Cargo and trade

[OnePercent]

Can we please get some sort of cargo compression module or a special type of module that can only hold vast quantities of certain goods?

Because if you do frontier, You will basically make 99% of the entire market interesting...

seriously, trading as we know it is just precious metals and consumer tech. Why can't we do massive bulk trading in High supply and high volume goods such as algae, fruit and vegetable, grain and other high supply and high volume products? NO ONE TRADES THESE, why? because we can only transport a maximum of 500 in a fully kitted for trade type 9

this makes the economy unrealistic, immersion breaking, totally broken and nonsense.

does humanity in the year 3301 eat palladium? does the whole industrialized society only use gold? do they build their homes with solid silver?

make the economy based on what is actually NEEEDED, because the current economy is just borked.

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

technically the NPCs are the main suppliers of food and low profit goods

and while it might be nice to have these special modules for only certain goods it still wouldn't fix the problem all it would do is shift the weight onto the other foot, so-to-speak. You'll then simply only be trading on these compressed goods (if number wise they are more profitable).

 

[OnePercent]

technically the NPCs are the main suppliers of food and low profit goods

and while it might be nice to have these special modules for only certain goods it still wouldn't fix the problem all it would do is shift the weight onto the other foot, so-to-speak. You'll then simply only be trading on these compressed goods (if number wise they are more profitable).

You can make it competitive, by having a sort of oscillation between CMDR's trading low tier High volume goods vs High tier low volume goods, by this i mean community goals, Famines, Droughts, Rebellions, Wars you know, how FD intended the game to be.

And FD can control it indirectly by pulling the strings on these events, to make it balanced between the two trades.

Also, the answer shouldn't be Not solving the problem imo.

 

[Vingtetun]

Supply and demand are the problem.

Far too much gold out there for that price. The amount that is traded, the price should plummet.

Demand for things like spaceship parts should go up in stations that do a lot of repairs.

Didn't we have it such that prices dropped dramatically when ovee traded for a while but there were loads of tears over regular trading routes being 'nerfed'.

 

[OnePercent]

Kind-of. Look at the amounts though. One can assume foodstuffs are mostly traded by company-owned superships in megaton quantities. But you're not going to send out a capital-ship sized freighter to pick up the 1500 tons of Palladium that a small mining outpost generates. No, that's what T9's are for. So the profits are not being cut into by super-freighters, and player ships can collect them, same as company-owned T9's can.

Also you can expect the Panther Clipper... not sure when, but I think they were definitely intending to implement it.

So in that context, the economy makes sense. Bulk goods deliver only a small to medium profit because of competition with large ships, which have better economies-of-scale, while high value-per-mass goods do not have that competition, leaving their full profit available for vessels in the 1-2 k-ton range.

So, people won't starve because small ships avoid hauling food. Also, since bulk goods do deliver SOME profit to players who are in-transit and have no better cargoes available at the time, the economy is not broken.

so tell me..where are these said super freighters?

I don't think an invisible being is a good convincing point against the argument of if the economy is broken or not.

 

[askavir]

Can we please get some sort of cargo compression module or a special type of module that can only hold vast quantities of certain goods?

Because if you do frontier, You will basically make 99% of the entire market interesting...

seriously, trading as we know it is just precious metals and consumer tech. Why can't we do massive bulk trading in High supply and high volume goods such as algae, fruit and vegetable, grain and other high supply and high volume products? NO ONE TRADES THESE, why? because we can only transport a maximum of 500 in a fully kitted for trade type 9

this makes the economy unrealistic, immersion breaking, totally broken and nonsense.

does humanity in the year 3301 eat palladium? does the whole industrialized society only use gold? do they build their homes with solid silver?

make the economy based on what is actually NEEEDED, because the current economy is just borked.

How is that unrealistic or immersion braking, or broken or nonsense?

Bread and vegetables are also more important and needed than gold today, yet you can buy truckloads of bread and vegetables for the price of a single bit of gold.

What defines prices is supply vs demand. Always was, always will be. The harder / costlier / rarer it is to produce / find goods, the more expensive they are.

Now, the amounts of available goods, that I can agree that gold or palladium having the same availability than vegetables or beer etc doesn't make much sense.

 

[OnePercent]

You are all misunderstanding me, I never said "pls make these items more profitable to trade"

I said LET US HAUL MORE!!!

and by that, i mean Make some modules to be able to compress cargo, so we can fit like 10 thousand tons within 500 tons etc and you can balance it by only allowing certain goods that are "compatible" with this module.. LOL!

 

[Calaban]

I remember in beta Aulin had a "primogenitor cell" market crash, as a news event.

Because it was the only good being traded out of that system. and the Dev's saw the data, and engineered the "crash". *poof* "due to quality control issues, primgenitor cells are off the market".. and players had to find other, less easy, profit margins.

Buuut now we have the full game. Such attention to detail went "The Way of the Beta". (along with plans for scanning down new jump destinations as an exploration feature)

 

[OnePercent]

Truckloads, yes... but do you know how much gold goes into building that truck? The answer would probably surprise us both. I know there's a little bit in the computer circuits, but I have no idea what else they might make from it. And who knows how much gold the people of 3301 need to build a T9? One thing gold is excellent for is radiation shielding. In fact, it's better than lead, and non-toxic in the event of accidents, to boot, and any spaceship is going to need radiation shielding. Not to mention whatever place it might have in the exotic alloys they'll be using by then.

Or you could just use readily available and cheap Thorium, which is 3 times more abundant in the earths crust and would be a better radiation shield than gold.

Using gold for radiation shielding is a waste, you might as well burn platinum for energy.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

You're kidding me... right?

People calling for buffs for trading?!

*Points gun down throat*

 

[OnePercent]

You're kidding me... right?

People calling for buffs for trading?!

*Points gun down throat*

buffs? how is this a "pls buff trading thread"

this isn't a "pls buff trading thread"

this is a Pls make trading real thread.

 

[askavir]

Truckloads, yes... but do you know how much gold goes into building that truck? The answer would probably surprise us both. I know there's a little bit in the computer circuits, but I have no idea what else they might make from it. And who knows how much gold the people of 3301 need to build a T9? One thing gold is excellent for is radiation shielding. In fact, it's better than lead, and non-toxic in the event of accidents, to boot, and any spaceship is going to need radiation shielding. Not to mention whatever place it might have in the exotic alloys they'll be using by then.

True, but that's one of the reasons why a truck also costs way more than its own load of bread or vegetables

Although, there aren't as many trucks as bread of vegetables.

 

[OnePercent]

Elite2: The Threat?

No, that's too much of a fantasy tech. If you ask ME we should have player-owned superfreighters. More like X4. But the FD already said they were absolutely not doing that. So... How about NPC superfreighters that we can INVEST in for a share of the profits as they trade...?

- - - Updated - - -



I didn't know that about Thorium. That's interesting, I'll remember that. Tungsten, too; I'm not sure how much radiation it stops but it's also denser than gold. Also tougher, AND more heat-resistant, so it could actually be used in ways that would contribute somewhat to the structure, rather than being pure dead weight.

yep and while you're at it, do some research on nuclear power using thorium rather than uranium ^^

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

You are all misunderstanding me, I never said "pls make these items more profitable to trade"

I said LET US HAUL MORE!!!

and by that, i mean Make some modules to be able to compress cargo, so we can fit like 10 thousand tons within 500 tons etc and you can balance it by only allowing certain goods that are "compatible" with this module.. LOL!

at the end of the day its still going to be the same thing.

Is it more profitable to trade 500tons of palladium or is it more profitable to trade 10k tons of algae.

Supply and demand aught to have a more drastic impact but as it stands right now trading is fine as it is. Its boring but inarguably the most profitable thing you can do.
Hell today I made 50m in about 10-11 hours tell me how much a pirate, a smuggler, or an explorer can make in a similar amount of time?

 

[GluttonyFang]

buffs? how is this a "pls buff trading thread"

this isn't a "pls buff trading thread"

this is a Pls make trading real thread.

Believe it or not the direct effect of what you're proposing is a drastic increase in trading profit, which is something we don't need with the already severely broken profession imbalance.

Unless you are telling me you're willing to accept the prices of all commodities traded to be reduced to match the current profit gained from trading after increasing in purchasable quantity of said commodities.

If that is the case, then go ahead.

However if that is not the case, I assert my stand.

 

[OnePercent]

Believe it or not the direct effect of what you're proposing is a drastic increase in trading profit, which is something we don't need with the already severely broken profession imbalance.

Unless you are telling me you're willing to accept the prices of all commodities traded to be reduced to match the current profit gained from trading after increasing in purchasable quantity of said commodities.

If that is the case, then go ahead.

However if that is not the case, I assert my stand.

so you don't believe that trade is what drives pirates to pirate traders and then traders ask bounty hunters to hunt pirates? you know, it takes a rich person to make a poor person, the difference between the two is what drives emergent and interesting gameplay. If you want everyone to be the same then so be it, but then there will be no game

 

[OnePercent]

What you say is absolutely true, however I fail to see how it affects the argument you were having with him at all?

if he doesn't understand this concept than you are 100% correct.

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

Um, I know that the occasional plum route pops up, and some people have a nose for them, but other than that, trading really IS a flop. I freely admit that I suck at it, I'm a combat pilot, but even I should not wind up selling at a loss as often as I do when I do go on a trade binge. Smuggling is also kinda mucked up. I suck at that too, does it count as smuggling when I wander around Fed space with an Anaconda packed to the gills with Narcotics and forget that they're illegal...?

No way I'm paying these fines. I am going to love seeing my bounties when they tick over.

There are multiple tools to use. There is no reason you should be making a loss.

http://www.elitetradingtool.co.uk/ -- probably one of the more flexible tools.

http://etn.io/ -- not a big fan of it but its nice if you want something "relatively" local and are judging it by profit in x amount of time

http://eddb.io/ -- probabl one of the most popular and easiest tools. Hell if you dont mind the mindless A --> B --> A,etc. trading they have highly profitable routes. http://eddb.io/trade/loops (of course if you are looking for more than 3k profit in a trip you will need to use another search method since its locked to a max distance of 30ly)

 

[medwyn]

As there's no real demand or need in ED's economy, all the titles are just meaningless words.
It may display "algae" or "gold" or "resonating separators" assigned to a number we consider price, technically it's X and Y and Z and has nothing to do with any values or needs.
So nobody is starving nor need precious metals, it's just called like that.

ED really needs persistency.
Trading is as shallow as the contiuously spawning NPCs for bounty hunters.

 

[OnePercent]

In any case, this shouldn't increase profits much because as i stated from the start, only certain low tier high volume goods would be allowed to balance between the precious metals and the worthless mountains, these would be complimented by a sort of galactic trade powerplay between the two as CMDR's around the verse oscillate between the two trading scenes.