Cap per CMDR per day?
- Thread starter pargyrak
- Start date
Kind of.
The maximum swing in an untrafficked system is determined by the same calculation that assigns CC value in Powerplay.
It's possible to hit that cap for our hypothetical untrafficked system in six or seven transactions.
The maximum swing in an untrafficked system is determined by the same calculation that assigns CC value in Powerplay.
It's possible to hit that cap for our hypothetical untrafficked system in six or seven transactions.
You have me ever so slightly intrigued by that statement.
Could you explain further?
The swing that can be achieved in a "perfect" untrafficked system is derived from the same calculation that determines the PPCC value. Basically, it's the population of the system that counts, but with cutoffs. It's why every tiny population system gives you the same percentage swing.
The max swing is roughly 10- (FLOOR (LOG(10) Popultaion)) * 5
Most populations range between the single billions (log = 9) and the single thousands (log = 3). So for the highest population systems, the faction swing can be about (10-9) * 5 = 5% a day. For the lowest population systems it can be (10-3) * 5 = 35% per day. The function to reach the cap is also logarithmic or asymptotic, meaning that the amount of work you need to do to get a larger swing grows the closer you get to the max. So you might be able to get 50% of the max with only a little effort, but getting 99% of the max would take a much MUCH larger amount of work.
Some activities are not capped, AFAIK. Whether by design or by bug, activities which reduce influence, such as murder, smuggling and trading at a loss have not been capped in the past. A few patches ago, the negative influence for trading at a loss was removed, but undesired bizzaro BGS effects have come back from time to time between minor patches. I can't say authoritatively what activities are still uncapped, but I think at the moment it is only murder and smuggling.
Most populations range between the single billions (log = 9) and the single thousands (log = 3). So for the highest population systems, the faction swing can be about (10-9) * 5 = 5% a day. For the lowest population systems it can be (10-3) * 5 = 35% per day. The function to reach the cap is also logarithmic or asymptotic, meaning that the amount of work you need to do to get a larger swing grows the closer you get to the max. So you might be able to get 50% of the max with only a little effort, but getting 99% of the max would take a much MUCH larger amount of work.
Some activities are not capped, AFAIK. Whether by design or by bug, activities which reduce influence, such as murder, smuggling and trading at a loss have not been capped in the past. A few patches ago, the negative influence for trading at a loss was removed, but undesired bizzaro BGS effects have come back from time to time between minor patches. I can't say authoritatively what activities are still uncapped, but I think at the moment it is only murder and smuggling.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
As far as we can tell there is no cap per commander but there ieffectively cap per system related to population - it takes the same amount of effort to reach that cap, what varies is the swing achievable.
I always heard that a faction could increase max 20% by tick, whatever the system. Based on wgat is wrote above, it is not true. It is based on the system population size. In the example above, even if i put 100 cmdrs on a log 9, it would not move more than 3% ?
My question is not innocent as it could help to optimize cmdr affectation. For instance, in a low population of 2000 people, we could imagine that after 5 back and forth, it is done for the day. We can move to the other sustem.
My question is not innocent as it could help to optimize cmdr affectation. For instance, in a low population of 2000 people, we could imagine that after 5 back and forth, it is done for the day. We can move to the other sustem.
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^^^^
This matches our experience. There are probably too many variables to retro-engineer a precise formula (maths is not my strong point though). Population, influence levels, relative influence levels
As general rules: The bigger the population the more effort is required and the higher the influence level the more effort is required.
A single CMDR (or even a small team) in a high pop system just cant do enough in a day to make huge swings.
I've certainly seen larger swings than that. Picking a recent example:
Colonia, 7 Oct: Jaques 5.7, CCouncil 94.3
Colonia, 8 Oct: Jaques 30.9, CCouncil 69.1
Looking back further, the biggest single-day swing I've seen is probably
Colonia, 8 April: Jaques 45.6, CCouncil 54.4
Colonia, 9 April: Jaques 1, CCouncil 99
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
We have a calculator and its pretty good (but still not perfect)- relative influence is a major factor of more than one faction is moved.
This is why I think there is some kind of screwy points system behind the scenes in that black box of the BGS.
They always pointed at a point counter for BGS effects that caused +5 of -2 in the past, so I never thought it was hard to believe the percentages that were shown was nothing more than the daily average of how the points lined up at the end of the day.
Something that could cause both a diminishing returns in how the points added up and allow for creative work to cause unbelievable swings if done right.
One of these days I gotta sit down and hammer out my thought clearer on it.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Put simplisticly it seems to work like this
If a faction has a bgs activities then if the combined effect of the positive and negative events for that faction is greater than or equal to the equivalent of 10 + missions then that faction gets the value of the cap (c14 points for a few million pop system 21 for a small one etc) That raw cap value is added to the starting influence and it is then renormalised, any below 1% rounded up to 1 and the total back to 100. This is why there is a smaller % increase after normalisation when the starting influence is high, though the raw numbers added for hitting the cap are same. If only one faction is moved then the cap is reached very early and extra effort has no benefit.
When multiple factions are moving it gets more complex - our rule of thumb is that its takes approx the ratio of the differences in starting influence to achieve the same rise. ie to compete against a faction with a 10 point tick starting a 10% you would need to put in 6 times as many BPS "points" to a 60% starting influence faction. In that case they would both gain by a little less than half the cap.
If a faction has a bgs activities then if the combined effect of the positive and negative events for that faction is greater than or equal to the equivalent of 10 + missions then that faction gets the value of the cap (c14 points for a few million pop system 21 for a small one etc) That raw cap value is added to the starting influence and it is then renormalised, any below 1% rounded up to 1 and the total back to 100. This is why there is a smaller % increase after normalisation when the starting influence is high, though the raw numbers added for hitting the cap are same. If only one faction is moved then the cap is reached very early and extra effort has no benefit.
When multiple factions are moving it gets more complex - our rule of thumb is that its takes approx the ratio of the differences in starting influence to achieve the same rise. ie to compete against a faction with a 10 point tick starting a 10% you would need to put in 6 times as many BPS "points" to a 60% starting influence faction. In that case they would both gain by a little less than half the cap.
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I know, right? I started wearing a ruff and smoking impossibly thin French cigarettes after playing the BGS.
Pretty much, yes. You do your milk runs, then kick back and play PUBG. Because frunstration is why we do it .
