Carrier ship and module selling packages

Clarion-Z

Clarion-Z
As we all know how silly the current ship and module pack system for carriers already is, I'm still baffled that it hasn't been modified at all.

So dear FDEV.

How about:
Instead of selling packages of ships, each carrier could stock up ships freely (as in "1 of this and 2 of that" style) as much as there's landing pads on carrier. No extra room taken from carrier. Maybe add a secondary storage for sale that will take more space?.. anyways..
So you could store up to 16 ships for sale, as long as they fit the carrier pads: 8 large, 4 medium, 4 small. So max of 16 sideys for sale.
And the ships for sale could be bought as stock with 15% discount and sold to players with maximum of 100% extra

Similar with modules as those packs are most idiotic combinations I've seen.
For example, the outfitting feature would carry something like 100 units of space. Each module would take equal amount of space to their size. So up to 100 class 1 modules or 50 class 2 and so on. Again, maybe be able to add extra storage?
Same "buy them freely" style as with ships instead of packages with same discount and 100% extra to the price.
I know lots of people would love to, but no engineered or powerplay modules on sale, as you would buy the modules you want to sell from fleet carrier admin systems as we do now.

No idea if/how odyssey gear will be sold on carriers.. but whatever happens, don't make it like current package system :)
 

Lugh

Lugh
You're making it needlessly complicated and not fixing much.

As to why it is how it is. Fdev are terrified of the idea that players can easily make money with carriers.
 

Maolagin

M
Lugh said:
As to why it is how it is. Fdev are terrified of the idea that players can easily make money with carriers.
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FDev were arguably hesitant about enabling easy player-to-player transfers with carriers, although they seem to have largely made peace with it by now. But they definitely expected players would and are 100% on board with players using carriers to earn coin.

I'll concede I don't really get why FDev made the shipyard stocking mechanism so restrictive. Yes sure tradeoffs etc, but the circumstances where a player would buy a ship from a carrier instead of a station are already so niche that the whole mechanic hardly matters. They're mainly useful for selling emergency suicidewinders (suicidehaulers actually, the basic multipurpose pack with sidewinders takes up much more space) out in the deep black. So likewise no amount of tinkering around the edges is suddenly going to make carrier shipyards a big profit center.
 

Maolagin

M
Lugh said:
you can make money with them. but if you think its not intentionally hamstringed to make it as hard and convoluted as possible you're fooling yourself.
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Eh, I don't necessarily buy that. There's a difference between "this could be better" and "intentionally hamstrung" and I think carriers are mostly the former.

Think about the common complaints here. Lots of people asking for essentially crafting, since there are definitely players willing to pay well for prebuilt ships or preengineered modules. Frontier doesn't do that, not because they hate moneymaking, but because of the design decision that they want to retain control of what kinds of ships and modules you can buy. Similarly, carrier markets could be a whole lot better if there was an in-game player message board type service, so you could post ads or even cargo missions to your carrier. ED doesn't have this, not because the devs hate carrier markets, but because the in-game player communication tools are generally terrible. Third example, people complain that the carrier markets price setting UI is bad and limiting - which it certainly is. But it's also clearly done that way as a concession to console players with very limited control inputs, not as a way to cripple PC players who all have keyboards.

So I'm curious - what features/misfeatures do you think shows that FDev are intentionally limiting the ability to make money with carriers, as opposed to incidentally limiting it through unrelated design considerations or errors?
 

radekcz

R
The whole concept of Shipyard and Outfitting is wrong - nothing beyond what is at each station. For this reason, no one uses these extensions for FC.

To bring this part of the ED to life, I propose to allow you to insert your own ships (engineered and custom built) into Shipyeard. For the sake of simplicity, the price could be set as a percentage, e.g. from 10% of the market price to 500% (for all ships sold in this way).
 

Northpin

Northpin
Maolagin said:
FDev were arguably hesitant about enabling easy player-to-player transfers with carriers, although they seem to have largely made peace with it by now. But they definitely expected players would and are 100% on board with players using carriers to earn coin.

I'll concede I don't really get why FDev made the shipyard stocking mechanism so restrictive. Yes sure tradeoffs etc, but the circumstances where a player would buy a ship from a carrier instead of a station are already so niche that the whole mechanic hardly matters. They're mainly useful for selling emergency suicidewinders (suicidehaulers actually, the basic multipurpose pack with sidewinders takes up much more space) out in the deep black. So likewise no amount of tinkering around the edges is suddenly going to make carrier shipyards a big profit center.
Click to expand...

Carrier Outfitting (shipyard to a lesser extent) would have been (and it partially actually is) very useful in Colonia which lacked A-rated modules for a good part of its existence, although the scarcity of A-rated modules diminished a lot just in the last 6-8 months before carriers were introduced
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
They actually did more than they needed to - all the game needed was an extra 'sell from carrier' button in the shipyard when you attempt to sell an unengineered (or even engineered) ship / module. Then it does onto your FC for ppl to buy. And have the usual markup that you can add, and make the modules / ships take their own tonnage from the FC.

No need for all the extra packages etc, just Boom! done.

Sure, it would be a pain for large numbers of modules etc (and some would have chosen to stock everything), but hey, some people still do Powerplay: a bad UI is better than no UI at all :)
 

Cohen the Worrior

Cohen the Worrior
Get rid of it all. When ordering ships or modules, they should be flown in from the nearest station that sells 'm.
If that means you'll have to wait 68 hours, tough luck.
Walk to the nearest station then.
 

Maolagin

M
Cohen the Worrior said:
Get rid of it all. When ordering ships or modules, they should be flown in from the nearest station that sells 'm.
If that means you'll have to wait 68 hours, tough luck.
Walk to the nearest station then.
Click to expand...
I rather think that the whole point of needing to be in a carrier administration system to stock them, is that you're buying them wholesale from the factory. And you already can't stock superpower-linked ships, so I don't think there's any ships a carrier can sell that aren't already available somewhere in Colonia.
 
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