Can somebody explain MASS in outfitting?

glynie

glynie
Hey,

Sorry about this total noob question, but until now I've basically just been trading. Got myself up to broker rank which I think is a good time to take a break. Want to get myself a decent Cobra but I've never quite paid attention to what the MASS reading is all about in outfitting before.

MASS: CURRENT A/B, MAX C/D

What is the difference between A, B, C and D? What kind of effect do these things have on...well everything?

Thanks very much for your help.
 

fergal

fergal
D has less mass, B has most.
A, C and E are all the same.

Mass makes your ship slower, have worse acceleration, generally handle poorer.
Also shortens your jump range.
 

glynie

glynie
Hey Fergal, thanks for your reply. Sorry, I should clarify. I used 'A B C D' to indicate which variables I'm asking about - in the bottom right corner of the screen on outfitting there is a row aside for MASS which has the heading CURRENT and MAX above values somethingA/somethingB and somethingC/somethingD. I'm just curious to know the difference between them all and their use.

I understand however that generally speaking, lower mass is better.

EDIT: For example, why is MAX not a fixed value? The maximum, like the current, changes with each outfitting.
 
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fergal

fergal
I think it has your current and max mass.
The max mass is if you have a full fuel tank and all your cargo bays are full.
 

Cat_Astrophe

Cat_Astrophe
I bet what you are wondering is if there is any hidden trick to matching the "Optimum" mass with shields and thrusters.
.
Short answer: didn't seem to be when I tried it. A thruster with matched optimum mass still went slower than a higher rated thruster. Shields seem to add capacity as they go up in rating. There may yet be some clever differences between them that I missed during my crude testing tho... and we all know how game experiences tend to change over time.
 

glynie

glynie
fergal said:
The max mass is if you have a full fuel tank and all your cargo bays are full.
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Ahhh, okay I gotcha. Thanks :)


Cat_Astrophe said:
I bet what you are wondering is if there is any hidden trick to matching the "Optimum" mass with shields and thrusters.
.
Short answer: didn't seem to be when I tried it. A thruster with matched optimum mass still went slower than a higher rated thruster. Shields seem to add capacity as they go up in rating. There may yet be some clever differences between them that I missed during my crude testing tho... and we all know how game experiences tend to change over time.
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Right, thanks for the replies guys. That's cleared things up for me :)
 

Belsameth

Belsameth
Cat_Astrophe said:
I bet what you are wondering is if there is any hidden trick to matching the "Optimum" mass with shields and thrusters.
.
Short answer: didn't seem to be when I tried it. A thruster with matched optimum mass still went slower than a higher rated thruster. Shields seem to add capacity as they go up in rating. There may yet be some clever differences between them that I missed during my crude testing tho... and we all know how game experiences tend to change over time.
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Been wondering that as well. One would expect that when you're at or slightly below the optimal mass, there's no need to upgrade thrusters, but I feared this was not the case.
If only the outfitting screen wasn't such a confusing mess of vagueness...
 

Kramster

Kramster
Not sure on this but, the main thing to watch for is if your max mass exceeds any of your modules max mass rating as it can reduce their effect. The most obvious being your shields.
The outfitting won't let you buy under rated shields but I think you can effect it afterwards through other ship upgrades
I seem to remember this being mentioned before, could have imagined it though.
 

glynie

glynie
Cat_Astrophe said:
07
.
I'm thinking there *may* be some changes over time so be alert to gripes on the forums about shield nerfs or similar. My gut feeling was that optimum mass should make more difference than what I saw. There's some good info from Michael Brookes on this thread:https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102277
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No worries, I will do, and I'll have a look at the thread you mentioned :)

Kramster said:
Not sure on this but, the main thing to watch for is if your max mass exceeds any of your modules max mass rating as it can reduce their effect. The most obvious being your shields.
The outfitting won't let you buy under rated shields but I think you can effect it afterwards through other ship upgrades
I seem to remember this being mentioned before, could have imagined it though.
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Very useful tip, thank you. I'll bare it in mind.
 

Tripl3P

T
So put simply nobody is exactly sure what all 4 mass numbers mean then, we just know that the 1st number is the total unladen weight and the 3rd number is the total laden weight in tonnes of the ship. What do the 2nd and 4th numbers mean? no one uses that information when choosing modules so why did Frontier even bother to include them, they must mean something other than "this mass is arbitrarily a lot higher than the actual mass of your ship", if this is the case then we can just add further random numbers i.e. Current 450/1000/7 Max 550/1000/30 billion.
I'm guessing that the MAX MASS is literally the heaviest you can make the ship if you kitted it out in the heaviest possible loadout, but its just a guess.
 

CMDR Starschulz

CMDR Starschulz
I heard the reason B rated equipment has more mass is because those are armored more than other modules. not completely sure, as i only heard it and haven't read it first hand.
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
If you experiment with the module purchasing, you'll notice that the only module that makes numbers B and D change is the thrusters. So presumably numbers B and D (which should always be the same, as far as I can tell) is the maximum mass the thrusters you've installed on your ship are capable of shifting.

It won't let you install thrusters that drop your max mass below your actual mass. If you manage to overload your ship, it tells you that you either need to upgrade your thrusters, or (if your thrusters are already maxed out) then you'll have to drop some weight if you're going to be able to launch.
 

Thomas Jefferson Jones

Thomas Jefferson Jones
Sapyx said:
If you experiment with the module purchasing, you'll notice that the only module that makes numbers B and D change is the thrusters. So presumably numbers B and D (which should always be the same, as far as I can tell) is the maximum mass the thrusters you've installed on your ship are capable of shifting.

It won't let you install thrusters that drop your max mass below your actual mass. If you manage to overload your ship, it tells you that you either need to upgrade your thrusters, or (if your thrusters are already maxed out) then you'll have to drop some weight if you're going to be able to launch.
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Right, figure A is the current mass of your ship as it sits on the landing pad displayed in an unladen state, so no cargo - unless I'm mistaken your unladen mass also includes a full tank of fuel. Figure B is the max rated mass of your thrusters' lifting ability.

Figure C is the mass of your ship as it sits on the pad fully laden with cargo, and figure D is just a repeat of your thruster's lifting capacity.

So if you have a ship with no cargo bays, A and B and C and D should always be in lockstep with each other, and as Sapyx says B and D are changed when you fit different thrusters. They numbers are of course also temporarily changed when new equipment is selected but not yet purchased in order to preview the module's merits/demerits against your mass.
 

furrycat

furrycat
For ship mass numbers (the A/B, C/D from above) see this thread from last week: http://xenf-elbe-1sisp5q1cayo0.gtu2tqkexz.eu-west-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/index.php?threads/173955/

For shield numbers, optimum and maximum mass refer to the hull only. You can't fit a shield with a maximum mass less than your hull mass.

For thruster numbers, optimum and maximum mass refer to the hull plus components plus fuel plus cargo. You can't fly at all unless the ship total mass is less than the thruster maximum mass. Stripping your ship may allow you to fit smaller thrusters, whereas a shield which is too small for your ship will always be too small.

Both thrusters and shields have "optimum" mass values. The use of the word "optimum" in this case is unintuitive to most people but what it means effectively is that if your ship mass is above the optimum value the shield/thrusters are less efficient and if its below they are more efficient. Yes, you will go slightly faster with thrusters which have a higher optimum mass. As already mentioned the "maximum" value is an upper bound beyond which you can't use the component. Half the "optimum" value is a lower bound. You won't get any faster with a ship mass less than half the thruster's optimum mass.
 

ocflyer

ocflyer
furrycat said:
For ship mass numbers (the A/B, C/D from above) see this thread from last week: http://xenf-elbe-1sisp5q1cayo0.gtu2tqkexz.eu-west-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/index.php?threads/173955/

For shield numbers, optimum and maximum mass refer to the hull only. You can't fit a shield with a maximum mass less than your hull mass.

For thruster numbers, optimum and maximum mass refer to the hull plus components plus fuel plus cargo. You can't fly at all unless the ship total mass is less than the thruster maximum mass. Stripping your ship may allow you to fit smaller thrusters, whereas a shield which is too small for your ship will always be too small.

Both thrusters and shields have "optimum" mass values. The use of the word "optimum" in this case is unintuitive to most people but what it means effectively is that if your ship mass is above the optimum value the shield/thrusters are less efficient and if its below they are more efficient. Yes, you will go slightly faster with thrusters which have a higher optimum mass. As already mentioned the "maximum" value is an upper bound beyond which you can't use the component. Half the "optimum" value is a lower bound. You won't get any faster with a ship mass less than half the thruster's optimum mass.
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Your answer is the best of all of them. Accurate and to the point. You get +1 rep not because of your answer but because your avatar pic is a cat. I like cats.
 

emacinnes

emacinnes
Cat_Astrophe said:
I bet what you are wondering is if there is any hidden trick to matching the "Optimum" mass with shields and thrusters.
.
Short answer: didn't seem to be when I tried it. A thruster with matched optimum mass still went slower than a higher rated thruster. Shields seem to add capacity as they go up in rating. There may yet be some clever differences between them that I missed during my crude testing tho... and we all know how game experiences tend to change over time.
Click to expand...

The optimum mass is a bit of a misnomer, it's really the "manufacturer's target mass" before performance degrades significantly. So, less than optimum mass gives improved performance of the thruster. More than optimal mass and performance is negatively impacted. Ideally, this should be a chart of mass/performance rather than a point on a chart.

Higher class of thruster generally always better than lower class, higher classes are usually much more expensive as a result, so a class 5 D rated will do better than a Class 4 A rated, assuming speed is the desired result (i.e. for exploring, weight loss and D-rated is more critical to get max range).
 
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Archimedes Crew

A
Cat_Astrophe said:
I bet what you are wondering is if there is any hidden trick to matching the "Optimum" mass with shields and thrusters.
Click to expand...

I have something to add here. I read this on the forum and I use it to design fast ships - although I've never tested it scientifically. If you buy a thruster (of whatever class) with an optimum mass of 100 tonnes say, you get the *best* speed at 50% of this ie. a ship of total mass 50 tonnes in this example. If your ship is 5 tonnes or 49, it doesn't go any faster. After 50% of optimum mass it starts to slow down to some level (but probably not a linear relationship) from that mass up to the maximum allowed, beyond which you aren't allowed to fit it anyway.

Obviously, class A thrusters are faster than E, but something I've never worked out is if C class thrusters are "better" than D. Because D rated modules are always weight saving, a D rated thruster *may* be faster than a C because the ship has an overall lower mass.

B rated thrusters as with all modules are much heavier, so I would definitely always fit A or D rated thrusters if I'm only worried about the best speeds and jump range. If you want to know why B rated modules exist on the roster at all, they are built with added armour apparently, but once my shields have gone I don't stay to find out.
 
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