Cargo Canister - Different Capacities!

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Hey everybody, I think this is a pretty great idea and not a single person replied to my last thread, so here it goes.

I think cargo canisters holding all of the same commodity should be stacked into the holds, so it's four canisters per hold. This means that each cargo canister is the 0.25% the size of the cargo rack it's stowed in, meaning a 4t rack would have four 1t canisters, an 8t rack would have 4 2t canisters, and so on, all the way up to the T9's mighty 256t rack. This change would obviously mean that the canisters would have to spill out of the cargo hatch much more slowly than before, and would make targeting large cargo ships much more worthwhile, and lucrative. You would need to pick your ship of choice when assaulting a trader, or have a wing with one member in a cargo ship ready to pick up the goods. Also, a canister obviously cannot be divided between two racks unless we saw them in half ( ), so even if a Cobra, for example, had two 16 ton racks, he could not carry a 32t cargo canister.

The only way for a trader to get around this is to trade multiple commodities, which would obviously cut down on their profits. I think this will be a great change for piracy, prevent those clumsy ASP accidents with 40t of goods floating around, and scale piracy just as bounty hunting and trading scales.

Thanks for reading, CMDR Ralof.

 

[Defacto]

Would that really make sense, though? Why would there not be a standardized canister size? And how would this work with the cargo scoop system, when all cargo scoops only are made to scoop the one-tonne canisters?
It also sounds pretty messy and a bit too complex, maybe.
If the traders would have to trade multiple commodities which would cut down on their profits, why would this system exist?

I think there's better ways to rework the profits from piracy.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

If the traders would have to trade multiple commodities which would cut down on their profits, why would this system exist?

So that they have to trade with these large canisters. There is obviously no benefit to traders here, but there shouldn't be. Trading is already way over Piracy.

And how would this work with the cargo scoop system, when all cargo scoops only are made to scoop the one-tonne canisters?

I don't know about that, but maybe the canisters would be elongated? You're right about the largest ones though, I can't think of anything for those.

 

[Defacto]

So that they have to trade with these large canisters. There is obviously no benefit to traders here, but there shouldn't be. Trading is already way over Piracy.



I don't know about that, but maybe the canisters would be elongated? You're right about the largest ones though, I can't think of anything for those.

But why would they want that? What's the point of a system that just is supposed to make things harder, less profitable, and more complicated?

If the problem is that trading is a lot easier and faster than piracy (here I agree: trading is not only a lot safer and easier than piracy, it is also a lot more profitable), then I think that a much simpler and more effective solution is this: Scale all the commodity prices upwards. Keep Biowaste prices the same, double grain prices, triple clothing prices, quadruple titanium prices, etc. Keep the Cr/tonne profit roughly the same.

This would make piracy a lot more profitable, and it would also mean that traders who trade only in the really expensive goods run the risk of loosing a lot more if they get pirated or destroyed.

However, I don't think this feature can just get amputated onto the current game. There needs to be a few changes that follow with this:

- Bounties need to be serious, murder and assault bounties need to be higher, and give people the option to ''add on'' to existing bounties by paying an extra fee (the Pilot's Federation bounties from the DDF)
- It should not be possible to clear large bounties by paying Credits. At a certain level, the faction issuing the bounty should just refuse to accept the clearing fee (you are basically bribing the Pilot's Federation in order for them to bribe the issuing faction to forget you), and instead you will have to do something else to redeem yourself.
- Even with the increased income from piracy, it should not be possible to make profit by pirating and clearing your bounties. The bounties accrued from doing criminal acts (that are discovered) should always be larger than the income earned from them. Right now, we are in a situation where you do something criminal, earn money, and then use a bit of that money to pay off your bounty. That is pretty ridicilous.
- If you get killed in such a way that someone recieves a bounty voucher from you, you should have to pay that money from your own pocket. Where else would the money come from?
- If you get a bounty on your head while playing in Open, you can't switch to solo. (this was in the DDF)

- System security. It needs to be competent. Doing acts of piracy in a system like Sol should be the stuff of legends! Anyone with a bounty there should constantly be harassed and hunted down by wings and wings of expert anti-piracy naval squads. Response times in high security systems should also be a lot faster.
- Smuggling should be hard, not the cakewalk it is now. Doing things like running away from a scan should at the very least attract suspicion, if not an outright response from the authorithy ship.
- There should be more reasons to trade in low security systems. In places like Sol, you're competing with the large Trading Corporations and the massive bulk haulers. Profit margins should be thin. In places where the traders have trouble getting to the station because of piracy and criminality, the prices should be a lot better.

- Trading needs to be more complex and deeper. Bring back the niche economies, bring back the prosperity levels dictating the demands for various types of goods. I don't think I've ever traded on a trade route longer than two or three jumps. There's pretty much zero thinking once you understand the system.

- NPC's need to be a real threat. Both pirates, bounty hunters and security should be as though and competent as it is possible to make them without resorting to cheating. I think there's been a great development in this area in the latest updates and I hope it continues.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

But why would they want that? What's the point of a system that just is supposed to make things harder, less profitable, and more complicated?

If the problem is that trading is a lot easier and faster than piracy (here I agree: trading is not only a lot safer and easier than piracy, it is also a lot more profitable), then I think that a much simpler and more effective solution is this: Scale all the commodity prices upwards. Keep Biowaste prices the same, double grain prices, triple clothing prices, quadruple titanium prices, etc. Keep the Cr/tonne profit roughly the same.

This would make piracy a lot more profitable, and it would also mean that traders who trade only in the really expensive goods run the risk of loosing a lot more if they get pirated or destroyed.

However, I don't think this feature can just get amputated onto the current game. There needs to be a few changes that follow with this:

- Bounties need to be serious, murder and assault bounties need to be higher, and give people the option to ''add on'' to existing bounties by paying an extra fee (the Pilot's Federation bounties from the DDF)
- It should not be possible to clear large bounties by paying Credits. At a certain level, the faction issuing the bounty should just refuse to accept the clearing fee (you are basically bribing the Pilot's Federation in order for them to bribe the issuing faction to forget you), and instead you will have to do something else to redeem yourself.
- Even with the increased income from piracy, it should not be possible to make profit by pirating and clearing your bounties. The bounties accrued from doing criminal acts (that are discovered) should always be larger than the income earned from them. Right now, we are in a situation where you do something criminal, earn money, and then use a bit of that money to pay off your bounty. That is pretty ridicilous.
- If you get killed in such a way that someone recieves a bounty voucher from you, you should have to pay that money from your own pocket. Where else would the money come from?
- If you get a bounty on your head while playing in Open, you can't switch to solo. (this was in the DDF)

- System security. It needs to be competent. Doing acts of piracy in a system like Sol should be the stuff of legends! Anyone with a bounty there should constantly be harassed and hunted down by wings and wings of expert anti-piracy naval squads. Response times in high security systems should also be a lot faster.
- Smuggling should be hard, not the cakewalk it is now. Doing things like running away from a scan should at the very least attract suspicion, if not an outright response from the authorithy ship.
- There should be more reasons to trade in low security systems. In places like Sol, you're competing with the large Trading Corporations and the massive bulk haulers. Profit margins should be thin. In places where the traders have trouble getting to the station because of piracy and criminality, the prices should be a lot better.

- Trading needs to be more complex and deeper. Bring back the niche economies, bring back the prosperity levels dictating the demands for various types of goods. I don't think I've ever traded on a trade route longer than two or three jumps. There's pretty much zero thinking once you understand the system.

- NPC's need to be a real threat. Both pirates, bounty hunters and security should be as though and competent as it is possible to make them without resorting to cheating. I think there's been a great development in this area in the latest updates and I hope it continues.

You're right about a lot of this, but making commodities more expensive isn't perfect. Another problem is the scooping of dozens of these canisters. It's absolutely horrible, especially how the canisters come out in clumps. Also, wouldn't buffing prices make getting into trading a whole lot harder?

 

[Defacto]

You're right about a lot of this, but making commodities more expensive isn't perfect. Another problem is the scooping of dozens of these canisters. It's absolutely horrible, especially how the canisters come out in clumps. Also, wouldn't buffing prices make getting into trading a whole lot harder?

Large-scale commodity trading: Possibly. The thing is, I don't think this is how you would be ''getting into'' trading. I think there should be more possibilities to do courier and light cargo runs: Hopefully, this comes with 1.3, since we have been told that FD are reworking the missions. Also: The most drastic price changes would be for expensive goods.

I don't think scooping is that much of a problem. Maybe, the canisters could have small microfusion thrusters that would stabilize them according to the frame of reference (what I am trying to say here is: They would stop and stand still shortly after you ejected them). This would make scooping a bit easier.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Large-scale commodity trading: Possibly. The thing is, I don't think this is how you would be ''getting into'' trading. I think there should be more possibilities to do courier and light cargo runs: Hopefully, this comes with 1.3, since we have been told that FD are reworking the missions. Also: The most drastic price changes would be for expensive goods.

I don't think scooping is that much of a problem. Maybe, the canisters could have small microfusion thrusters that would stabilize them according to the frame of reference (what I am trying to say here is: They would stop and stand still shortly after you ejected them). This would make scooping a bit easier.

Yeah. Also, with the microfusion thrusters, I understood it, no need to dumb it down