Cargo handling feature requests

[Maur]

Having travelled on a large seagoing ship to places where it could not tie up at a wharf, I have one thing to say about stations without Large landing pads;

Lighters.

These are small ships that carry cargo from a ship too big to berth at the available docks to the aforementioned docks. Lighters may be assigned to the docks, or may be a part of the large ship's complement of boats.

Lighters have been a part of the mechanics of moving cargo by sea for hundreds of years, so it boggles my imagination that stations without Large landing pads do not have space anchorages and lighters to assist with cargo handling for large ships without their own lighter(s) - for a fee, of course.

So, a lighter should be an additional option for ships that can be placed in a fighter bay. Should a large ship not have a lighter, or a smaller ship not be able to be accommodated in the available berths, passengers and cargo could still be loaded and unloaded by lighters travelling between the station and the ship in its space berth.

Lighters should be able to carry perhaps 5-10 tons of cargo, or 15-30 passengers. Obviously, they would not be as fast as the automated cargo handlers in proper landing pads.

Lastly, ships in space berths would be able to be repaired, but not refitted.

Another advantage of having an onboard lighter would be fast, easy, reasonably secure transshipment of cargo in space between two ships without needing a station or scooping/limpeting jettisoned canisters. Entire missions could be based on this...

This shouldn't be too onerous for FD to program. I could do it myself if I had access to the source code.

Secondly... Storage for cargo.

We get free storage for shipboard modules, but there is no storage for cargo, free or paid? Ridiculous. Cargo should be able to be stored aboard a station for a fee of a certain amount of credits per ton per time. Perhaps pre-paid or perhaps billed, and if the fees are not paid for a sufficient time, the cargo could be sold off as anonymous job lots to the highest bidder.

Again, easy to implement for FD.

Then we have DIY storage. This could take the form of a special, cheap item of cargo that is purchased, then the owner can go somewhere - preferably out of the way - and drop off the container, expand it like a balloon, and fill it with up to, say, 20-100 tons of cargo. The container would just sit in normal space, emitting no signals until pinged with the correct transponder code. It would be black, and reasonably stealthy, unlikely to be found unless someone sees its owner drop it off or visit it.

Of course, if the location in which it is dropped is not so out of the way, there is a chance that someone else may find it. Also, if the owner's ship is destroyed, others may be able to glean the location by analyzing the debris... if they're lucky.

Then there is a variation of this space-pod: the trapped space pod. This item is the same size as its much cheaper brother, but holds half the cargo. However, if some unauthorised person docks with it... BOOM! Time to get your rebuy, pirate... Of course, the cargo inside stands a good chance of being destroyed too... The original owner could sell its location, its transponder code, and its contact security key.

Great for dead-drops in space out of sight of the authorities...or for getting rid of unwary rivals.

 

[GlitchedVision0101]

Having travelled on a large seagoing ship to places where it could not tie up at a wharf, I have one thing to say about stations without Large landing pads;

Lighters.

These are small ships that carry cargo from a ship too big to berth at the available docks to the aforementioned docks. Lighters may be assigned to the docks, or may be a part of the large ship's complement of boats.

Lighters have been a part of the mechanics of moving cargo by sea for hundreds of years, so it boggles my imagination that stations without Large landing pads do not have space anchorages and lighters to assist with cargo handling for large ships without their own lighter(s) - for a fee, of course.

So, a lighter should be an additional option for ships that can be placed in a fighter bay. Should a large ship not have a lighter, or a smaller ship not be able to be accommodated in the available berths, passengers and cargo could still be loaded and unloaded by lighters travelling between the station and the ship in its space berth.

Lighters should be able to carry perhaps 5-10 tons of cargo, or 15-30 passengers. Obviously, they would not be as fast as the automated cargo handlers in proper landing pads.

Lastly, ships in space berths would be able to be repaired, but not refitted.

Another advantage of having an onboard lighter would be fast, easy, reasonably secure transshipment of cargo in space between two ships without needing a station or scooping/limpeting jettisoned canisters. Entire missions could be based on this...

This shouldn't be too onerous for FD to program. I could do it myself if I had access to the source code.

Secondly... Storage for cargo.

We get free storage for shipboard modules, but there is no storage for cargo, free or paid? Ridiculous. Cargo should be able to be stored aboard a station for a fee of a certain amount of credits per ton per time. Perhaps pre-paid or perhaps billed, and if the fees are not paid for a sufficient time, the cargo could be sold off as anonymous job lots to the highest bidder.

Again, easy to implement for FD.

Then we have DIY storage. This could take the form of a special, cheap item of cargo that is purchased, then the owner can go somewhere - preferably out of the way - and drop off the container, expand it like a balloon, and fill it with up to, say, 20-100 tons of cargo. The container would just sit in normal space, emitting no signals until pinged with the correct transponder code. It would be black, and reasonably stealthy, unlikely to be found unless someone sees its owner drop it off or visit it.

Of course, if the location in which it is dropped is not so out of the way, there is a chance that someone else may find it. Also, if the owner's ship is destroyed, others may be able to glean the location by analyzing the debris... if they're lucky.

Then there is a variation of this space-pod: the trapped space pod. This item is the same size as its much cheaper brother, but holds half the cargo. However, if some unauthorised person docks with it... BOOM! Time to get your rebuy, pirate... Of course, the cargo inside stands a good chance of being destroyed too... The original owner could sell its location, its transponder code, and its contact security key.

Great for dead-drops in space out of sight of the authorities...or for getting rid of unwary rivals.

very interesting ideas, as for cargo storage, many have already brought up, storing personal cargo could have effects on the BGS. while I think these could both be awesome additions to gameplay, they're not likely to happen.

 

[Maur]

The trouble is that the historical existence of lighters makes the existence of outposts at which only small or medium ships can trade completely unbelievable.

I understand that FDev may have wanted to encourage the use of small and medium ships and by denying large ships a place to dock at these outposts, this is achieved in-game very simply.

However, humans being what we are, would consider this to be a challenge to be overcome, and not a limitation to be accepted without question. So, the fact that lighters exist to assist seagoing trade between small/shallow ports and large ships makes the limitation in the Elite universe unbelievable.

The game environment - where the ships belonging to player CMDRs vanish when their player logs out - obviously supports docks where such ships can be "put into storage", thus not breaking immersion, and space anchorages would not be immediately compatible with this mechanic.

However, immersion and a semblance of realism could be restored, as well as continuing to discourage the use of only large ships, with the following measures:

• Establish the potential existence of space docks for ships too large to use the available on-station docks.
• Institute space-dock docking fees for large ships based upon their tonnage, payable per hour or part thereof, in advance. Failure to pay results in the ship being automatically undocked and subject to loitering penalties. Permission to dock is denied if not accompanied by the first hour's docking fee.
• Supplies, cargo and passengers must be lightered to the ship, taking several minutes each trip. The ship can not undock from the anchorage until all transfers are complete, unless the station, lighter or ship comes under direct attack.
• Lighter fees are based upon a percentage of the value of the cargo transshipped, say 1%, or a fixed fee per passenger or crew member based upon their class/elite rating.
• Ships in a space anchorage are not stored out of sight, and may be scanned at will, and even attacked if the attacker is willing to deal with the station defences.
• If a CMDR logs out while docked at an anchoage, if any other players are present, the docked ship undocks, heads for the mass limit, and low-wakes away without a trackable signature. To the CMDR who logged out, when they log back in, they are in a safe position in normal space 1-3 ls from the station and any other object.
• Ships in a space anchorage may be repaired or refuelled by limpet - at a premium cost and additional time - but may not be refitted.
• Lighters and repair/ refueling limpets may not be available at all space anchorages.
• Where station-owned lighters are available, shipboard lighters may not be used to transship to or from the station. Station owners don't want to let their profits be reduced.
• Space anchorages may not be available at all outposts.
• To make this all more believable, stations at which only small ships may dock, and all others must use a space anchorage should be established.

 

[Maur]

Additional thoughts...:

• The lighter fees may vary according to economic state: increased in a boom, reduced or waived in a depression, and may vary according to the nature of the cargo, e.g. medical supplies lightered free in an outbreak, weapons lightered free during a war, etcetera.
• The supply of station lighters may be limited; where supply is exceeded by demand, the transshipment fees would be increased for every job in the queue before the current request. This could conceivably equal or exceed the total value of the cargo, and could easily equal or exceed any profit that might otherwise be gained. Such reservation fees would be paid in advance.
• Lighter fees for missions posted by or benefiting the controlling faction would be waived, but not for non-controlling/beneficiary factions. Where a station changes its controlling faction during a source and return mission, the new owners would of course charge lighter fees even though when the mission was accepted, it had been posted by the controlling faction. Alternatively, lighter fees may simply be waived for missions - i.e. paid for by the issuing faction.

 

[Hydrino]

I posted for multi-role ship's boats ages ago with this as one purpose. The "fighter bay" is unfortunately named, but maybe in the future this change can happen.

It's probably a more complex than it seems, but I like the ideas and additional 'realism' FD could wring from it.

I have no issue with player ships vanishing when moored at a beacon outside a station, requiring them to remain in-game is a bit much.

I don't think the biggest ships should be able to land on high-g worlds for instance. Sending down an exploratory ship and/or SRV transport or cargo transfer from the "fighter bay", yes.

Ship thruster power should be transparent and consistent (even if a bit unrealistic for game purposes). Because the little maneuvering thrusters should not be as powerful as the main ones at the rear, unless they are just as large and power-hungry.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

The main issue I see with the S/M only outposts is that that they do not take advantage of the fact that they have a bunch of space. I think that while they may not be able to have the docking pad and do repair and refuel, they could have a “docking clamp” that would allow a large ship to trade cargo/missions.

It’s not like a naval port where water depth and real estate are a factor. They just need a docking clamp that could be put in any area.

This would also work on the other stations if they wanted to make an even bigger class of ships. Imagine something like the capitol ship docks.

 

[Daynen]

I kind of like where this is going, actually...please continue to iterate on this for relevance, practicality and polish. I'd like to see how well this could work.

 

[Lestat]

The idea sounds ok. But Let not have it for Stations. But maybe between Capital ship and player ship.