Brainstorm: Modding in VR Legs

[VR Golgot]

Hi all,

Now that we know the likely format for EDO VR it would be good to discuss areas which could help or hinder the mod scene. This way we could at least push for the helpful aspects to be included during the run-up to launch.

I know nothing about modding, but these aspects have been raised elsewhere as possibly of interest:

• The existing SBS (side by side) stereoscopic view mode. Used for Google Cardboard etc.

• The existing anaglyph mode? IE the classic red/green '3D' view. (Although this seems redundant for VR if SBS still supported?)

We could at least push for SBS support to be maintained in EDO, for example.

Hell, allowing the current 3D / stereoscopic system for the panel would be even better right . But I suspect FDev would be resistant to having that as a native option. At least going by their past quotes on VR Legs support, and this phrasing from the latest announcement: '...we do strongly believe that VR should only be enabled for on foot gameplay when we have an experience that truly matches the same quality bar that we set for cockpits'.

Any other ideas of things that might be useful for the modding scene? Chuck them in below

Standard caveat: Obviously the end-game here is to facilitate modding that sits within the terms of service. Ideally something which FDev would be cool with, requiring low oversight on their part. I suspect any mods that get tacit approval might have to be solo only, depending on the techniques used. (IE whether the technique is open to abuse by other mods, and so blanket banned from online use etc, as is the case with the custom scripts in scripthook for GTA V).

General Outreach: Any modders out there thinking of having a crack at this?

 

[znôrt]

i'd say rendering sbs would mean frontier actually rendering stereo, so supporting vr in essence, so kind of redundant. same thing for anaglyph except just more exotic

one thing worth to try will be https://www.vorpx.com/ but no idea if that will be actually useful, i never used it. it seems to be quite a hack from the get go and i suspect frontier's '2d cinema mode' would likely be an hindrance for that more than anything.

aaaand i'm out of ideas already!

 

[znôrt]

then there is this: https://github.com/Nibre/MotherVR/releases

it works very well for alien isolation, i've no idea if the same thing can be hacked together for odyssey.

 

[VR Golgot]

i'd say rendering sbs would mean frontier actually rendering stereo, so supporting vr in essence, so kind of redundant. same thing for anaglyph except just more exotic

one thing worth to try will be https://www.vorpx.com/ but no idea if that will be actually useful, i never used it. it seems to be quite a hack from the get go and i suspect frontier's '2d cinema mode' would likely be an hindrance for that more than anything.

aaaand i'm out of ideas already!

Yeah I guess on SBS it's just worth inquiring whether it's still having support maintained in EDO, just in case it gives modders another route in if needed.

VorpX is definitely always there as an option, but I'm hoping it'll be a last resort. ED having native VR support already means it's hopefully ahead of the game on that front.

Ultimately I'd hope modders can find a way to de-active the panel view / engage the standard VR view while on foot. But having fall-backs if that's not possible would definitely be good (even if it means dealing with a weird 'panel with depth' scenario potentially )

If we can get over that hurdle, then the bonus fun of wrestling with UI QoL etc could hopefully happen too

then there is this: https://github.com/Nibre/MotherVR/releases

it works very well for alien isolation, i've no idea if the same thing can be hacked together for odyssey.

I'd guess it wouldn't transpose, given it's a different engine etc. But for sure some great stuff can be done. (It's notable though the Nibre there has taken a long old while to get where he's got with Alien: Isolation. And has now understandably got distracted by another VR-conversion project )

 

[Arioch]

Nibre has done some outstanding work with Alien: Isolation, though they did have the starting point of existing “left-over” code from the abandoned VR stuff the devs had messed around with. I’ve found the game to be a good way to compare VorpX with a native VR version - MotherVR being far superior in my view.

I think any enhancements to VREDO in-helmet flatscreen will depend on what graphics options will remain - if SBS and headtracking remain on the cards then I think we might be in with a chance of a VorpX style experience.

I’d be well happy with that; recently I’ve tried out a few FPS games via Oculus desktop view, and I keep trying to ‘glance’ around by moving my head

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I don't know if the presence of the limited native VR support for Odyssey will deter, or encourage modders? On one hand, it could be taken that modding in "proper VR" is a low hanging fruit and easily done becasue of the code that's already there, on the other hand, there might not be the same appeal to a modder as it's only half a challenge, or to more commercial entities such as VorpX, there might not be the same potential return on investment as other games have?

 

[VR Golgot]

I don't know if the presence of the limited native VR support for Odyssey will deter, or encourage modders? On one hand, it could be taken that modding in "proper VR" is a low hanging fruit and easily done becasue of the code that's already there, on the other hand, there might not be the same appeal to a modder as it's only half a challenge, or to more commercial entities such as VorpX, there might not be the same potential return on investment as other games have?

I‘d be surprised if we didn’t get a few modders from the VR community chipping in for as long as there’s no full VR support. We’re a passionate bunch on the whole, and ED has always attracted (nay needed ) a ton of 3rd party support. I reckon the skills + passion are there.

(I’ve talked to at least one guy who was up for it, but annoyingly can’t remember where/when now. Would be good to get their views )

As I understand it vorpX can always be fine-tuned by the user, but an actual bespoke job by the designer is always preferable, for sure. (Whether the ED world suddenly having need of their services would attract them, I dunno. The bigger the splash EDO makes, the more they might be tempted though).

 

[wetwire]

I suspect, that the moment we get VR hands inside a cockpit we would have full VR support for EDO.
Having FPS VR, with a fixed weapon position is not ideal. When you compare that with other FPS VR games where the weapon is attached to the wand.
For me personally, having hands inside a cockpit, where i can reach out and interact with the ship instead of using keybindings is far more appealing.

I have tested out the VRCockpit mod that makes use of the wands. flight controls are a bit sluggish, but the ability to reach out and push buttons that i had placed at various angles was immersive. My first thought after trying the mod was "Now this is pod racing." ~ Anakin

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

It still cracks me up that they say they won't do VR headlook on foot until "we have an experience that truly matches the same quality bar that we set for cockpits" as, erm, cockpit VR is only VR headlook.

 

[VR Golgot]

I suspect, that the moment we get VR hands inside a cockpit we would have full VR support for EDO.
Having FPS VR, with a fixed weapon position is not ideal. When you compare that with other FPS VR games where the weapon is attached to the wand.
For me personally, having hands inside a cockpit, where i can reach out and interact with the ship instead of using keybindings is far more appealing.

I have tested out the VRCockpit mod that makes use of the wands. flight controls are a bit sluggish, but the ability to reach out and push buttons that i had placed at various angles was immersive. My first thought after trying the mod was "Now this is pod racing." ~ Anakin

I would very much love stuff like that, but I think that's all most likely the preserve of any official version (if they even go that far).

I think the first principles for any mod would be: Can we get the Legs sections to display in VR.

And from there it'd be gnarly jobs like altering the UI (so it's not attached to headlook, or too close to the face etc). Maybe disentangling the arm models so they're not attached to headlook too, at best. But taking Nibre's Alien:Isolation mod as an example, fancier stuff like getting motion controllers working for 'handling' tools, as a new system to replace the classic inputs, has still proved beyond him to date.

(The challenges are a bit distinct from the cockpit mods you're speaking of, which mainly overlay an additional UI, and can use some comparable control inputs. IE the virtual joystick can essentially simulate the inputs of a real joystick. Whereas locomotion techniques for 'on foot' VR have become a bit more involved than WASD etc )

There is some interesting stuff happening in mod-land, like the current mod for Subnautica: Below Zero, which does include hand controls etc. But it seems to vary wildly from project to project. So it's probably best to assume any EDO mod would be rough, and likely reliant on classic controls. But still better than a 2D panel

It still cracks me up that they say they won't do VR headlook on foot until "we have an experience that truly matches the same quality bar that we set for cockpits" as, erm, cockpit VR is only VR headlook.

Yeah I think we've probably done this to death on other threads Jay, but character gameplay does come with a lot of distinct aspects which headlook alone doesn't satisfy. (Notably the market expectation of motion controllers - that type of quality bar - and then the extra forms of nausea mitigation which they open up. Given VR vehicles neither require those as a gold standard, nor benefit from them in the same way, headlook alone is fine there )

So even if you were to argue that ED's cockpit VR is just a ground-floor version, nothing fancy etc, the ground-floor entry level for character VR is still just that much higher.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

The right answer would surely be to start with headlook VR, then add hands to FPS and cockpit later - and as we've said in other threads, the creature comforts for SRV/SLF would be a good starting point for the creature comforts mitigating nausea in FPS VR.

 

[VR Golgot]

The right answer would surely be to start with headlook VR, then add hands to FPS and cockpit later - and as we've said in other threads, the creature comforts for SRV/SLF would be a good starting point for the creature comforts mitigating nausea in FPS VR.

I'll happily disagree with you more about it on another thread . But I think the facts on the ground are clear.

They're not going to support VR Legs in EDO for launch. Not with basic headlook alone etc. Not at all.

So the question for this thread is: What can modding achieve on that front in the meantime

Do you mean in terms of modding?

For sure, headlook first, then everything else is a bonus. That'd be the way

 

[wetwire]

It may be the case that FD will be using a forced injection to flat screen while on foot, insinuating that the native mode is 360, like an SRV.
But because they dont like the controls, or lack of wands make vr on foot subpar they just put a bandaid on it that forces VR users into a projected flat screen.
If that was the case eventually someone will find its a simple matter of changing a config file to display as native VR like everything else when you start the game in VR mode.

 

[wetwire]

Then again, on foot could be 3rd person only, which would put more cogs into the problem of forcing VR on foot.

 

[VR Golgot]

If that was the case eventually someone will find its a simple matter of changing a config file to display as native VR like everything else when you start the game in VR mode.

This is definitely my hope

(Hell in an ideal world we just find a config file tweak that turns the flatscreen mode off )

Then again, on foot could be 3rd person only, which would put more cogs into the problem of forcing VR on foot.

All of the talk to date has been of first person thankfully:

The Sphere of Combat

Experience intense first-person combat...

And FWIW, the old plan back in the day was first person only:

Pryrios: When you say we will walk inside ships and
stations, are you thinking in first person view or third
person view over the shoulder? If it's third personview, are you planning on doing some character
creator to make different characters for players?

David Braben: First person.