...build a proper mine train

Heya,

currently I am trying to build a "realistic" park and themewise I ha ve a nice spot for a mine train. Now I am struggling with building one which has reasonable height (like max. ~30m). But I can't seem to figure out to get a decent lenght on that coaster because I lose speed too fast (and a second chainlift is a no no for me :)). How do you build your mine trains? Lenght, average/max speed, which elements do you use? What is typical for a mine train? Dunno if that question makes sense, I am kinda looking for inspiration and youtube is no real help as it has quite some rides but hardly any video describing how the coaster is built.

Cheers
 
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A mine train is usually a family coaster that runs at moderate speeds (30-50 km/h).
The train is usually very long and helps smooth out longitudinal accelerations (the train picks up and looses speed very slowly). The speed feels almost constant.

Right after the chain lift, you need to use a short but clear drop to pick up enough speed. It doesn't need to be particularly steep but it needs to be about 5m in order to bring the train to it's cruising speed . (feel free to add a partial helix during the first drop but not a full 360° helix because the speed is not sufficient enough, it would feel boring).

Then, the rest of the ride is much flatter, but the track is designed to feel very unpredictable, with lots of short twists, small drops, and crests as well as long helixes.
You can choose to make a steeper and longer first drop, or to do a large secondary mid course to create a high speed area. But don't keep the speed that high for long, otherwise you're not doing a mine train coaster anymore.

Avoid long straight sections, use small turns and helixes as often as possible. If you somehow need a straight line in your track to join a specific spot, make sure to break the line by doing some abrupt small elevation changes (it creates a small bump).
You can choose to use a constant low downwards grade in order to maintain a constant speed, or build the turns flat and add short drops between each turn. It's your choice.
The constant low downwards grade is a bit tricky since you're building very close to the ground (the game will constantly try to pitch up).
Also, since this is a mine train, make sure you play a lot with the terrain and some tunnels by constantly switching between insides and outsides. Use and abuse of "head choppers" to make the guests duck in the seats.

The height over the terrain is usually very low which means that in order to make your mine train realistic, you will have to play with the terrain editor a lot.
Most real mine train coaster have very low height and use multiple chain lifts in order to cut the height of the decorative mining mountain down as much as possible.
The use of multiple short lifts is also useful to keep the fear down by giving the guests some break time to calm down.

You can take example on the most famous mine train coaster : Disney's "Big Thunder Mountain".
It actually has a very low height and uses 3 chain lifts ! (the one in Paris has a more height and a 4th chain lift right at the end, just for safety due to the use of a tunnel below the station level in order to transit under the lake)
[video=youtube;WBLcX1eWd-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBLcX1eWd-0&t=337s[/video]

If you want to use a single lift hill, you'll have to use a much bigger lift hill (you'll need much more than 30m height), to bring the train on top of a much higher and larger mountain.

The big difficulty in building a realistic mine train coaster is playing with the terrain.
DO NOT BUILD THE MOUNTAIN FIRST AND THEN TUNNEL THROUGH. It's not that it's impossible, but it is hard as ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎ to see what you are doing when building underground (especially when you're building deep enough for the game to register the cave should be in darkness). You also won't be able to orient yourself and the camera will make you go crazy.

The easiest thing to do is to just build the coaster in the air, and then add the mountain later, however, the game will always keep a 4m radius of clear air around the track including under the track (which is very annoying).
The only way to have the rails on the ground (or close enough to look like it's on the ground), is to build the terrain first (as I said, it's not practical, don't do it).

A work around is to build the coaster first, fill up the mountain, and then edit piece by piece the parts where you want the track to be close to the terrain :
-remove the piece
-raise the terrain by just a bit
-rebuild the piece (use autocomplete to fill the gap)

If you want to use this technique : make sure you do not use the shortest 4m pieces nor the longest 20m pieces (autocomplete does not work if you use pieces at the limit of building capabilities).
Also quick tip : when eventually you'll want to edit terrain or scenery while underground : switch the camera to free-look mode (default key : T). It will save you a lot of hair.
 
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Wow, thanks alot for this very detailed reply. That's what I was looking for. With your help I found out the major problems with my ride...and ended up removing it completely :) But not for good, will just follow the characteristics you mentioned.

The 1-Lift-idea was kinda because I thought to remember that the mine train I know does also has just one. Well as I see now after some wikipedia-research, I was wrong. It also has three lifthills ("Colorado Adventure" near Cologne in Germany). Unfortunately I haven't been able to ride that coaster for many years as my legs grew too long [rolleyes].

Anyway, really appreciate the reply, thanks again. I am looking forward to rebuilding the mine train :)
 
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currently I am trying to build a "realistic" park and themewise I ha ve a nice spot for a mine train. Now I am struggling with building one which has reasonable height (like max. ~30m). But I can't seem to figure out to get a decent lenght on that coaster because I lose speed too fast (and a second chainlift is a no no for me :)). How do you build your mine trains? Lenght, average/max speed, which elements do you use? What is typical for a mine train? Dunno if that question makes sense, I am kinda looking for inspiration and youtube is no real help as it has quite some rides but hardly any video describing how the coaster is built.

@BlackShark gave some really good advice. Hopefully I can add a few more things...

The Canyon Runner "mine train" coaster might be on the family tab but it's not required to actually be a family-friendly coaster. It can do down at a 60^ angle so can accelerate very quickly and easily reach speeds of 50+mph. It's thus quite possible to make it lethal, especially because the max bank angle is only 45^, so you don't want to be going into turns too fast. The upshot is, you should have no trouble getting "green" excitement of 7 or above due to speed and its potential for multiple airtime hills, but with that will almost inevitably come "green" or higher fear (4+) unless you're careful to slow down before making turns.

The thing about "green" (4+) fear is that only about 20% of families will ride it if the fear is above 4.0, only about 10% if the fear is above 4.5, and none at all at 5.0 and above. So, how you build the coaster depends on your target demographic. As things stand at present, coasters with excitement of about 5, fear slightly less than 4, and nausea of 1-2, are simply the most popular and profitable rides you can have. Everybody flocks to such rides, and the Canyon Runner can have very high throughput with multiple long trains. But if you go for "all green" stats, you'll only have teens and adults on it, and it won't make nearly as much money, especially if it has to compete with a mondo hybrid or other "big boy" coaster.

Thus, you generally want to build a Canyon Runner for families because you can make better "big boy" coasters on different chassis. And that primarily means keeping fear just barely below 4, which means keeping the speed down to Wendigo levels, which will pull the excitement down to the 5-6 sub-green level. To do this, you can either not have much of a lift hill, so even with a long, steep drop, you still won't go too fast, and the overall track will be relatively short. Or you can go with a tall lift hill but then descend in a long series of short dips and climbs to keep the speed down, instead of a series of big drops and big hills like with a wooden coaster. This results in a relatively long track. However, it's quite possible and also desirable to have the track all tangled up with many head-choppers and switchbacks over itself, and the longer the track, the greater the prestige, so long tracks can be had in a relatively small footprint. And the longer the track, the more trains you can run so the higher the throughput of what, if done family-friendly, will almost certainly be a very popular ride.

As to multiple trains, the real limit is that the Canyon Runner has a long train, so reload time is quite long. If you want to run multiple trains and keep them all as long as possible, you absolutely have to use a station with entrance and exit on opposite sides of the platform. Then you can put the exit gate in the center of the train, which minimizes the time required for the old customers to leave the platform, and put the entrance near the rear of the train, which helps make sure the last cars get filled. Still, for a track of reasonable length (say a 25m lift), you should only try to run 2 trains due to the time required for old passengers to exit.
 
Aye, you were able to add some helpful things. I actually was always aiming for a green excitement value but now learned that it's not really neccessary. Thanks for the info about the ratings.

With the infos both of you supplied, I was now able to create a much better mine train than before. Goes with 5.23 excitement, 3.37 fear and 0.54 nausea, 1169m length, reasonable height of 27m and three trains with no waiting time at the block breaks unless the mechanic stops by :)
It's by far not perfect but I know what I gotta go for now. So thanks alot.
 
With the infos both of you supplied, I was now able to create a much better mine train than before. Goes with 5.23 excitement, 3.37 fear and 0.54 nausea, 1169m length, reasonable height of 27m and three trains with no waiting time at the block breaks unless the mechanic stops by :)
It's by far not perfect but I know what I gotta go for now. So thanks alot.

Just be sure to test it in sandbox before putting it in a money-oriented park. Test mode only shows how fast the gate animations work. It takes no account of the actual time required for old passengers to walk slowly from the train to the exit gate and off the platform entirely, then a wait of 1-2 seconds before the gates open and the next batch of passengers can begin to board, then another wait of 1-2 seconds for the restraints to lock and the train to start moving. IOW, test mode VASTLY underestimates the loading cycle. The only way to determine the true number of trains you can run, and how many cars each train can have, is to do it with live peeps in sandbox.
 
Yeah, I experienced those testmode issues. Also on that Rolling river thing...where it suggests a absolutely impossible minimum departure time of 3 seconds. But my current park is a complrete sandbox park. It's just for the fun of building after doing all the scenarios. Still though, the coaster works fine and makes decent profit (which I dont need in this mode but it is good to know ;-)).
 
I've managed better turnover by making a shorter train, and running two in block-control mode. I put a 3-meter rise (sometimes on a curve) behind the station, add a block brake and two regulated brakes, and then build to attach to that.
 
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