Buffing shock cannons!

[Frodo swagginsX]

Currently in game there are a few special unlock weapons. This thread is to go into Shock cannons.

Currently, a single large shock cannons deals 4663.6 damage in its total ammo. compare this to a fixed class 3 multicannon (a similar weapon in design) which deals 8580 damage per total ammo. you can clearly see how underpowered shock cannons are. this is further exaggerated when you take into account that you can engineer the multis for either overcharged, which buffs the total damage output by 70%, or high capacity which doubles it. I propose, due to shock cannons being a special unlock requirement and having significant drawbacks like substantial heat generation and inaccuracy in rapid fire, that shock cannons have their magazines and ammo reserve total doubled. this will then make them slightly more powerful than traditional multis. I then also suggest the option to make them able to be engineered further. this will then bring them more in line with multicannons but offer slightly higher damage potential due to them being a special unlock requirement.

I feel this change is necessary as currently the only ranged projectile weapons are, and have been for years, cannons and multicannons. I'm neglecting frags in this as they are a CQB weapon, with the exception of pacifiers. I believe this change will bring more life into all combat loadouts as currently, as shock cannons are not viable in comparison to engineerable weapons and thus only used to try for the first time, ultimately to be sold back to the station and never used again. The game needs more variety in builds and i think this is a good first start. These weapons also see little to no play due to them being borderline useless when compared to standard purchasable weapons.

 

[Vardaugas]

I would go with simply changing their damage from kinetic to absolute. Then all drawbacks are balanced.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Shock Cannons are way too cool for them to suck so badly.

 

[Northpin]

At the rate they run out of ammo while frying your own ship, they could be called giggly cannons

 

[Sbirch123]

I agree they need to be buffed as well as other powerplay weapons (yes I'm looking at you APAs)

 

[Stabby_Dave]

Never figured out why their heat generation flies in the face of every other kinetic weapon out there. Very low ammo, very high synth cost and they're not even autofire.

Currently, the only use I can find for them is assassination missions. Get in, blast the target, spamming heatsinks and run.

 

[BradHann]

Another option would be to pile on the experimental effects. It already has auto-loader, so why not phasing and scramble and others whose names currently escape me. Make it a meme weapon. Youtubers would love it.

Actually I'd prefer just to make it do absolute damage.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

2x (at least) ammo for a start, then we may discuss engineering, rather limited, they are already ok damage wise

 

[RBHM Spoons]

At least make em engineered.
A mod that reduces spread if you decide to spam them for example.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'll occasionally take out an FdL with 4 fixed medium shock cannons and it's great fun while it lasts. More ammo would make these something I'd use more often as opposed to a build I just pull out when I want to do something different for 10 minutes.

Personally I don't even think these even need the CG double engineering treatment (or any engineering at all really). Just the ability to use them a bit longer.

 

[Revahar]

shock cannons are so cool to use but as you say they don't have enough ammo. For them to be really usable it would really be necessary to add ammunition. It's a minimum.

 

[Chaparral]

This topic has been addressed before, with detailed graphical comparisons of all of the different weapon options. It is the total damage potential of the weapon that makes it impractical.

So many balancing solutions have been suggested that would work. In no particular order...

1) Change damage type to absolute.
2) Increase total ammo pool.
3) Remove the manufactured material synthesis requirement.
4) Allow adding corrosive effect.
5) Allow for scaling damage for consecutive hits.
6) etc.

The sound and look of these guns are awesome, they do deserve some balancing love.

 

[Insanerobert]

Allowing these weapons just to be engineered like any other Cannon will increase the Shock Cannon effectiveness, especially since they're Tech Brocker unlockables and not accessible to anyone. Even engineering standard cannons will make them more useful than Shock Cannons (and the Cannons are still less effective than any other Kinetic weapon out there).

Although, if I really think ammo-wise, they should also receive a buff on this regard. The cannon class weapons are really neglected in this game and I feel bad, since I like their gameplay style.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Allowing these weapons just to be engineered like any other Cannon will increase the Shock Cannon effectiveness, especially since they're Tech Brocker unlockables and not accessible to anyone. Even engineering standard cannons will make them more useful than Shock Cannons (and the Cannons are still less effective than any other Kinetic weapon out there).

Although, if I really think ammo-wise, they should also receive a buff on this regard. The cannon class weapons are really neglected in this game and I feel bad, since I like their gameplay style.

Especially after High Yeld get nerfed into oblivion, dispersal can be applied to plasmas too, cannons otoh lack target lock breaker, forceshell can be annoying, but same can be said about TLB, but even after this shock cannons are stil worse weapons than cannons, or at least have way less application and small # of builds when they can be viable, even as only assasination weapon

 

[DemiserofD]

Currently in game there are a few special unlock weapons. This thread is to go into Shock cannons.

Currently, a single large shock cannons deals 4663.6 damage in its total ammo. compare this to a fixed class 3 multicannon (a similar weapon in design) which deals 8580 damage per total ammo. you can clearly see how underpowered shock cannons are. this is further exaggerated when you take into account that you can engineer the multis for either overcharged, which buffs the total damage output by 70%, or high capacity which doubles it. I propose, due to shock cannons being a special unlock requirement and having significant drawbacks like substantial heat generation and inaccuracy in rapid fire, that shock cannons have their magazines and ammo reserve total doubled. this will then make them slightly more powerful than traditional multis. I then also suggest the option to make them able to be engineered further. this will then bring them more in line with multicannons but offer slightly higher damage potential due to them being a special unlock requirement.

I feel this change is necessary as currently the only ranged projectile weapons are, and have been for years, cannons and multicannons. I'm neglecting frags in this as they are a CQB weapon, with the exception of pacifiers. I believe this change will bring more life into all combat loadouts as currently, as shock cannons are not viable in comparison to engineerable weapons and thus only used to try for the first time, ultimately to be sold back to the station and never used again. The game needs more variety in builds and i think this is a good first start. These weapons also see little to no play due to them being borderline useless when compared to standard purchasable weapons.

Honestly, shock cannons would be pretty OP if you allowed them to be engineered. They already have significantly more raw DPS than multicannons, as well as much greater versatility in use. If they could have Overcharged, a class 1 shock cannon would have roughly the same sustained DPS as a class 3 fixed multicannon.

Shock cannons are basically pre-engineered. Their advantage is that they're cheap and easy to get and use, once unlocked. The game just doesn't give much advantage to this.

But if the crime and punishment system were changed to make that more valuable, I guarantee they'd see use. Imagine if criminals had their ships confiscated for a while, depending on their bounty? Players wouldn't use engineered ships, but instead use prefabs using guardian and tech broker modules. They'd be weaker, helping other players survive, but they wouldn't lose access to their engineered stuff, either. Everybody wins.

 

[Insanerobert]

Honestly, shock cannons would be pretty OP if you allowed them to be engineered. They already have significantly more raw DPS than multicannons, as well as much greater versatility in use. If they could have Overcharged, a class 1 shock cannon would have roughly the same sustained DPS as a class 3 fixed multicannon.

Shock cannons are basically pre-engineered. Their advantage is that they're cheap and easy to get and use, once unlocked. The game just doesn't give much advantage to this.

But if the crime and punishment system were changed to make that more valuable, I guarantee they'd see use. Imagine if criminals had their ships confiscated for a while, depending on their bounty? Players wouldn't use engineered ships, but instead use prefabs using guardian and tech broker modules. They'd be weaker, helping other players survive, but they wouldn't lose access to their engineered stuff, either. Everybody wins.

There are a few reasons why Shock Cannons will not necesarrily be better than Multicannons, same reason why Plasma Accelerator isn't necesarily better than Multicannons although the raw damage output is way better and you do Absolute damage with them. Sustained fire, weapons jitter and projectile speed.

Yess, the Shock cannon is theoretically way better in stock shape than a Multicannon and Cannon forms in same class by damage per shot, but Multicannons guarantee the best range+projectile speed while having smaller armor penetration and damage per hit, the cannon is supposed to guarantee the best damage per hit + better armor piercing with small rate of fire plus less ammo and slow travel speed (also requires more trigger discipline) and the Shock cannon loses armor piercing a bit but gains rate of fire and a bit of damage over cannons - completely negated by the overheating speed and increased jitter in sustained fire (the more you shoot, the less you hit).

In real combat, I tested all 3 types of guns (on same PVE types of ships - mind you that player-based ships will be stronger if engineered) and Mutlicannons are better most of the time + if you get the corrosive shell on one of the guns armor does not matter anymore. The cannon may hit important modules and break them since it can pierce armor, but it will miss a lot of the time and will have a signifficantly smaller DPS on the hull (even if engineered), while the Shock cannon can take care of smaller targets quickly but if you meet a stronger ship with armor resistant like a Fer-De-Lance, you will expend all your Shock cannon ammo on that ship to kill it and will still go down slower than Cannons and Multicannons. All 3 types were Class-2, Gimballed. In the same experience, the Mutlicannon was the best in sustained DPS, the Cannon was the best in damage/ammo count - surprisingly (possibly because I was also more reserved at shooting and conserving those 100 shots compared to Multicannon and I used the lasers in parallel with them due to their slow fire rate and long reload time) and the Shock Cannons did the fastest damage in a short window of time, but with most ammo loss due to missed hits by jitter and slow projectile speed and ran dry of ammo too quick. The autoloader also will make you lose the ammo count if you do not pay attention - in the same conditions.

 

[CaptKarel]

I use shock cannons on my trade Python in conjuction with 2 efficient TV Beams. I can dispatch most NPC pirates very quickly with this combination. Shooting the beams with the shock cannons keep the temp down after the shields are down. Engagement after an interdiction is usally short so the low ammo count is not a problem.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Honestly, shock cannons would be pretty OP if you allowed them to be engineered. They already have significantly more raw DPS than multicannons, as well as much greater versatility in use. If they could have Overcharged, a class 1 shock cannon would have roughly the same sustained DPS as a class 3 fixed multicannon.

Shock cannons are basically pre-engineered. Their advantage is that they're cheap and easy to get and use, once unlocked. The game just doesn't give much advantage to this.

But if the crime and punishment system were changed to make that more valuable, I guarantee they'd see use. Imagine if criminals had their ships confiscated for a while, depending on their bounty? Players wouldn't use engineered ships, but instead use prefabs using guardian and tech broker modules. They'd be weaker, helping other players survive, but they wouldn't lose access to their engineered stuff, either. Everybody wins.

trigger mechanism makes them not so great, also even in pve worse shot speed than multis makes that theoretical dps not that great in practice, if anything they would be rather alternative for frags than multis, with better shot speed, lower sprread, but much worse distributor draw and absurdly high heat generation in burst mode (3x of SRB plasma of same size)
But i agree that OC or SRB mos in current form on them would be a bit OP for a gimbal weapon, it would be too good gimbal frag cannon in practice, but limited engineering like sturdy, LW, hi cap, maybe lr would be ok, and some experimental effects

 

[Chaparral]

Feeling a little Necro tonight.

The Shock Cannon has a total damage potential of 3328.


The Overcharged Corrosive Multi-cannon has a damage potential of 6531 + adds the corrosive effect degrading armor effectiveness.


Basic Shock Cannon Reloads Require
2 Lead
3 Grid Resistors
2 Heat Dispersion Plate
2 Focus Crystals
2 Phase Alloys

Basic Multi-cannon Reloads Require

2 Iron
1 Nickel
2 Sulphur

Can FDEV please adjust the Shock Cannon reloads to a set of 3 Tier 2 Raws?

It's a great model, great sound, but just isn't competitive with other weapons in its current state.

 

[sinkarma]

I agree with making shock cannons deal absolute damage and chaning their synth requirement.

LORE says they are plasma weapons after all