Buff the Federal Dropship

DemiserofD

D
The Federal Dropship is the ugly stepchild of the Federal family. It's basically a Gunship that's lost the two small hardpoints, the fighter bay, and 25% hull and shields in exchange for...what, exactly?

10% more speed. That's literally it.

I think this is the most neglected ship in the game, and that's saying something considering the Asp Scout exists.

I have a few ideas for how this ship could be buffed.

Option 1: Make it into the medium Federal Hauler.

The Corvette is a perfectly decent mining ship, and is actually the best passenger transport in the game. The Dropship could take this even further.

Just give it an additional C6 Optional, boosting its maximum cargo capacity to 230. Also, convert its unrestricted C4 slot into a C5, bringing its cargo capacity up to 246. This is well above the Gunship, but still 4 cargo shy of the Clipper, but with the added benefit of the 2x C4 Military optionals, making it a slower but more durable hull tank trade ship, in keeping with the Federal doctrine.

It would remain significantly below the T7 and Python in cargo space as well, but would be cheaper than either of them. Overall, it would be a very viable ship for mining or cargo runs into dangerous territory.

Option 2: Buff its utility and durability.

Rather than making it a more purpose-built trader, make it into a more general utilitarian ship, trading outright firepower for durability and options.

The Dropship currently has 4 Utility Slots which are all on the bottom side, leaving it quite vulnerable to missile attacks on its top and back sides, which can lead to thrusters quickly being disabled and the ship being destroyed. This is a critical flaw for a ship which is nominally a hull tank.

Firstly, add Utility slots to the topside of the ship. There is plenty of space for them to be placed here; the simplest way would be to put one directly above the cockpit, where the Gunship has its two small hardpoints, and a second on the back/top of the ship. If additional utility slots are wanted, they could easily be placed in the same place as the Gunship's top-oriented utility slots. These would not be as useful, however, since they can only protect one side of the ship, and so should be a second choice over the more optimal center-line placements.

1640892532971.png

The yellows indicate the location of the proposed new utility slots.



This alone would make a big difference in the ship's utility; having 8x utility slots would make this a unique ship among mediums, and give it tremendous options for carrying both Point Defense AND Shield Boosters, not to mention boosting its firepower with well-timed heat sink usage. And because of its relatively low base shields, it wouldn't become impossibly durable, at least not with a shield-tank focus.

In addition to this, compliment the ship's increased shield durability by buffing its Armor Hardness. The current front-runner is the T10 with 75 hardness, but I see no reason why the Dropship, purpose-built to punch through planetary defenses and safely drop its payload, couldn't be updated to have hardness even better than that, especially given the current weakness of hull tanks in general. Buff its armor hardness to 80, making this ship a tough nut to crack for smaller ships, and quite durable even against larger ones.

This would give you a ship that's got less firepower than the Gunship, loses its fighter bay, but gains a significant amount of durability and a huge amount of options via utility slots and hardness for various builds.

One way or another, the dropship desperately needs some help. Either or neither of these might be the right path, but it clearly needs something.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Arguably the whole Fed X ship lineup needs love- I mean the FAS is overshadowed by the Chief and now (like a kick to the testicles) the Orca. FD seem to have forgotten in game about ground assault they have a Dropship- yes its big, but they should have built something around that- perhaps resistance to ground fire (as you suggest) but what about extra seats- like four for PMC? The Gunship is the least borked but needs more seats also.

But Dropship specific, hull needs to be 80 hardness at a minimum (perhaps as high as 85) since its mostly a hybrid hulltank, 4 seats, and perhaps lower its heat output.
 

ebbrell

ebbrell
Dropship should be the ship which is used to DROP you into combat zones, not the vulture.
The clue is in the name.

We should see aliens drop interiors where are all sit while be transferred travelling to the location
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
DS and GS are ok in ground assault role, of course bad lats and low speed make them vulnurable to turrets, but underslung hardpoints convergence makes dumbfire missiles build hillarious, all bottom utilities have purpose in shooting down upcoming missiels from the ground so it makes sense too, of course more manouvrable ships work over planetary surface better, especially smaller ones, but DS is fine as it is, most hulltanks shortcoming come from game mechanic favouring shield stacking way over hull tanking and illogical armour value for fdl and fed ships line, and there is pve god tier krait with permaboost on 2 eng pips, but all those are not directly related to FDS. Anyway, for more combat oriented BGS tasks, especially when we want fixed weapons, dropship have it's place, it's just not how most people play the game. Also dropship is harder to hit than python, this actully matter if we go after those sweet sharable 5inf wing assasiantion missions without commiting to big ship or single task combat mediums
 

DemiserofD

D
Rubbernuke said:
Arguably the whole Fed X ship lineup needs love- I mean the FAS is overshadowed by the Chief and now (like a kick to the testicles) the Orca. FD seem to have forgotten in game about ground assault they have a Dropship- yes its big, but they should have built something around that- perhaps resistance to ground fire (as you suggest) but what about extra seats- like four for PMC? The Gunship is the least borked but needs more seats also.

But Dropship specific, hull needs to be 80 hardness at a minimum (perhaps as high as 85) since its mostly a hybrid hulltank, 4 seats, and perhaps lower its heat output.
Click to expand...

I didn't really pay much attention until you pointed it out, but you're right, the FAS is also pretty obsolete now, isn't it? Not really sure what I'd do about that. Maybe buff the hardness there, too? I agree that you could easily go up to 85 or even higher. Every 5 hardness basically just gives you an extra 6% durability, so it's hardly overpowered.

I wouldn't see too much use for 4x crew seats, tbh, since it can't carry a fighter bay, but it might be worth it just for fitting the name a bit better.


ebbrell said:
Dropship should be the ship which is used to DROP you into combat zones, not the vulture.
The clue is in the name.

We should see aliens drop interiors where are all sit while be transferred travelling to the location
Click to expand...

The trouble is, the Dropship is just way too big for that role. It's the same size as a WW2 navy troopship capable of carrying 2100 soldiers. It's what you'd use to deploy an entire invasion.

If there were some way to make it fit despite being massive I'd be down for it, but I can't think of a good way, so absent that, I'd rather it at least have SOME role.


cmdr Ramius007 said:
DS and GS are ok in ground assault role, of course bad lats and low speed make them vulnurable to turrets, but underslung hardpoints convergence makes dumbfire missiles build hillarious, all bottom utilities have purpose in shooting down upcoming missiels from the ground so it makes sense too, of course more manouvrable ships work over planetary surface better, especially smaller ones, but DS is fine as it is, most hulltanks shortcoming come from game mechanic favouring shield stacking way over hull tanking and illogical armour value for fdl and fed ships line, and there is pve god tier krait with permaboost on 2 eng pips, but all those are not directly related to FDS. Anyway, for more combat oriented BGS tasks, especially when we want fixed weapons, dropship have it's place, it's just not how most people play the game. Also dropship is harder to hit than python, this actully matter if we go after those sweet sharable 5inf wing assasiantion missions without commiting to big ship or single task combat mediums
Click to expand...

They may be okay, but the trouble is more in comparison. There's no real reason to use a FDS instead of a similar better ship for exactly the same thing. Even its biggest perk, having everything facing downwards, isn't particularly helpful, since you at most need two point defense at once.

I'd just like to see it get a role it does best, even if only in a relatively limited way.
 
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LeoBartlet

LeoBartlet
ebbrell said:
Dropship should be the ship which is used to DROP you into combat zones, not the vulture.
The clue is in the name.

We should see aliens drop interiors where are all sit while be transferred travelling to the location
Click to expand...

If we start taking the names of ships literally then this all falls apart :D
 

Capricos

C
You can make this argument about a lot of ships in the game. The Fer-de-Lance and the Mamba? The T-9 and T10? Basically, the entire Alliance line-up. There's not *that much difference between any of them, other than the Crusader having a fighter bay. I, personally, prefer the Challenger. I have over half the 22 ships parked on my Fleet Carrier simply because I can. You can make *anything work. Some things just work better than others. Some things are preferred over others.
I turned my Fed Gunship into a missileboat. Large and smalls are thermals, and the four mediums are missiles of various sorts. The issue is... missiles don't really do ALL that much damage to a ship. Even when you hit it with four of them. You would think four seeker missiles would take out a shieldless Eagle. WRONG.
What is the point of the Imperial Courtier? It's a *very fun ship to fly, but exactly how much damage are you doing it with it in a combat zone? How many ships are going to blow up?
To me, the variety of equipment and engineering allows a person to find reasons or purposes for these ships.
Do I agree in principal with what you're saying in that there are several ships that aren't used because there are much better ones? Yes.
Personally, I'd like to see an Alliance ship to compete with the Corvette. I'd like to see a Fed ship halfway between a gunship and the corvette. If the gunship is a destroyer, and the vette a battleship... I'd like to see a cruiser level.
Oh, and the best mining ship in the game is the Beluga. It's not even a question or debate in my mind.
 

DemiserofD

D
Capricos said:
You can make this argument about a lot of ships in the game. The Fer-de-Lance and the Mamba? The T-9 and T10? Basically, the entire Alliance line-up. There's not *that much difference between any of them, other than the Crusader having a fighter bay. I, personally, prefer the Challenger. I have over half the 22 ships parked on my Fleet Carrier simply because I can. You can make *anything work. Some things just work better than others. Some things are preferred over others.
I turned my Fed Gunship into a missileboat. Large and smalls are thermals, and the four mediums are missiles of various sorts. The issue is... missiles don't really do ALL that much damage to a ship. Even when you hit it with four of them. You would think four seeker missiles would take out a shieldless Eagle. WRONG.
What is the point of the Imperial Courtier? It's a *very fun ship to fly, but exactly how much damage are you doing it with it in a combat zone? How many ships are going to blow up?
To me, the variety of equipment and engineering allows a person to find reasons or purposes for these ships.
Do I agree in principal with what you're saying in that there are several ships that aren't used because there are much better ones? Yes.
Personally, I'd like to see an Alliance ship to compete with the Corvette. I'd like to see a Fed ship halfway between a gunship and the corvette. If the gunship is a destroyer, and the vette a battleship... I'd like to see a cruiser level.
Oh, and the best mining ship in the game is the Beluga. It's not even a question or debate in my mind.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'd say that MOST ships have something they excel at in particular. You diss the T10, for example, but technically it does have the best DPS in the game, and not only that, its C8 and C7 slots make it an awesome hybrid hull tank. I often use it instead of my Corvette and achieve similar results.

There are just a few ships that really lag behind, having no real niche they fill. The Keelback, the Asp Scout, the Dropship, and the Beluga are the four most egregious examples. They're the ones that really need help, not just for players to see their potential, since practically, they have no potential. They're just worse reskins of other, better ships.
 

Capricos

C
DemiserofD said:
Honestly, I'd say that MOST ships have something they excel at in particular. You diss the T10, for example, but technically it does have the best DPS in the game, and not only that, its C8 and C7 slots make it an awesome hybrid hull tank. I often use it instead of my Corvette and achieve similar results.

There are just a few ships that really lag behind, having no real niche they fill. The Keelback, the Asp Scout, the Dropship, and the Beluga are the four most egregious examples. They're the ones that really need help, not just for players to see their potential, since practically, they have no potential. They're just worse reskins of other, better ships.
Click to expand...
I'm not dissing the T-10 in my statement. I'm providing another example of what the guy is saying. Why buy a T-9 when there is the T-10? The T-10 is supposed to be a trade ship, but the Imperial Cutter is the best trade ship.
You're getting into analytics with the T-10 and overall DPS. To me, as far as combat goes, the T-10 is WAY too slow, turns too slow, and has too much drag when turning. Also, unless you're using turrets, about half the hardpoints are in inconvenient spots.
And, as I said, there is not even a debate or a question in my mind that the Beluga Liner is the best mining ship in the game. Not even a question. I've tried mining in many ships. The Beluga is practically perfect for mining. Side note... I use my T-10 as a large passenger ship.
As far as combat... in a high intensity combat zone, I average between 20-25 kills per run. Depends on the ship's and weapons I'm using. The four main ships I use are the Corvette, Anaconda ( I like the double large's up top), the Challenger and the Clipper. I'll tell you what... guardian shield boosters made the Imperial Clipper an absolute death machine. Because was able to drop it's shields from class 7 to class 6 and use a class 7 shield cell bank.
So, while we don't agree on all the ships that don't have any practical use and/or are reskins of other ships... we *do agree that it's a situation with too many ships that are available.
 

DemiserofD

D
Capricos said:
I'm not dissing the T-10 in my statement. I'm providing another example of what the guy is saying. Why buy a T-9 when there is the T-10? The T-10 is supposed to be a trade ship, but the Imperial Cutter is the best trade ship.
You're getting into analytics with the T-10 and overall DPS. To me, as far as combat goes, the T-10 is WAY too slow, turns too slow, and has too much drag when turning. Also, unless you're using turrets, about half the hardpoints are in inconvenient spots.
And, as I said, there is not even a debate or a question in my mind that the Beluga Liner is the best mining ship in the game. Not even a question. I've tried mining in many ships. The Beluga is practically perfect for mining. Side note... I use my T-10 as a large passenger ship.
As far as combat... in a high intensity combat zone, I average between 20-25 kills per run. Depends on the ship's and weapons I'm using. The four main ships I use are the Corvette, Anaconda ( I like the double large's up top), the Challenger and the Clipper. I'll tell you what... guardian shield boosters made the Imperial Clipper an absolute death machine. Because was able to drop it's shields from class 7 to class 6 and use a class 7 shield cell bank.
So, while we don't agree on all the ships that don't have any practical use and/or are reskins of other ships... we *do agree that it's a situation with too many ships that are available.
Click to expand...
The clipper you use is actually a great example of a niche ship. No, it doesn't have the raw DPS of its competition, but it's exceedingly fast and maneuverable for its size, and with its C7 optional, has extremely good defenses overall. Could it still use a buff in some way? Sure. But even as-is, it's already vying for best in several categories. And I think all ships should have that; the ability to compete for best in something, no matter how small a niche it is.

The Dropship has no such claim. There is nothing the dropship does that can't be done better by some other ship, and therefore there's no reason to use it.

(The t10 was never described as a trade ship, btw. It was technically meant to be an Anti-Xeno ship. It's terrible at that, but in standard human combat, it's quite good.)

Anyways, all I'm saying is that what matters is the statistics. The t10 may not suit someone's combat style, and that's fine. What WOULDN'T be fine is if it were slower and less agile than other combat ships, AND had worse DPS. At that point, it would have nothing going for it at all, and why bother using a useless ship?
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
If we bring really thtreatening for engineered ship npc's to the game, and clipper will be best hauler in game, i saw people trying to undermine in courier in open when they faced 2 enemy fdl's in SC, small ships get some life in odyssey, as even 1-2 small missile racks are game breakers in ground CZ and make some harder missiosn trivial, espeically in team, they all evade ground fire preety well too, OTOG dropship, like all federal ships is "go fixed or go home" type of ship, armed as usual pve ships they will be subpar to practically all alternatives
 

Gordon Freeman IV

G
DemiserofD said:
The Federal Dropship is the ugly stepchild of the Federal family. It's basically a Gunship that's lost the two small hardpoints, the fighter bay, and 25% hull and shields in exchange for...what, exactly?

10% more speed. That's literally it.

I think this is the most neglected ship in the game, and that's saying something considering the Asp Scout exists.

I have a few ideas for how this ship could be buffed.

Option 1: Make it into the medium Federal Hauler.

The Corvette is a perfectly decent mining ship, and is actually the best passenger transport in the game. The Dropship could take this even further.

Just give it an additional C6 Optional, boosting its maximum cargo capacity to 230. Also, convert its unrestricted C4 slot into a C5, bringing its cargo capacity up to 246. This is well above the Gunship, but still 4 cargo shy of the Clipper, but with the added benefit of the 2x C4 Military optionals, making it a slower but more durable hull tank trade ship, in keeping with the Federal doctrine.

It would remain significantly below the T7 and Python in cargo space as well, but would be cheaper than either of them. Overall, it would be a very viable ship for mining or cargo runs into dangerous territory.

Option 2: Buff its utility and durability.

Rather than making it a more purpose-built trader, make it into a more general utilitarian ship, trading outright firepower for durability and options.

The Dropship currently has 4 Utility Slots which are all on the bottom side, leaving it quite vulnerable to missile attacks on its top and back sides, which can lead to thrusters quickly being disabled and the ship being destroyed. This is a critical flaw for a ship which is nominally a hull tank.

Firstly, add Utility slots to the topside of the ship. There is plenty of space for them to be placed here; the simplest way would be to put one directly above the cockpit, where the Gunship has its two small hardpoints, and a second on the back/top of the ship. If additional utility slots are wanted, they could easily be placed in the same place as the Gunship's top-oriented utility slots. These would not be as useful, however, since they can only protect one side of the ship, and so should be a second choice over the more optimal center-line placements.

View attachment 283643
The yellows indicate the location of the proposed new utility slots.



This alone would make a big difference in the ship's utility; having 8x utility slots would make this a unique ship among mediums, and give it tremendous options for carrying both Point Defense AND Shield Boosters, not to mention boosting its firepower with well-timed heat sink usage. And because of its relatively low base shields, it wouldn't become impossibly durable, at least not with a shield-tank focus.

In addition to this, compliment the ship's increased shield durability by buffing its Armor Hardness. The current front-runner is the T10 with 75 hardness, but I see no reason why the Dropship, purpose-built to punch through planetary defenses and safely drop its payload, couldn't be updated to have hardness even better than that, especially given the current weakness of hull tanks in general. Buff its armor hardness to 80, making this ship a tough nut to crack for smaller ships, and quite durable even against larger ones.

This would give you a ship that's got less firepower than the Gunship, loses its fighter bay, but gains a significant amount of durability and a huge amount of options via utility slots and hardness for various builds.

One way or another, the dropship desperately needs some help. Either or neither of these might be the right path, but it clearly needs something.
Click to expand...
How about make it lose 180T so it is actually useful for jumping more than 15ly. It gets out jumped by the damn corvette which is really a low bar.
 

denispage

denispage
Rubbernuke said:
Arguably the whole Fed X ship lineup needs love- I mean the FAS is overshadowed by the Chief and now (like a kick to the testicles) the Orca. FD seem to have forgotten in game about ground assault they have a Dropship- yes its big, but they should have built something around that- perhaps resistance to ground fire (as you suggest) but what about extra seats- like four for PMC? The Gunship is the least borked but needs more seats also.

But Dropship specific, hull needs to be 80 hardness at a minimum (perhaps as high as 85) since its mostly a hybrid hulltank, 4 seats, and perhaps lower its heat output.
Click to expand...
Let's be honest, only who plays the game knows that.
You're asking too much for fdev.
😁
 

DemiserofD

D
jonbergacs said:
How do u oversize on coriolis i cant figure it out. And yes a C6 fsd wouold be great.
Click to expand...

You go to a ship with the optional you're looking for, and swap between it and the one your desired ship has, while watching the address bar. Note what changes, then swap to the right ship and manually edit it.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
DemiserofD said:
What does it do better than something else?
Click to expand...

Sorry, you're going to have to refine your question unless you think that every ship must outperform every other ship in some area, which would be impossible. But to literally answer your question, it has more firepower than a lot of ships, it has more internals than a lot of ships, it has a high hull compared to many ships, etc. All at a relatively cheap price.

I mean, you said "Something else" so compared to a Sidewinder it does almost everything better :p

It falls into the same category as the Cobra Mk4 and Python. A high number of internal slots relative to its size, which makes it a very versatile multirole ship.

Mine is configured with 8 SRV bays and 5 missile launchers, making it ideal for planetary shenanigans. I've also used one for Exploration, Mining, and Piracy.
 

DemiserofD

D
Agony_Aunt said:
Sorry, you're going to have to refine your question unless you think that every ship must outperform every other ship in some area, which would be impossible. But to literally answer your question, it has more firepower than a lot of ships, it has more internals than a lot of ships, it has a high hull compared to many ships, etc. All at a relatively cheap price.

I mean, you said "Something else" so compared to a Sidewinder it does almost everything better :p

It falls into the same category as the Cobra Mk4 and Python. A high number of internal slots relative to its size, which makes it a very versatile multirole ship.

Mine is configured with 8 SRV bays and 5 missile launchers, making it ideal for planetary shenanigans. I've also used one for Exploration, Mining, and Piracy.
Click to expand...
I absolutely do mean that every ship should be the best at something. If it isn't the best at something-if it can be completely replaced by some other ship-then it either needs to be improved, or it might as well be removed entirely, replaced by an ARX purchase.

Of course, many ships currently don't meet this standard, but that doesn't mean that's a good thing.

What you've described is basically an inferior python. What possible reason would people have to use an inferior python, especially when, in the time it would have taken them to get the required rank to even use it in the first place, they could have gotten the credits to use the python instead?
 
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