Can "Space Legs" and VR Coexist?

[Derek Speare [VR]]

It's an important question, one ED may or may not be considering. I think the two are at tension, and until the issues with FPS locomotion and VR are resolved - a significant undertaking - this "Space Legs" business is not a feature I'm wanting for ED.

So what's your perspective? While I agree that some do better with VR/Locomotion than others, many do not. Couple that with the overarching need to have very high performance, something not all Commanders have, and we have the potential for a feature VR folks may not embrace.

Since FD are woefully mum about meaningful community interaction, we're left to speculate about it. I'm more "meh" about it than anything and hope that it may be enabled as an option and not shoved down our throats as mandatory.

 

[xondk]

It's an important question, one ED may or may not be considering. I think the two are at tension, and until the issues with FPS locomotion and VR are resolved - a significant undertaking - this "Space Legs" business is not a feature I'm wanting for ED.

So what's your perspective? While I agree that some do better with VR/Locomotion than others, many do not. Couple that with the overarching need to have very high performance, something not all Commanders have, and we have the potential for a feature VR folks may not embrace.

Since FD are woefully mum about meaningful community interaction, we're left to speculate about it. I'm more "meh" about it than anything and hope that it may be enabled as an option and not shoved down our throats as mandatory.

There are quite a few smaller games out there that seems to have fixed the problem with fps movements and nausea, so who knows.

 

[Derek Speare [VR]]

That's a good point. So perhaps if folks have examples of games doing locomotion well, post them up. I know Robo Recall is one good example, but it's teleportation and not true locomotion, which I ended up liking, surprisingly. Overwatch was another one, but it was wonky.

Something that helps me personally with "presence" is when the actual character's body is modeled. We have this in VR and it helps to bridge the divide psychologically. I'd guess FD would keep our commander's body for extravehicular operations (I like this term better than "Space Legs").

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I think, no utterly convinced, space legs would be a bad idea for Elite.
Regardless of VR or not.

The entire game has been built around never leaving the drivers seat, and that's fine.
A developer cannot remove a series of features and replace them with a set of features that are less efficient.

Having to exit a seat, and walk over to an srv bay, climb in and then deploy is less efficient than what we have.
PERIOD.
You can talk about immersion all day, but do any really want this ?
Just take eve for instance.
The entire game we built around a set interface.
Then after a lot of huffing and puffing and hype. We get the big janitors closet that is utterly superfluous and unnecessary for any part of the game.
Only real change to the game was to increase load times.
First patch was to basically revert the usage of space legs entirely.

As for VR and locomotion.
I actually think it could be done quite brilliantly.
I suggest anyone with a VR set to try out vivecraft with hand flailing motion.

it's brilliant fun way, and completely nausea free. Mileage may vary as with all vr.

I'd much rather have more srv's and fighters and ships than space legs in elite.

Let some other game do that.
But if they do add legs they would HAVE TO first add proper touch control support.

Robo recall, is a good demostratio of teleport use.
But teleporting is and has always utterly broken my immersion.
It's a cop out and only works because it basically is regulated cheating.

 

[Derek Speare [VR]]

"Space Legs" is a waste of time in my opinion. This isn't Star Citizen...we don't need irrelevant "features". I agree that the game can benefit from new ideas and features which make it better and more enjoyable. The ability to walk around is meaningless in this game.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I don't think it will be a problem. Sure we saw a lot of sim sickness prone VR newbies complaining in the early days but as time has gone on traditional locomotion has become pretty common place with less people moaning about it and more people adapting and actually demanding it. Sure there will always be some that can't stand traditional locomotion but there will always be people who cant travel in cars or coaches.

Either way, space legs are coming but as with every other addon, if you don't like it, it's not mandatory that you use it. Personally I won't use the third person gunner mode introduced in Multicrew and I guess if you don't like space legs you won't use that.

 

[X-Terminator]

Nausea is just a matter of getting use to it just as it was for sitting in a chair and playing. Thing is though you'd need a pointer to remind you of where your cockpit chair is again as in RoboRecall but no Telepresence. The game ONWARD (like Arma3) does not induce sickness at all.

In fact bring on no gravity for when the canopy blows!

 

[Minonian]

Skip

Before i forget?

Thank you for the eulogistic words.

 

[Zmidponk]

Well, with games around like Robinson, Farpoint and Resident Evil 7, I don't think there's any issue with the actual mechanics of doing first-person walking around in VR in ED, especially given that RE7 on the PS4 only has VR as an option, not a requirement, just like ED will do. As for whether it's worth it, that really depends on what's done with it. If it's implemented wrongly, or only partially (such as Eve Online's Incarna mess), it would be utterly pointless. However, if ED do it the way that Star Citizen will have it, if that game ever gets finished, or how Eve Online's Incarna thing was planned to be before they basically abandoned it, it might actually be pretty damn good.

 

[X-Terminator]

It looks like FD are testing their Space Legs and done a runner!

 

[BostromNZ]

Definitely. Onward has a really good locomotion system that doesn't make me feel sick. If you try and strafe while running backwards then you'll probably fall over but that's to be expected. As long as they continue to simply fade to black when transitioning from seat to standing or from ship to surface etc. The forced animations in Star Citizen would make you puke in no time.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I've been playing Vivecraft (VR Minecraft) a bit, and I've already adapted to moving through the game FPS style without getting sick. It was the same with the SRV. For a few days, I would get motion sick. Today, I can zip around fliving in my SRV, sometimes tumbling end over end, with no problems what so ever. Unfortunately, I know not everyone is so lucky.

Of course, at the end of the day, VR in Elite is optional, not mandatory, and space legs is a feature I've been looking forward to since the Kickstarter. I'm just hoping it will be designed to take roomscale VR into account, and utilize the various hand controllers like the Vive controller or the Oculus Touch. I doubt it will, but one can hope.

 

[Derek Speare [VR]]

It would be asinine to expect VR users to abandon VR use altogether to avoid a new feature. If FD are reading this, don't make that kind of stupid mistake. Expecting someone to do that is preposterous.

Personally I think that game mode is a complete and utter waste of time, but whatever. The world is full of run and gun shooters. ED doesn't need to be one of those too.

 

[CylonSurfer]

It would be asinine to expect VR users to abandon VR use altogether to avoid a new feature. If FD are reading this, don't make that kind of stupid mistake. Expecting someone to do that is preposterous.

Personally I think that game mode is a complete and utter waste of time, but whatever. The world is full of run and gun shooters. ED doesn't need to be one of those too.

I think the same about the third person VR content in this game, immersive VR for me is first person content. I don't do third person in VR and that is my choice and for this reason I don't use those features while playing Elite in VR. I guess you'll have to make the same choice, and that choice is not a choice to continue to play in VR or not, but if you use space legs in VR or not.

Personally speaking, I look forward to space legs. Not for space FPS but so I can explore my ship beyond the cockpit & so I can explore space stations interiors and meet other players etc. Maybe FDEV will add some sort of comfort mode for the sim sick prone VR users, much like they did with the SRV... time will tell. I'd want the full experience personally, non of that diluted teleportation rubbish.

 

[imski]

Provided there are opportunities to Eva for repairs, interact with non combat items in stations and planet surfaces it can work.

If it's only combat it's a lost opportunity. Thinking about it, EVA using suit thrusters could be done so easily already as it's basically the same as an SRV or SLF.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think, no utterly convinced, space legs would be a bad idea for Elite.
Regardless of VR or not.

The entire game has been built around never leaving the drivers seat, and that's fine.
A developer cannot remove a series of features and replace them with a set of features that are less efficient.

They have stated several times that the game has actually been design so that getting out of your seat isn't an issue. As regards to why you would go meet the rep instead of use the mission board, well I can think of a number of reasons. Them being more lucrative, better or more interesting follow on missions, the ability to barter with people, the list can go on.

With regards to VR, I suppose it will be the method of movement that makes you feel ill.

I intend to get one of these:

https://www.3drudder.com/

As I believe it helps with VR sickness. Using your legs and feet to move would make it feel more natural and easier to fool your brain.

 

[CMDR Rison]

If I had to guess, I'd think they would go for a completely seated vr space legs experience. Though if they implemented motion controller aiming, I would very much like it but it might complicate things and add balance issues.

And I fall in the camp that thinks space legs is a good thing for Elite. I'm looking forward to it and I would also like to see a change to the way we do things. I understand those in this thread who like the menu-based interface (it's fast and convenient), but I would prefer a little more immersion, even at the expense of convenience.

 

[xondk]

"Space Legs" is a waste of time in my opinion. This isn't Star Citizen...we don't need irrelevant "features". I agree that the game can benefit from new ideas and features which make it better and more enjoyable. The ability to walk around is meaningless in this game.

Dunno, I see a heck of a ton of potential game play possibilities with space legs, inside buildings, stations, whatnot, fix things?, caves or such eventually?

 

[Frank]

Here I am, floating in a tin can

The first stage of SpaceLegs isn't going to cause any hassles at all in VR. Floaty woaty movement is fine.

I am hoping that the method FDev use to minimise nausea is VR blinkers. This is because we can then have an option to change the amount our peripheral vision is cut.

 

[CptXabaras]

Nausea is just a matter of getting use to it just as it was for sitting in a chair and playing. Thing is though you'd need a pointer to remind you of where your cockpit chair is again as in RoboRecall but no Telepresence. The game ONWARD (like Arma3) does not induce sickness at all.

In fact bring on no gravity for when the canopy blows!

Have you played Adrift? Good luck with 0G and moving around