Engineers Can this Corvette build handle PvP against the FdL meta?

[Soothsayer]

https://eddp.co/u/3tn2hiP6

Fully engineered, of course. Multicannons would be rapid fire + incendiary, frag cannons would be screening shell + rapid fire (no reload time, which dramatically increases DPS, although I might go for double shot), SCB-defeating railguns, and reinforced shields with 2x thermal resist boosters, 2x resistance augmented boosters, and 2x heavy duty shield boosters. All HRPs would be heavy duty, and my reactive amor would be thermal resistant.

 

[ShinyDewott]

Seems so, the only real threat to you with that setup is an engineered 'conda or cutter.

 

[Chongo]

Put on some MRPs or anyone good with rails will snipe your fsd quickly, and then your plant. That's assuming you don't wake early with shields once you realize it's an exercise in futility, which you have a strong capability to do with that build. You're going to have a lot of trouble hitting a decent fdl pilot with full fixed and short range - even if you reverski they'll probably strafe out of firing line as they keep up with relative ease. Close range setups like that are better for big rig vs. big rig. I'm honestly reassured when I see that a big rig has no gimbs/ turrets since I have room for only 1 chaff and you'd get good dps inbetween cooldowns. A lot of fdls right now run heat heavy weapons, rails and pa's, so they pack in sinks.

Not sure on your shield setup... better to get advice from a big rig pilot on that.

 

[rrobes]

I run HICAP magazines in the 4A MC's, one fixed w/corrosive, one gimballed w/incendiary.

The rest are a combo of pulse lasers and smaller HICAP MC, turreted mostly. It allows 402 pips, no heat and endless fire, at least until the magazines run dry, which takes time as the capacity is usually between 3 to 4k rounds w/ the HICAP mod.

Shields are standard, not BiWeave, w/ reinforced mod.

The internal slots are filled w/ a variety of hull reinforcements, module protection. Only one small capacity slot is filled w/an extra fuel tank. The utility slots are all SB's w/ one PD.

Mods are G5's.

It's unbeatable in PvE in single combat and unless there are more than 3 opponents, same.

PvP, as part of a balanced wing, has been successful as well. My current shields, SCB's and armament are quite effective as support fire and Corvette agility allows self-defense.

Good luck.

 

[UnhappyDev]

I'm feeling cynical so I say it depends if the FDL is running (c)heat cannons.

You might want to factor in pilot skill as well, the corvette isn't an 'I win' ship.

 

[dognosh]

Hey PvP guys, would an FDL with special effects be able to disable his shields, or wharever specials do?

 

[Soothsayer]

Put on some MRPs or anyone good with rails will snipe your fsd quickly, and then your plant. That's assuming you don't wake early with shields once you realize it's an exercise in futility, which you have a strong capability to do with that build. You're going to have a lot of trouble hitting a decent fdl pilot with full fixed and short range - even if you reverski they'll probably strafe out of firing line as they keep up with relative ease. Close range setups like that are better for big rig vs. big rig. I'm honestly reassured when I see that a big rig has no gimbs/ turrets since I have room for only 1 chaff and you'd get good dps inbetween cooldowns. A lot of fdls right now run heat heavy weapons, rails and pa's, so they pack in sinks.

Not sure on your shield setup... better to get advice from a big rig pilot on that.

The thing with gimbals and turrets is that dispersal field, especially combined with chaff, makes them almost useless. They also have significantly less DPS, and with decent aim, it's not that difficult to get a good hit rate with C4 fixed multicannons. Not to mention this video, which showcases fixed multicannons against what appears to be a fairly competent FdL pilot. In Rinzler's Corvette videos, he uses a similar loadout.

However... I'm on the fence about the frag cannons. They're pretty devastating up close, but they quickly lose their effectiveness with any sort of distance. Long range gimballed pulse lasers might be better options there, at least for FdLs and other reasonably maneuverable ships.

 

[Soothsayer]

I run HICAP magazines in the 4A MC's, one fixed w/corrosive, one gimballed w/incendiary.

The rest are a combo of pulse lasers and smaller HICAP MC, turreted mostly. It allows 402 pips, no heat and endless fire, at least until the magazines run dry, which takes time as the capacity is usually between 3 to 4k rounds w/ the HICAP mod.

Shields are standard, not BiWeave, w/ reinforced mod.

The internal slots are filled w/ a variety of hull reinforcements, module protection. Only one small capacity slot is filled w/an extra fuel tank. The utility slots are all SB's w/ one PD.

Mods are G5's.

It's unbeatable in PvE in single combat and unless there are more than 3 opponents, same.

PvP, as part of a balanced wing, has been successful as well. My current shields, SCB's and armament are quite effective as support fire and Corvette agility allows self-defense.

Good luck.

Meh. I'm just starting to realize how meaningless PvE is, though. When other players are more threatening by orders of magnitude than any NPC currently in the game, being able to beat up on those infinitely spawning punching bags doesn't make me feel powerful. With engineers, pretty much any ship can take down any NPC.

So I want to validate my Corvette by putting it through the real test, which is PvP.

 

[Herbrand]

Msg me in game and find out! If you want we can fight until 20% hull.

 

[Chongo]

The thing with gimbals and turrets is that dispersal field, especially combined with chaff, makes them almost useless. They also have significantly less DPS, and with decent aim, it's not that difficult to get a good hit rate with C4 fixed multicannons. Not to mention this video, which showcases fixed multicannons against what appears to be a fairly competent FdL pilot. In Rinzler's Corvette videos, he uses a similar loadout.

However... I'm on the fence about the frag cannons. They're pretty devastating up close, but they quickly lose their effectiveness with any sort of distance. Long range gimballed pulse lasers might be better options there, at least for FdLs and other reasonably maneuverable ships.

Most of rinzler's big rigs sport close range big rig specific loadouts iirc, like full frags. He definitely wouldn't run gimpals, I agree. I mean, if you're running solo in a vette at a CG, it makes you a trophy. So I'd expect full wings pulling you. Let's say you want to be able to handle 2 for a sufficient amount of time, plan on waking otherwise. We'll assume fdl's with 3 pa's and 2 rails. Therm resist biweaves, 53-65 on resists, 600-800 mjs. They're going to sit too far off to ever get frags on them. Frags are absolutely wonderful for big rig vs. big rig but the fdl pilot really has to screw up or just feel like being reckless if he allows you to land them outside a distant partial damage spray. I'd listen to other big rig pilots, or gunship pilots - big rigs go too light on alpha damage imo. If I ran into one heavy on fixed hitscan and some LR rails, or a pa rig.. used well that can give a smaller swarm of fdl's some trouble. Hitscan mixes of rails and pulse/beam can counter the current meta of fast regen low mj biweaves coupled with heavy alpha and heat sinks for the delivery of it. You'll be able to reverse and maintain the hitscan better than fixed mc's, which will stop the biweave regen pretty well even with evasive pilots. At the top end, you're dealing with builds that are alpha heavy. Most of SDC fdl pilots run 3 pa/ 2 rail right now. RNG is a mix of heavy rails and heavy pa builds (4 rail 1mc/ 4 pa 1mc, 4 pa fas etc) the good AA guys are also very rail heavy, also uses a fair bit of hitscan, RSM usually mirrors SDC's builds, same with nomads, former palcon guys are heavy on pa's and rails, former bbfa/gpl guys are still running fixed mc's, they seem to be the only ones. Anyhow, the list goes on but the trend for pvp wings seems to be pa's and rails. Since the engi secondaries are stupid (60% thermal reduction on a rail completely changes everything) the alpha can get pretty intense. I run 4 rails with 45-56% thermal reduction, just LR1's because sulphur is easy and 0 dropoff at 3500 is pretty nice. Anyhow, hope that helps.

 

[znôrt]

Meh. I'm just starting to realize how meaningless PvE is, though.

When other players are more threatening by orders of magnitude than any NPC currently in the game, being able to beat up on those infinitely spawning punching bags doesn't make me feel powerful. With engineers, pretty much any ship can take down any NPC.

wasn't always like that, tbh frontier did try to make npc a bit more challenging but an uproar from the pve crowd ended all that 'nonsense' promptly.

however in general pve and pvp are completely different things: pve is just target practice.

So I want to validate my Corvette by putting it through the real test, which is PvP.

a cutter's uber shields can tank several opponents running out of ammo. dunno if this applies to the corvette too (i have neither) but i doubt it. anyway combat is not only about tanking.

if you want to get a taste of pvp in elite i would suggest not starting out in such an expensive ship. you'll have much to take in. oh and the outfit while very important shouldn't be your first concern either: don't obsess with theory and go for some practical experience first.

if you just want a 'safe' build for doing pve in open and surviving occasional pvp encounters ... well get the biggest shield you can get, and learn how and when to run away. this can be done in any ship pretty easily

 

[Soothsayer]

Most of rinzler's big rigs sport close range big rig specific loadouts iirc, like full frags. He definitely wouldn't run gimpals, I agree. I mean, if you're running solo in a vette at a CG, it makes you a trophy. So I'd expect full wings pulling you. Let's say you want to be able to handle 2 for a sufficient amount of time, plan on waking otherwise. We'll assume fdl's with 3 pa's and 2 rails. Therm resist biweaves, 53-65 on resists, 600-800 mjs. They're going to sit too far off to ever get frags on them. Frags are absolutely wonderful for big rig vs. big rig but the fdl pilot really has to screw up or just feel like being reckless if he allows you to land them outside a distant partial damage spray. I'd listen to other big rig pilots, or gunship pilots - big rigs go too light on alpha damage imo. If I ran into one heavy on fixed hitscan and some LR rails, or a pa rig.. used well that can give a smaller swarm of fdl's some trouble. Hitscan mixes of rails and pulse/beam can counter the current meta of fast regen low mj biweaves coupled with heavy alpha and heat sinks for the delivery of it. You'll be able to reverse and maintain the hitscan better than fixed mc's, which will stop the biweave regen pretty well even with evasive pilots.

The thing about frag cannons is drag munitions, which essentially reduce an enemy ship's maneuverability and speed to a 0-pip level. So that certainly seems useful against smaller, more maneuverable targets. You barely have to graze a target for the effect to occur, in all likelihood. As for an "alpha heavy" build, I was certainly thinking about huge long range plasma accelerators, but misses hurt, and missing happens a lot when using PAs against agile ships at any kind of range. Rapid fire C4 multicannons seem logical because they're a consistent stream-of-fire weapon with great DPS and a solid hit rate, even though they lack the resistance ignore that PAs have.

As for speaking with other pilots of large ships, I'd love to do that to get some advice and input, but I have no idea where to go or who to talk to.

 

[rrobes]

Meh. I'm just starting to realize how meaningless PvE is, though. When other players are more threatening by orders of magnitude than any NPC currently in the game, being able to beat up on those infinitely spawning punching bags doesn't make me feel powerful. With engineers, pretty much any ship can take down any NPC.

So I want to validate my Corvette by putting it through the real test, which is PvP.

I've used my build in PvP and so far has held up as an effective wing support ship. In some friendly trials against 2 ships, it showed resilience as well.

I agree w/ you in:re PvE in a Corvette, I used it to fatten my CR war chest.

Go ahead and try yours in PvP, it's the only way to find out how it will do.

As was said in Lavecon, your invincible ship may not be so invincible against Thargoids.

So to that end, Corvette owners may want to have alternative ships ready to go so you won't be hemorrhaging CR in re-buys until we have a better idea how to combat aliens.

To that end, I have a nifty FDL ready to go that can fight but also run like stink. 8 to 1 loss ratio compared to the Corvette, I like those numbers.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Hey PvP guys, would an FDL with special effects be able to disable his shields, or wharever specials do?

I would counter him as usual with reverbarating cascade mines in a silent running cobra

https://eddp.co/u/C1VvQfGl

Works very well against every sort of shield tanks. Since they use always an overcharged powerplant, it takes only 2 seconds to kill it when having a good firing position. To weak those things.
The Cobra is very small so it's more than difficult to hit her with frags or general fixed weapons. Positioning and straving is all!

 

[Nazdakka]

The thing about frag cannons is drag munitions, which essentially reduce an enemy ship's maneuverability and speed to a 0-pip level. So that certainly seems useful against smaller, more maneuverable targets. You barely have to graze a target for the effect to occur, in all likelihood. As for an "alpha heavy" build, I was certainly thinking about huge long range plasma accelerators, but misses hurt, and missing happens a lot when using PAs against agile ships at any kind of range. Rapid fire C4 multicannons seem logical because they're a consistent stream-of-fire weapon with great DPS and a solid hit rate, even though they lack the resistance ignore that PAs have.

As for speaking with other pilots of large ships, I'd love to do that to get some advice and input, but I have no idea where to go or who to talk to.

I don't really PvP, but why use a long range PA? According to Coriolis, the PA's damage falloff doesn't kick in until 2km, and the shot speed is slow enough that hitting the target from above that distance isn't going to happen very often.

 

[StiTch]

Protect your modules with preferably at least one MRP and an AFMU. The AFMU, in times of need, is a steadfast ally.

The scanners would also preferably go.

Weapon wise...I think you're best taking on a few FDLs in PvP, perhaps in smaller ships, to get an idea of what hitting them is like. Not to say a 'vette pilot can't do it with that setup (and nice to see someone not crutching on fill gimballed MC setups or whatever) but the frags will be seldom useful and if you can't sustain DPS on a FDL...it'll mince you without pressure.

 

[StiTch]

I don't really PvP, but why use a long range PA? According to Coriolis, the PA's damage falloff doesn't kick in until 2km, and the shot speed is slow enough that hitting the target from above that distance isn't going to happen very often.

Long range increases projectile speed, partially mitigating the whole issue with it being difficult to hit at longer ranges.

It actually did less for PAs than I thought it would though.

 

[Herbrand]

I would counter him as usual with reverbarating cascade mines in a silent running cobra

https://eddp.co/u/C1VvQfGl

Works very well against every sort of shield tanks. Since they use always an overcharged powerplant, it takes only 2 seconds to kill it when having a good firing position. To weak those things.
The Cobra is very small so it's more than difficult to hit her with frags or general fixed weapons. Positioning and straving is all!

Laying mines doesn't interact with Silent Running (e.g. making you "visible") like firing a weapon does?

 

[Herbrand]

Protect your modules with preferably at least one MRP and an AFMU. The AFMU, in times of need, is a steadfast ally.

The scanners would also preferably go.

Weapon wise...I think you're best taking on a few FDLs in PvP, perhaps in smaller ships, to get an idea of what hitting them is like. Not to say a 'vette pilot can't do it with that setup (and nice to see someone not crutching on fill gimballed MC setups or whatever) but the frags will be seldom useful and if you can't sustain DPS on a FDL...it'll mince you without pressure.

Well said. I fought a Cutter in my FdL and with 0-4-2 pips I could dodge 80-90% of Gimballed Multicannon shots while corkscrewing at a safe distance - if you can't maneuver effectively, you need gimballed hitscan weapons against fast targets.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Laying mines doesn't interact with Silent Running (e.g. making you "visible") like firing a weapon does?

It makes me visible for eyeballing, but still hard to get a target lock on me. So gimbaleds are nearly unusable and for fixed projectiles they get no reticle for distance shot. The cobra is also very very flat and can be hit only very hard.
The overall combination of this makes she very sustainable against large ships. She is very fast and can fly in front of the opponent and drop the mines as same as reverski and dropping the mines. Straving is very important! (But only upwards to avoid eating the own mines )
The small hardpoints on the Cobra have a great distance to each other which makes them great to drop the mines over a large area. In combination with the speed and the rapid fire mod, an opponent will have real problems avoiding these. And compared to torpedos, the mines have plenty of ammo so i can waste them as much as i need to do.

This build is of course made to counter the big 3 as shield tanks and works here superior. But if the opponent realise his disadvantage fast enough and decide to leave the conflict soon enough, i won't be able to stop him.
All what counts here is the surprise and the speed. Once the opponent has taken the mines, the overcharge powerplant has to be taken down in lesser than 5 seconds, otherwise he low-wakes and battle is over.