General / Off-Topic Can a US President Pardon Himself?

This is a theoretical question, which may suddenly become very practical.

I would like to know what you think. Just as laymen. Or if you're legally trained, better.

Here's some news coverage.

Here's my take:

No, he cannot do so ethically. But it might be legally possible because it isn't specifically prohibited.

WHY:
Principle of Conflict of Interest.

A President who exercised a Pardon is affecting a sentence. Therefore he is performing as a Judge.
A Person may not judge his son, or wife, or father, or HIMSELF because the adjudication cannot be free from bias.
* Bill Clinton gave his brother a pardon. However the sentence had already been served in full. This is considered a highly controversial pardon.

Principle of Obstruction of Justice.

In every case where a President pardons an individual, we assume that this pardon does not have a bearing on ongoing prosecutions of investigations into the President himself.

* There have been several cases of Pardons being used to interfere with ongoing investigations.
H.W. Bush pardoned Casper Weinberger, Reagan's Secretary of defense to stop investigations into Iran-Contra, which involved H.W. Bush himself.
Arguably, more despicable even than Clinton's pardon.
His son, G. W. Bush pardoned Scooter Libby, to protect the vice President Cheney.


It would seem that the whole idea of a country that fought for independence from a Monarchy is at stake here.
The underlying idea of all men being equal under a Common Law is now in question.
If pardons for the President are possible, then how are Presidential actions to be constrained?

What is to stop a person from committing any series of crimes once he acquires the Office?

No decent President would consider this. The Founders that wrote the Constitution evidently didn't consider it.
 
Last edited:
A pardon is not the same thing as a vindication or exoneration though is it? In order to pardon someone they need to accept that they have been guilty of a crime.

Surely if the president is guilty of a crime of colluding with hostile foreign powers in order to win an election he would at the very least have to be impeached, even if his pardon shields him from prosecution/prison.
 
A pardon is not the same thing as a vindication or exoneration though is it? In order to pardon someone they need to accept that they have been guilty of a crime.

Surely if the president is guilty of a crime of colluding with hostile foreign powers in order to win an election he would at the very least have to be impeached, even if his pardon shields him from prosecution/prison.

I'm not sure that's the case.

A pardon must happen after the crime (no pre pardons) but can happen before any charges are brought and I believe it does expunge the official record. I think Clinton pardoned a relative late in his office. The relative had served his sentence (I want to say for drug related or maybe fraud crimes) but the pardon expunged the record which would have implications for this game like voting, firearms and so on.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/21/16007934/donald-trump-mueller-russia-investigation-pardon-impeachment

Link to a bunch of legal opinions. Site. Has an anti trump bias but is generally reasonably factual.
 
US President inspects a new fire truck

16168053.jpg
 

Minonian

Banned
Even if he can, it's too conflicting and morally problematic to do it without serious legal and acceptance problems.
 
I have said this before:

To require a pardon, also requires an admission of guilt. An admission of guilt, means a crime has been committed and for a president that means, leaving the oval office and therefore no longer being in the position to grant the pardon.

In short no: However this is Lord Chump we are dealing with and he just seams to say and do as he likes, after which one side applauds and cheers and the other just huff and puffs. Meanwhile the Chump just moves on to the next distraction and then another saga.
 
This is a theoretical question, which may suddenly become very practical.

I would like to know what you think. Just as laymen. Or if you're legally trained, better.

Here's some news coverage.

Here's my take:

No, he cannot do so ethically. But it might be legally possible because it isn't specifically prohibited.

WHY:
Principle of Conflict of Interest.

A President who exercised a Pardon is affecting a sentence. Therefore he is performing as a Judge.
A Person may not judge his son, or wife, or father, or HIMSELF because the adjudication cannot be free from bias.
* Bill Clinton gave his brother a pardon. However the sentence had already been served in full. This is considered a highly controversial pardon.

Principle of Obstruction of Justice.

In every case where a President pardons an individual, we assume that this pardon does not have a bearing on ongoing prosecutions of investigations into the President himself.

* There have been several cases of Pardons being used to interfere with ongoing investigations.
H.W. Bush pardoned Casper Weinberger, Reagan's Secretary of defense to stop investigations into Iran-Contra, which involved H.W. Bush himself.
Arguably, more despicable even than Clinton's pardon.
His son, G. W. Bush pardoned Scooter Libby, to protect the vice President Cheney.


It would seem that the whole idea of a country that fought for independence from a Monarchy is at stake here.
The underlying idea of all men being equal under a Common Law is now in question.
If pardons for the President are possible, then how are Presidential actions to be constrained?

What is to stop a person from committing any series of crimes once he acquires the Office?

No decent President would consider this. The Founders that wrote the Constitution evidently didn't consider it.



I think the Problem will be Legal rather than any Principles.

He can only Pardon someone if that someone is found Guilty.
But if he is Found Guilty this will likely mean he is no longer the President.

So it might solve itself way easier than Trump thinks.


I actually think he never meant he will Pardon Himself.
As President he has Immunity in front of the Law.
The stuff he can be taken to Court for will usually not go to Court before he is removed from Office.
So he would no longer have any Option to Pardon anyone if this happened because he would be Removed from Court by the Senate etc and then taken to Court afterwards.


I think he talked about his Henchmen and his Son etc.
Which are already much deeper in the crab and where there is already quite alot Evidence from Investigations gathered which is currently making its way all over the Place.
In Short if his Son and his other Henchmen are Found Guilty he will Simply Pardon them.
 
Yes. As many as used to turn up for a Spice Girls concert. It didn't make them any good though did it?

And I don't really see how that means he can pardon himself. I'm not sure "45,000 turned out to see me so I can be a criminal" is a logical train of thought.

well, to answer your question if he can pardon himself, yes he can, to point to the picture, the impeachment is far far away.
And there are many other things and parallels you can draw to the picture, but lets just leave at that :)
 
Back
Top Bottom