PvP C & P at Omega

[CMDR_Halceon]

Hello, all. I'm hoping to ask a specific question about how crime and punishment has been working. Specifically, with all the action at Omega mining, have ATR been a deterrent, and if not, why not?

Background: I've read lots of posts about the now not-so-new crime and punishment system, but sometimes the comments haven't been terribly specific about pros and cons. My memory is that it wasn't intended to stop killers of clean ships, but it did have an intention to force them not to stay in one place too long. The fighting at Omega seemed to be in one place, and I'm just curious how that aspect of the game was playing out.

I can think of a few possibilities:
- ATR just aren't outside of the bubble,
- Player kills of typical explorer builds are so fast that no response gets there in time, or
- ATR aren't actually that difficult to defeat in the right-engineered ship.

Anyway, since I've read claims that C&P isn't doing what it set out to do, but they've often been vague on the details, I was interested in how it's been going in this particular case (or a more general discussion if you'd like).

 

[PeLucheuh]

ATR is in the system and pop time to time (medium security afaik).

It is deterrent in the sense that if they pop, people will high wake from the system and come back (no reason to risk a fight against a cheated but very dumb AI).
But most of the time "exploration only" build will get destroyed very fast because the game, especially in Open, is not restricted to a specific activity (no matter what people want).

About the claim you heard, i can only say that it seems to work as intended by FDev (and in line with what they have said about new C&P) :

3.0 C&P and explanation post

video

 

[CMDR_Halceon]

Thanks. So it sounds like they are a slow down, but not an absolute impediment. That's what I was curious about.

 

[Arguendo]

This part of the explanation post does not work as intended imo:

Once ATR ships respond to crimes, they will continue to respond until the Commander leaves the system.

They are not persistant through instances, so you don't even have to hi-wake. A low-wake will do and they will forget all about you until you commit another crime. And like PeLucheuh said, TTK when going after Exploration (and some Trade) builds is so low, they don't have time to stop you from finishing the job. So a criminal doesn't have to leave the system at all, and as long as they can kill fast enough they can keep it going indefinitely.
Non-persistance and lack of tracking in Supercruise is the biggest downfall of ATR imho. Other than that, ATR and the new C&P ain't half bad

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Thanks. So it sounds like they are a slow down, but not an absolute impediment. That's what I was curious about.

Which is why if the DW2 organizers had been smarter about choosing their jump-off point, the death toll would have been far less.

They chose a Low-Sec system, which (aside from the bounties and notoriety) may as well have been Anarchy.

 

[CMDR_Halceon]

Ah, so ATR doesn't interdict you while in supercruise? Just appear in instance? I can see where that would limit their effectiveness.

 

[PeLucheuh]

This part of the explanation post does not work as intended imo:

Once ATR ships respond to crimes, they will continue to respond until the Commander leaves the system.

To me it looks like it is working as intended because ATR respond to crimes and will continue to respond to crimes until the CMDR high wake. After the high wake, when you are back in the system, ATR does not respond to crimes anymore.
There is no indication that ATR was intended to do more.

 

[Arguendo]

Ah, so ATR doesn't interdict you while in supercruise? Just appear in instance? I can see where that would limit their effectiveness.

ATR isn't present in Supercruise at all. They only appear after a crime has been committed and only in that instance (ie normal space).

To me it looks like it is working as intended because ATR respond to crimes and will continue to respond to crimes until the CMDR high wake. After the high wake, when you are back in the system, ATR does not respond to crimes anymore.
There is no indication that ATR was intended to do more.

Sandro talked about ATR in a live stream and from that I understood that ATR's intention was to force cmdrs to leave by chasing them relentlessly. What ATR does now does not fit that bill.
I agree that the sentence in the explanation can be interpreted as you describe though, but that's not what I interpreted Sandro's expanded explanation in the live stream. I reserve the right to have misunderstood that too though

 

[PeLucheuh]

Sandro talked about ATR in a live stream and from that I understood that ATR's intention was to force cmdrs to leave by chasing them relentlessly. What ATR does now does not fit that bill.
I agree that the sentence in the explanation can be interpreted as you describe though, but that's not what I interpreted Sandro's expanded explanation in the live stream. I reserve the right to have misunderstood that too though

ok, fair enough

 

[fieval]

The ATR not being in Super Cruise is a surprise (to me).

I cannot see why they could not be there, I have been interdicted by Military NPC (stop and search).
It would add another layer of depth to the game.

If you have a "Wanted" tag the chance of ATR attempting an interdiction increases ? (could also get a little annoying/boring if you are being interdicted I guess ?)