don't seem to know if they want C&P to be:

• a legitimate career option, or
• a punitive measure for failure

There's insufficient rewards for it to be the former, which prevents it being effectively used for the latter... and leads to threads like this where there's some convoluted system which protects people from their own actions which, bluntly, should have consequences... but because crime results in pretty substandard rewards, it legitimises complaints where people get a criminal record for, funnily enough, committing crime, because of a preconception that "it's a mission, so i shouldn't become a criminal".

In actuality, yes, you committed crime, and should wear that consequence, but that should equally be "fine "... and it's FDs fence- sitting that makes this a problem.

Thats very true- and as we have discussed over the years FD could do both very easily (and have an excellent opportunity with PP2 to do just that...).

 

[Ydiss]

Just did one to test it.

Initially the target wasn't wanted, so I scanned them with the profile analyzer (while making sure they didn't see the scan so I don't aggro them if they are wanted), they then had a bounty (with the "bounty detected" sound cue) and Intimidator.

That's what happens on every mission I take that has the target fled update. No idea what the difference between us could be.

I'm 90% sure that the difference will be the location. If the body they flee to is owned by anarchy anyway, it doesn't matter, you'll not get a bounty penalty. You never need to scan anything to freely kill it if it's an anarchy location. You only even need to scan to get the bounty reward if they're not a scavenger.

I can recreate this issue easy. In fact, I'll do that later and record it and share the link here.

The only third possible scenario is where both of our scenarios are true, where them having a bounty is random, and that scanning them, as you suggest, prevents penalty. But then you'd have run across my scenario by now if that were true, so I can't imagine that's how it works. It's possible you only take missions like this where the target system has high anarchy faction influence, which would mean there's a larger chance the flee location is owned by anarchy. That would certainly work. But if that's the scenario then you can scan them anytime you like, even after they're dead.

The reason I don't like taking these missions is that I know 100% that my scenario is a thing. So even if you're right, there's no control over it. It can go wrong.

 

[Aerendyl]

I'm 90% sure that the difference will be the location. If the body they flee to is owned by anarchy anyway, it doesn't matter, you'll not get a bounty penalty. You never need to scan anything to freely kill it if it's an anarchy location. You only even need to scan to get the bounty reward if they're not a scavenger.

I can recreate this issue easy. In fact, I'll do that later and record it and share the link here.

The only third possible scenario is where both of our scenarios are true, where them having a bounty is random, and that scanning them, as you suggest, prevents penalty. But then you'd have run across my scenario by now if that were true, so I can't imagine that's how it works. It's possible you only take missions like this where the target system has high anarchy faction influence, which would mean there's a larger chance the flee location is owned by anarchy. That would certainly work. But if that's the scenario then you can scan them anytime you like, even after they're dead.

The reason I don't like taking these missions is that I know 100% that my scenario is a thing. So even if you're right, there's no control over it. It can go wrong.

Exactly, these missions have to be treated as illegal because they can end up being illegal. Quite often I am avoiding illegal missions because I don't have time for the find-a-factor hand-yourself-in jazz. I guess I need to check if the planet they fled to is owned by an anarchy faction and abandon the mission if not.

 

[Nowski]

The caveat to that is when the target flees

I remember from somewhere you can avoid having the target flee by taking an Apex to their initial location instead of using your own ship. Do you know if this is true?

 

[Ydiss]

I remember from somewhere you can avoid having the target flee by taking an Apex to their initial location instead of using your own ship. Do you know if this is true?

Yes, so far as I know this is true.

It does, however, require that one wants to actually use Apex for anything

 

[Ydiss]

Exactly, these missions have to be treated as illegal because they can end up being illegal. Quite often I am avoiding illegal missions because I don't have time for the find-a-factor hand-yourself-in jazz. I guess I need to check if the planet they fled to is owned by an anarchy faction and abandon the mission if not.

I'm going to do some proper testing of this to actually nail down how it works but my initial testing has shown that, and I will confirm this if I can, the target having a bounty or not is entirely random.

I'm going to run some more scenarios but this is what I've found so far (to be continued):

1. You can take a "legal" take down, they flee to an "illegal" location, you profile scan them, they don't have a bounty (you get a bounty)
2. You can take a "legal" take down, they flee to an "illegal" location, you profile scan them, they do have a bounty (you don't get a bounty)

Deductions so far based on this:

1. The target location in both cases was owned by a legal faction, so the owning faction of the target location has no bearing on the fleeing target having a bounty.

That's all I can deduce so far.

What I'm going to test:

1. All of the above but you kill the target, then profile scan them (to see if you get a bounty or not, whether scanning is essential or not - this may require a lot of tests and a lot of bounties on me )
2. All of the above but you find them at an anarchy owned location (and this might take a very long time to actually get to happen), try killing them without a scan.
3. Try to find a bounty target via profile scan at a non-anarchy settlement and kill them.
4. Potentially do the same but scan after kills. I may not bother with this one though, depending on the outcome of earlier tests.

What I'm hoping to deduce:

1. For a fleeing target, is it essential to profile scan them first?
2. And so, is it the profile scan revealing the bounty that removes illegality of the kill? Or is it the bounty?
3. Maybe, though unlikely, can we control the fact they have a bounty or not to avoid the illegal outcome of this mission type? For this, I'd need to spot a pattern with the targets who do have a bounty, so this is up in the air.
4. Does profile scanning to reveal a bounty negate a penalty in a non-anarchy location? (some might already have the answer to this but I'd prefer to find out myself)

If the conclusion is the profile scanner is the way to avoid penalties if the target is a criminal... why did FD decide on foot would work so wildly differently to in ship?

I'm fortunate that my home/colony has an IF contact that I can use to clean these bounties immediately (due to no notoriety for these missions). I prefer not to take them but when I was hunting materials... sometimes those 15+ manufacturing instructions can't be passed up. What I'd prefer is if the mission says it's legal, the target should automatically always have a bounty. Because then I'd like doing these missions a lot. To make my point clear, this is what I think is messed up (I'd be fine with needing to scan a fleeing target first... I'd be miffed by the inconsistency of it, but I'd accept it... What I don't accept as intended is these literal bounty hunting targets not having a bounty - this directly contradicts how the ship versions of these missions work - you never, ever, get penalised for killing a legal take down target, irrespective of the location).

Just to be clear for anyone new who may be reading all this, a target doesn't normally have to have a bounty for you to cleanly kill them in a settlement that is owned by an anarchy faction. Some have a bounty, some don't. You get no penalty (scanning them or not) because the location itself has no law. This has been long known. This is why I never thought the profile scanner had anything to do with it. Indeed, there is no scenario outside of the fleeing take down missions (and nowadays, I think, the PP2.0 agents?) where it's even possible to find a mix of anarchy and non-anarchy targets in any location. They're always the same faction (I don't include the protect missions, legality has no bearing there, just like CZs). And whenever, wherever, you find scavengers, they're always a criminal faction - you can always kill them, no penalty, no need to scan them first (in fact, scanning them after the fact rewards you nothing, you get the bounty on kill). It doesn't matter where they are. So why isn't that the case for these literal criminals we're hunting?

It is... just too confusing for the average player and I wish FD had fully fleshed this out early on.

 

[Aerendyl]

I'm going to do some proper testing of this to actually nail down how it works but my initial testing has shown that, and I will confirm this if I can, the target having a bounty or not is entirely random.

I'm going to run some more scenarios but this is what I've found so far (to be continued):

1. You can take a "legal" take down, they flee to an "illegal" location, you profile scan them, they don't have a bounty (you get a bounty)
2. You can take a "legal" take down, they flee to an "illegal" location, you profile scan them, they do have a bounty (you don't get a bounty)

Deductions so far based on this:

1. The target location in both cases was owned by a legal faction, so the owning faction of the target location has no bearing on the fleeing target having a bounty.

That's all I can deduce so far.

What I'm going to test:

1. All of the above but you kill the target, then profile scan them (to see if you get a bounty or not, whether scanning is essential or not - this may require a lot of tests and a lot of bounties on me )
2. All of the above but you find them at an anarchy owned location (and this might take a very long time to actually get to happen), try killing them without a scan.
3. Try to find a bounty target via profile scan at a non-anarchy settlement and kill them.
4. Potentially do the same but scan after kills. I may not bother with this one though, depending on the outcome of earlier tests.

What I'm hoping to deduce:

1. For a fleeing target, is it essential to profile scan them first?
2. And so, is it the profile scan revealing the bounty that removes illegality of the kill? Or is it the bounty?
3. Maybe, though unlikely, can we control the fact they have a bounty or not to avoid the illegal outcome of this mission type? For this, I'd need to spot a pattern with the targets who do have a bounty, so this is up in the air.
4. Does profile scanning to reveal a bounty negate a penalty in a non-anarchy location? (some might already have the answer to this but I'd prefer to find out myself)

If the conclusion is the profile scanner is the way to avoid penalties if the target is a criminal... why did FD decide on foot would work so wildly differently to in ship?

I'm fortunate that my home/colony has an IF contact that I can use to clean these bounties immediately (due to no notoriety for these missions). I prefer not to take them but when I was hunting materials... sometimes those 15+ manufacturing instructions can't be passed up. What I'd prefer is if the mission says it's legal, the target should automatically always have a bounty. Because then I'd like doing these missions a lot. To make my point clear, this is what I think is messed up (I'd be fine with needing to scan a fleeing target first... I'd be miffed by the inconsistency of it, but I'd accept it... What I don't accept as intended is these literal bounty hunting targets not having a bounty - this directly contradicts how the ship versions of these missions work - you never, ever, get penalised for killing a legal take down target, irrespective of the location).

Just to be clear for anyone new who may be reading all this, a target doesn't normally have to have a bounty for you to cleanly kill them in a settlement that is owned by an anarchy faction. Some have a bounty, some don't. You get no penalty (scanning them or not) because the location itself has no law. This has been long known. This is why I never thought the profile scanner had anything to do with it. Indeed, there is no scenario outside of the fleeing take down missions (and nowadays, I think, the PP2.0 agents?) where it's even possible to find a mix of anarchy and non-anarchy targets in any location. They're always the same faction (I don't include the protect missions, legality has no bearing there, just like CZs). And whenever, wherever, you find scavengers, they're always a criminal faction - you can always kill them, no penalty, no need to scan them first (in fact, scanning them after the fact rewards you nothing, you get the bounty on kill). It doesn't matter where they are. So why isn't that the case for these literal criminals we're hunting?

It is... just too confusing for the average player and I wish FD had fully fleshed this out early on.

I have on a few occasions found scavs intermingled with "power" troops who just hang around getting shot and giving me bounties. This is at power-up missions. They also seem unaware what's going on because the mission commands me to turn off the atmosphere to put out the fires, then one of these geniuses shows up and says "SOMEONE HAS BEEN TAMPERING" and turns the atmo on again. I think they are "power" troops because someone else said that - here's a photo of them in their matching suits. I find these jokers very annoying!

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I have on a few occasions found scavs intermingled with "power" troops who just hang around getting shot and giving me bounties. This is at power-up missions. They also seem unaware what's going on because the mission commands me to turn off the atmosphere to put out the fires, then one of these geniuses shows up and says "SOMEONE HAS BEEN TAMPERING" and turns the atmo on again. I think they are "power" troops because someone else said that - here's a photo of them in their matching suits. I find these jokers very annoying!

View attachment 426218

Although this is very much a "Please FDev, fix the bugs that got added in with the PP v2.0 update" issue, rather than Odyssey C&P as a whole.

They absolutely shouldn't be there.

 

[galahad2069]

They absolutely shouldn't be there.

Meanwhile, your weekly PP assignments might send you to kill X number of PP enemies in systems where the spawn rate of such enemies is infinitesimally close to zero.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Meanwhile, your weekly PP assignments might send you to kill X number of PP enemies in systems where the spawn rate of such enemies is infinitesimally close to zero.

I feel like you could write an extended folio on powerplay issues right now. I mean, I get it as a day one state of affairs, but it's not day one any more.

 

[Ydiss]

Although this is very much a "Please FDev, fix the bugs that got added in with the PP v2.0 update" issue, rather than Odyssey C&P as a whole.

They absolutely shouldn't be there.

Yeh, love their recent efforts but I don't hold out much hope of either happening. Not that you get many scav missions anyway, so I've never seen this scenario yet.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Yeh, love their recent efforts but I don't hold out much hope of either happening. Not that you get many scav missions anyway, so I've never seen this scenario yet.

The benefit of being lvl 100 with Archon Delaine is I could just shoot power related guards anyway. If they were Imperials like the ones above, that's just a public service.

 

[GoldenSilver484]

One of the NPC ships that spawned when I exited glide 4km from the fled target, it's from the system's controlling faction and the area is clearly not lawless.



Here's the target with just a basic scan, there's no bounty and I would become wanted if I'd shot them.



I used the profile analyser when they were not looking and they now have a bounty. Had they seen me complete the scan, they'd immediately become hostile.



Intimidator.



Basically, you always need to use the profile analyser first if the area isn't controlled by an anarchy faction, likely to encourage you to not use your ship, and the only time I had became wanted when doing missions with the target fled update was when I used dumbfires from my ship.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

One of the NPC ships that spawned when I exited glide 4km from the fled target, it's from the system's controlling faction and the area is clearly not lawless.

View attachment 426333

Here's the target with just a basic scan, there's no bounty and I would become wanted if I'd shot them.

View attachment 426334

I used the profile analyser when they were not looking and they now have a bounty. Had they seen me complete the scan, they'd immediately become hostile.

View attachment 426335

Intimidator.

View attachment 426336

Basically, you always need to use the profile analyser first if the area isn't controlled by an anarchy faction, likely to encourage you to not use your ship, and the only time I had became wanted when doing missions with the target fled update was when I used dumbfires from my ship.

This has been exactly my experience too.