Bring more danger to Elite Dangerous?

[norlin]

Right now, there is literally ONE (ok, one and a half) case when a player can face a danger unwillingly.

Look:

• PvE interdictions can be evaded in 100% of cases, on any ship against any NPC interdictor. So any fight in that case is a player's decision.
• Stars, Black Holes, Planets - all does not bring any danger, even if you fly directly to a star or a black hole - you will just get dropped from SC with minor damage and can safely fly away.
• Hyperjumps are 100% safe (except for Hyperdictions - I'll talk about this below) - no emergency can happen during the jump or when arriving to the star. Even jumping to a close binary/multiple star system will just heat you a bit, nothing more.
• Even during any unexpected PvE combat you can, at least, fly away

Hyperdictions can add some danger, but only if you're hauling a goids parts and they are very rare if you're not flying close to the goids systems - so this is kinda expected by such player.
And it stil can be avoided if you'll drop the cargo right away, so that's counted only as a "half".

PvP interdictions in Open game is the only "unexpected" danger we have in the game. And we all know how players love it, yeah?

My suggestion is:
Add more random dangerous encounters which players can't always avoid.

Possible examples:

• Make PvE interdictions more complex to win (to get NPCs at least some chance)
• Add Hyperspace jump emergencies (FSD malfunctioning mid-jump dropping you to a random system along the jump, arriving right inside the "hot" zone of the star, etc...)
• Make stars and especially black holes to be really dangerous. Such as if you're flying into the "hot" zone and dropping from SC, you're ship will be seriously damaged, you will continue to get the heat damage in normal space and there is a high chance of FSD malfunctioning when tryint to SC/Jump out of the star.
• Planets landing should crash your ship right into the surface if you're approaching quick enough in SC, instead of just dropping into the normal space
• Add intergalactic NPCs, maybe rogue Guardian AI bots, who can hyperdict you in the vast blackness.
• (Odyssey) Possible bacterias/diseases for the pilots themselves, which start to affect you mid-flight, adding visual dizziness or damage-over-time, so you have to visit a medical center or gather some mats & synthesize a cure on board.
• ... your ideas?

 

[AngryAntz]

Let the forum crying begin

Not saying your wrong, but I am sure there will plenty of others that will

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Not down with every single danger example here but agree with your broad point. There have been many threads calling for this sort of content and FDev seemingly always go the other way over time, though.

But, I think there's still a way toward it that's consistent with the "opt in" danger that's normally touted (AX CZs, clearly labelled threat POIs, flying CGs in open, etc.). The difference is make it a regional or system by system, or allegiance-based opt in. E.g. you go somehwere that it becomes evident you should normally avoid and you have the choice to stay in the face of ramping dangers - and reward opportunities - or get out before too many nasties notice you. Tough powerplay NPC wings that can interdict, if you earn too many merits in a week. Some systems should turn into a total shipstorm occasionally, perhaps when wracked by multiple frequent wars and negative states (or just RNG to prevent player groups turning the bubble into a wasteland). No fire zones disappear, lawlessness, corruption, cutthroat behaviour pervade, and an evolution toward tougher NPCs simulating that only hardened, well-equiped pilots will fly there, and are drawn there by spoils.

Majority of the bubble is as before for the median skill and below players, but special locations/zones crop up to offer meaningful, rewarded challenges to seasoned players. And only if you're stubborn and go for it will the challenges really emerge. The clincher for me is that it feels organic.

 

[PRORABBIT67]

What about a running with scissors mini game?

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

What about a running with scissors mini game?

Sure, it's not like anyone will actually get hurt, so it's not like doing it IRL, but 1) what's the ingame logic for doing it, 2) is there a fun mechanic involved that leverages skill or nerve, 3) is there a commensurate reward for the risk to your character (NB no risk currently since even the worst scissor-related incident will result in a respawn at ship, right?).

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Supernovae and crossable fatal event horizons!

 

[norlin]

The difference is make it a regional or system by system, or allegiance-based opt in.

BTW we already have systems "security" state, which is, currently, almost meaningless. Can be used for that purpose

 

[marx]

Hyperjumps are 100% safe (except for Hyperdictions - I'll talk about this below) - no emergency can happen during the jump or when arriving to the star. Even jumping to a close binary/multiple star system will just heat you a bit, nothing more.

It can, and does, already happen that you jump out in-between close binary stars in the system, and will be heating up quickly right away. Sure, it's rare, and probably doesn't happen in the bubble, but it's not unheard of elsewhere.

My suggestion is:
Add more random dangerous encounters which players can't always avoid.

Yes, I'm sure that explorers would be absolutely thrilled if Frontier added random and unavoidable dangerous encounters where they stand to lose many hours of progress.

Sarcasm aside, make the danger not fully random, avoidable, and change that exploration data is not lost upon ship destruction (you know, like many other things that already aren't), and then sure.

That said, the bubble certainly could use more danger - more consequences to one's actions.

 

[alex_238]

Right now, there is literally ONE (ok, one and a half) case when a player can face a danger unwillingly.

Look:

• PvE interdictions can be evaded in 100% of cases, on any ship against any NPC interdictor. So any fight in that case is a player's decision.
• Stars, Black Holes, Planets - all does not bring any danger, even if you fly directly to a star or a black hole - you will just get dropped from SC with minor damage and can safely fly away.
• Hyperjumps are 100% safe (except for Hyperdictions - I'll talk about this below) - no emergency can happen during the jump or when arriving to the star. Even jumping to a close binary/multiple star system will just heat you a bit, nothing more.
• Even during any unexpected PvE combat you can, at least, fly away

Hyperdictions can add some danger, but only if you're hauling a goids parts and they are very rare if you're not flying close to the goids systems - so this is kinda expected by such player.
And it stil can be avoided if you'll drop the cargo right away, so that's counted only as a "half".

PvP interdictions in Open game is the only "unexpected" danger we have in the game. And we all know how players love it, yeah?

My suggestion is:
Add more random dangerous encounters which players can't always avoid.

Possible examples:

• Make PvE interdictions more complex to win (to get NPCs at least some chance)
• Add Hyperspace jump emergencies (FSD malfunctioning mid-jump dropping you to a random system along the jump, arriving right inside the "hot" zone of the star, etc...)
• Make stars and especially black holes to be really dangerous. Such as if you're flying into the "hot" zone and dropping from SC, you're ship will be seriously damaged, you will continue to get the heat damage in normal space and there is a high chance of FSD malfunctioning when tryint to SC/Jump out of the star.
• Planets landing should crash your ship right into the surface if you're approaching quick enough in SC, instead of just dropping into the normal space
• Add intergalactic NPCs, maybe rogue Guardian AI bots, who can hyperdict you in the vast blackness.
• (Odyssey) Possible bacterias/diseases for the pilots themselves, which start to affect you mid-flight, adding visual dizziness or damage-over-time, so you have to visit a medical center or gather some mats & synthesize a cure on board.
• ... your ideas?

Once again, someone wants everyone to play the way he wants. For adrenaline and danger, just reset your profile after each death. You don't have to change anything.
It's just that death itself in the game carries almost no negative consequences. the money is garbage.

 

[varonica]

BTW we already have systems "security" state, which is, currently, almost meaningless. Can be used for that purpose

While I agree with the sentiment, I have expressed it many times myself, danger in exploration has actually reduced over time due to the addition of modules like AFMU's and automatic functions such as hyperspace dethrottle, and there are calls for more functions to make repairing things like hull easier and power plants possible. The overall demand seem to be trending to the "make it safer" side of the equation unfortunately!

 

[ebbrell]

i agree more more danger, this has become the safest space game ever.
no module failures, no engine flame outs nothing.

i use the station to stop by ramming into it... no consequence for not respecting your ship, nothing breaks not even the landing gear.

they say its a simulation game, nope its become an arcade game.

its was more dangerous once, even the drop out zone near stations has been reduced, it was 20km out, so you have a dangerous zone , rush to get in safe area near station... like original game..
now we drop out on top of stations too near. no danger
on planets i have slammed into ground due to dropping out so near to planet base..... no time to stop due to being so near.

NPCs which chase you, appear when you are in the station, as it take no time to get in there before they spawn, again when it was 20km out they had a chance to spawn before you going in or near station.

 

[varonica]

It can, and does, already happen that you jump out in-between close binary stars in the system, and will be heating up quickly right away. Sure, it's rare, and probably doesn't happen in the bubble, but it's not unheard of elsewhere.

This used to be much more common, but the overwhelming majority of such incidences were negated by changes to the jump mechanic that puts you outside the orbit of close binary pairs, it happens only extremely rarely now. There were occasions before they nerfed it where I would jump in and be surrounded by smoke and warnings and be up in the 130's from the moment I jumped in, I am sure many long time explorers will remember those occaisions, if not fondly at least clearly. The old Brown Alert, that was always fun!

 

[norlin]

Sure, it's rare, and probably doesn't happen in the bubble, but it's not unheard of elsewhere.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - such cases can only heat you a bit and nothing more. Even if you're distracted, maximum you'll be safely dropped to a normal spce with 1-2% of hull damage and no consequences

 

[Zak Gordon]

It's on my list currently as i play (for the first time) and write up impressions etc.

Elite Dangerous is historically speaking the least dangerous of all the Elite games. Maybe that is part of the cost of it being an MMO (so you have vested interest in keeping players playing etc)?

Anyway what is the history of the interdiction game in ED? Was it harder in the past? Was there an advantage to a small agile attacker when taking on a larger slower ship etc? I can't say if there is much difference in the ships i've flown and my ability to avoid the interdiction, but surely ship type and performance SHOULD have a bearing on how easy it is to avoid the interdiction?

Now the second part of that is just how rare interdiction's are. Is this at all related to the system security level? As i mostly, probably 95% of the time never get one, even if doing a mission that says i have a chance of ships coming after me.

But yeah. ED is NOT actually a dangerous game to play in single player at all. Was it always like this?

 

[Sylow]

I do not agree on making exploration more dangerous. To explain that: i don't really explore a lot. Exploration is why i probably never make tripple-elite. But i do see how the playstyle works and how it can be enjoyable for some people. Random risks and explosions just does not add anything to that way of playing. And it might be just me, but i do belive that spitting in somebody elses food is not the way to make my own food more enjoyable.

Where i do agree is that a lot of things in the bubble are too easy. I for quite a while advocate for some changes to be made, which would help that. But as long as not only FD, but seemingly also a perhaps small but at the deciding time very vocal group of players believe that the current balance is perfectly fine, nothing will change. I mean, i personally have my doubts that being able to engineer a ship to a state, where you can AFK-farm bounty vouchers in a HAZ Res zone is really a good thing to have. But some people seem to be convinced that player ships, which have some tons of gold on board and sit at a pirate hotspot, should be fine to automatically fend off those pirates and win, without even needing any player input. For hours.

There might also be other aspects of the game which could be adjusted to make it more thrilling again. But really only after ships have actually become vulnerable again. As long as engineering is the way it is, any other change to make the game more dangerous is just pointless.

But yeah. ED is NOT actually a dangerous game to play in single player at all. Was it always like this?

For anybody knowing what he was doing, the danger always was controllable. But ships were way more vulnerable in pre-engineering times, which meant that if you made a mistake, you also had the risk of the rebuy screen. While a fully engineered ship now, when you make the same mistake, just looses a ring of its shields at max and keeps going on.

And on the question of interdiction: small ships still, in theory, have an advantage there. Their better agility does matter in that minigame. But the interdiction also was tuned up and down a few times in the games history. And in the end, it's hard to say if we had any time where things actually were fine. Before it was made as easy as it is now, it quite often was predictable on who would win, merely based on which two ships were involved. A ships agility mattered more than a players skill. Which also was not really satisfying. So in a way, i fear that what we got now is actually the best they managed to ever get the interdiction game to.

My complaints there might actually rather be: i can fly around for days and nobody ever interdicts me. Ever. Both pirates and the police should do more interdicting and scanning... although, as mentioned above, as long as my ship can absorb incoming fire from several targets for long enough that i can still order a pizza, wait for the delivery, eat it, take a nap and then return to fend of the attacker, making NPCs more aggressive won't really do much good.

 

[CMDR Yates]

Yes, I'm sure that explorers would be absolutely thrilled if Frontier added random and unavoidable dangerous encounters where they stand to lose many hours of progress.

Sarcasm aside, make the danger not fully random, avoidable, and change that exploration data is not lost upon ship destruction (you know, like many other things that already aren't), and then sure.
.

As an explorer, yes, I would be over the moon with this. Genuinely.

I would qualify it by saying I think the danger should be challenging to avoid, rewarding vigilance and caution, rather than completely random and inescapable. There should be some reward (exploration/bio data, codex hits, rare and highly valuable cargo...) for winning the encounter, and the danger level should be much less than a Thargoid interceptior.

But yes, a little bit of fear and uncertainty in the black would REALLY help exploration pop, imo.

I love exploring, but at times it feels like exploring a static, predictable database of stuff that happens to have a pretty and slow-to-navigate UI. Some "lions and tigers and bears" would help up the spice level and fuzz the predictability of the galaxy a bit with a little adrenaline.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But yeah. ED is NOT actually a dangerous game to play in single player at all. Was it always like this?

Essentially yes - back when I started out in 1.1 I got interdicted by various NPCs and was always able to evade them rather than fight in my Freewinder. And even the interdictions were much less than 1/system. The only time I died early on was when interdicted by a novice Cobra III player - and even then, it wasn't that uneven a fight...

Exploration has specifically been made rather safer since then in that NPC pirates
- generally won't spawn to attack explorers except in populated systems (unless carrying non-limpet cargo)
- even if an exploring player is interdicted by a non-specific NPC pirate, which is extremely rare, they can just sit still, be scanned, and wait for them to leave (again, unless cargo)
...but it's not as if the explorers couldn't have evaded the interdictions from the start, it's just that they might have been rather out of practice after six months out.

Back pre-2.1 NPC pirates would attack explorers even if they weren't carrying cargo which made the return a bit more interesting and led to the establishment of various escort groups, which basically gradually died off when the NPCs stopped and players figured out that there really wasn't anything to worry about any more.

 

[Riverside]

I've played a lot & my view of how dangerous the basic game is is skewed by my having seen most things many times so I generally have a good idea how to mitigate that risk.

I feel the game is about the risk of failure (to achieve a goal) than to see the rebuy screen. Inevitably that means one can keep trying until they succeed. I think this is a better gameplay loop - to lose time with failure rather than losing progress with a rebuy (cargo, missions, explo & bio data).

I miss the really short mission timers that arrived with 1.4. They instilled a genuine sense of urgency that encouraged me to push myself further and to rake risks, and that inevitably meant I was making mistakes & more likely to see the rebuy screen too.

Just making the game harder to survive for everyone isn't the answer, but it could be harder to be successful.

 

[zeta]

Not down with every single danger example here but agree with your broad point. There have been many threads calling for this sort of content and FDev seemingly always go the other way over time, though.

But, I think there's still a way toward it that's consistent with the "opt in" danger that's normally touted (AX CZs, clearly labelled threat POIs, flying CGs in open, etc.). The difference is make it a regional or system by system, or allegiance-based opt in. E.g. you go somehwere that it becomes evident you should normally avoid and you have the choice to stay in the face of ramping dangers - and reward opportunities - or get out before too many nasties notice you. Tough powerplay NPC wings that can interdict, if you earn too many merits in a week. Some systems should turn into a total shipstorm occasionally, perhaps when wracked by multiple frequent wars and negative states (or just RNG to prevent player groups turning the bubble into a wasteland). No fire zones disappear, lawlessness, corruption, cutthroat behaviour pervade, and an evolution toward tougher NPCs simulating that only hardened, well-equiped pilots will fly there, and are drawn there by spoils.

Majority of the bubble is as before for the median skill and below players, but special locations/zones crop up to offer meaningful, rewarded challenges to seasoned players. And only if you're stubborn and go for it will the challenges really emerge. The clincher for me is that it feels organic.

A while back I asked (and many others for different scenarios) for ONE system, just one where the AI would not be a push over, to pose a little challenge, so that one does not have to jump 300+ Ly away from the bubble to fight goids. The only challenge I get in the bubble (aside from pvp) is a viper vs wing pirate assassination mission. Alternatively, the game could be renamed Elite Carebears, like a wise one once said.

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

Right now, there is literally ONE (ok, one and a half) case when a player can face a danger unwillingly.

Look:

• PvE interdictions can be evaded in 100% of cases, on any ship against any NPC interdictor. So any fight in that case is a player's decision.
• Stars, Black Holes, Planets - all does not bring any danger, even if you fly directly to a star or a black hole - you will just get dropped from SC with minor damage and can safely fly away.
• Hyperjumps are 100% safe (except for Hyperdictions - I'll talk about this below) - no emergency can happen during the jump or when arriving to the star. Even jumping to a close binary/multiple star system will just heat you a bit, nothing more.
• Even during any unexpected PvE combat you can, at least, fly away

Hyperdictions can add some danger, but only if you're hauling a goids parts and they are very rare if you're not flying close to the goids systems - so this is kinda expected by such player.
And it stil can be avoided if you'll drop the cargo right away, so that's counted only as a "half".

PvP interdictions in Open game is the only "unexpected" danger we have in the game. And we all know how players love it, yeah?

My suggestion is:
Add more random dangerous encounters which players can't always avoid.

Possible examples:

• Make PvE interdictions more complex to win (to get NPCs at least some chance)
• Add Hyperspace jump emergencies (FSD malfunctioning mid-jump dropping you to a random system along the jump, arriving right inside the "hot" zone of the star, etc...)
• Make stars and especially black holes to be really dangerous. Such as if you're flying into the "hot" zone and dropping from SC, you're ship will be seriously damaged, you will continue to get the heat damage in normal space and there is a high chance of FSD malfunctioning when tryint to SC/Jump out of the star.
• Planets landing should crash your ship right into the surface if you're approaching quick enough in SC, instead of just dropping into the normal space
• Add intergalactic NPCs, maybe rogue Guardian AI bots, who can hyperdict you in the vast blackness.
• (Odyssey) Possible bacterias/diseases for the pilots themselves, which start to affect you mid-flight, adding visual dizziness or damage-over-time, so you have to visit a medical center or gather some mats & synthesize a cure on board.
• ... your ideas?

These are good (especially the guardian one) but for stars and black holes. It would be immersion issue. The rescue rangers aint pulling your escape pod from out a black hole or star. Same for planets it would have to be perma death (you would be atomized if you crashed into planets at 5C.