I've been playing around a bit with Eagle and Viper and am really irritated by their power starvation. They get this one weapon mount more than their multirole peer (Eagle-Sidey, Viper-Adder), fairly capable power distributor and a wellsized internal compartment for shields, but all of that needs power. Power that that little power plant just can't deliver. Let's compare Eagle and Sidey, all A. Sidey can run dual rails just fine, Eagle gets power starved with anything greater than one beam and two multis (again, with all A modules). Eagle needs a class 3 powerplant. Even with that you still couldn't run it with 3 rails, as that would still exceed the 12MW power of the class 3 plant. Viper is similar, it needs a class 4. And probably the Vulture will be just as starved.
Bump up powerplant size for fighters by one level
- Thread starter Cmdr. Numa
- Start date
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
I think the Eagle's power issues make for an excellent ingame reason for why that line of fighters was phased out and is no longer manufactured, even though it is still in use by some navys.
Powerpants being too small is serious problem in big part of western countries. Best solution to it would be to simply start consuming less, but getting bigger pants indeed solves the issue temporarily. Another solution would be the japanese way. They use very small pants on their heavyweight fighters, but seem to do quite well anyway, I guess it's mainly Learn to Play issue.
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Edit: it makes more interesting play though, that your pants limit what you can pack in. Having a huge cannon should be balanced in other factors. It wouldn't be fair if the guy with the biggest beam would also be the most agile while using it.
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Edit: it makes more interesting play though, that your pants limit what you can pack in. Having a huge cannon should be balanced in other factors. It wouldn't be fair if the guy with the biggest beam would also be the most agile while using it.
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InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
You people are unbelievable... one single letter missing and you are all back in the schoolyard 
It would be nice to have more power but surely the smaller powerplant is the trade-off for having a smaller, nimbler ship with better placed hardpoints?
I find it far more bizarre that the Eagle is so slow in a straight line and that a Viper doesn't have a significantly higher boost speed over a Cobra.
I find it far more bizarre that the Eagle is so slow in a straight line and that a Viper doesn't have a significantly higher boost speed over a Cobra.
...and back on topic.
I do find it a bit odd that if I stick an A class power-plant in a ship I can't just put 'A-class-everything-else' and not have the thing run out of power. The ships really ought to be designed so that's what you're aiming for.
Yes, having to make choices to upgrade one module over another as you make money keeps things interesting, and there's always going to be occasions where the difference between an A and a B might not be worth worrying too much about, but once you can afford that shiny Viper with all the optional extras straight off the forecourt, the damn thing should just work.
Budgeting really isn't all that fun, especially when you have so much money you could probably pay someone stupid amounts of money to make a souped up non-standard power-plant.
...hey, now that's an idea.
I do find it a bit odd that if I stick an A class power-plant in a ship I can't just put 'A-class-everything-else' and not have the thing run out of power. The ships really ought to be designed so that's what you're aiming for.
Yes, having to make choices to upgrade one module over another as you make money keeps things interesting, and there's always going to be occasions where the difference between an A and a B might not be worth worrying too much about, but once you can afford that shiny Viper with all the optional extras straight off the forecourt, the damn thing should just work.
Budgeting really isn't all that fun, especially when you have so much money you could probably pay someone stupid amounts of money to make a souped up non-standard power-plant.
...hey, now that's an idea.
You people are unbelievable... one single letter missing and you are all back in the schoolyard
It was funny. Sorry for that typo, and thanks T.j
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
I just played around a bit on eliteshipyard, and it appears that the OP is right.
An A-grade Eagle would require an A3 power plant to run. And that is only if the utility mount does not carry an A-grade scanner (rather E-grade, if scanner is a must).
[Eagle]
S: 1G/G Burst Laser
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon
U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner
BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 2A Power Plant ---> available power: 9,60
TM: 3A Thrusters
FH: 3A Frame Shift Drive
EC: 1A Life Support
PC: 2A Power Distributor
SS: 2A Sensors
FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)
3: 3A Shield Generator
2: 2A Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
1: 1A Shield Cell Bank
Power with weapons deployed: (124 %) 11,94
Power with weapons retracted: (108 %) 10,36
A3 Power plant maximum power: 12,00
An A-grade Eagle would require an A3 power plant to run. And that is only if the utility mount does not carry an A-grade scanner (rather E-grade, if scanner is a must).
[Eagle]
S: 1G/G Burst Laser
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon
S: 1G/G Multi-cannon
U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner
BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 2A Power Plant ---> available power: 9,60
TM: 3A Thrusters
FH: 3A Frame Shift Drive
EC: 1A Life Support
PC: 2A Power Distributor
SS: 2A Sensors
FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)
3: 3A Shield Generator
2: 2A Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
1: 1A Shield Cell Bank
Power with weapons deployed: (124 %) 11,94
Power with weapons retracted: (108 %) 10,36
A3 Power plant maximum power: 12,00
Blackcompany
Banned
Oddly, I would support the idea of the Viper having a larger power plant. But the Eagle...I think it has such an advantage in terms of price and maneuverability, that keeping it slightly power starved might be necessary to avoid making it too good. But the larger, slightly bulkier Viper...yeah, it needs more power.
I am not the only one who doesn't want the Eagle, or any ship for that matter, to be designed, balanced and regarded lore-wise as "outdated", and thereby demoted to mere "noob equipment".
In particular with regards to the Eagle, I have waited more than 10 years (since Freelancer) for another game to feature a ship looking similar to the Dagger:
And now it is the same story all over. In Freelancer, that ship was a rather low level one, too, and absolutely outclassed by the more expensive ships (the level-based system was the central problem of the game anyway). And then FD create the Eagle, and at first sight everything seems perfect until in the end, the overall balancing shows that it is yet again just a stepping stone towards a "real" "end game" ship.
This has happened ever since the revamp of the power requirements for shield cells and lasers. Now, even bigger and better ships are gimped for power. It would have been better to have shield cells as a one shot item like the shields, you can only mount one. That was the main problem, players mounting two or three on a ship, making them almost invulnerable, it has nothing to do with the number of charges or the power drain so FD has only succeeded in over-nerfing them. The overheating of lasers was to solve an issue of them being too OP on bigger ships with multiple lasers but it succeeded in making them useless for smaller ships because they do little damage and overheat far too quickly now.
When you do something to "balance" a problem, make sure your solution has the right effect across all ships, not just the one(s) you are correcting the problem for.
I've said this before and it was the reason I left Eve. Balancing should only have the desired effect on the ships/items you wish to balance. If it has a detrimental effect on anything else, a different approach should be used. A new player may have spent a lot of credits (relatively speaking) to fit out their first combat ship. If you make it totally useless by nerfs to balance bigger ships, these new players may not be players at all much longer and they certainly won't be recommending the game to anyone else.
When you do something to "balance" a problem, make sure your solution has the right effect across all ships, not just the one(s) you are correcting the problem for.
I've said this before and it was the reason I left Eve. Balancing should only have the desired effect on the ships/items you wish to balance. If it has a detrimental effect on anything else, a different approach should be used. A new player may have spent a lot of credits (relatively speaking) to fit out their first combat ship. If you make it totally useless by nerfs to balance bigger ships, these new players may not be players at all much longer and they certainly won't be recommending the game to anyone else.
The Eagle reminds me of the Z-95 Headhunter from starwars.
But if it was the Z-95 Headhunter, then there would be a way to shoehorn a larger reactor into it.
In Star wars lore the headhunter is a very old starfighter. BUT it is very popular, to the point where a mechanic could build a unique Z-95 Headhunter from aftermarket parts alone.
If the Eagle is a popular yet outdated fighter, one can imagine aftermarket companies releasing parts that would fit the bill.
I say there should be an alternate chassis of the smaller craft simply because they are so popular.
If this was so I would ditch the single C5 power plant in my ASP and replace it with two C4 power plants. They weigh the same but are cheaper.
But if it was the Z-95 Headhunter, then there would be a way to shoehorn a larger reactor into it.
In Star wars lore the headhunter is a very old starfighter. BUT it is very popular, to the point where a mechanic could build a unique Z-95 Headhunter from aftermarket parts alone.
If the Eagle is a popular yet outdated fighter, one can imagine aftermarket companies releasing parts that would fit the bill.
I say there should be an alternate chassis of the smaller craft simply because they are so popular.
If this was so I would ditch the single C5 power plant in my ASP and replace it with two C4 power plants. They weigh the same but are cheaper.
Lol. I posted about this too. Try fitting an Eagle with class A all, no utility mounts, a class 3 generator, class 2 cargo rack, class 1A fuel scoop, and a set of gimballed beam lasers for the mounts. A long endurance bounty hunting fit. Sorry bud, you can't do that. That would be too powerful. I like your point to about the shield cells and lasers. Personally, I never carry shield cells, but lasers are my primary weapon, since even the multi-cannons eventually run dry of ammo. I would never want to go exploring, only to find 90/90 ammo 200 ly from a friendly station.