Cash for Credits! What does it mean to you?

Right I know this has been a deeply unpopular topic, Im not asking at this time whether its a good idea or not, Im asking What affects people see this having.

Im well aware that in some games real money transaction stores have been a bone of contention. What I want to do is see what everybody thinks it will do and cause and why, and whether it would be possible to design the system and game such that these negatives could be mitigated?

Whats the biggest negative effects?

Whats the biggest positive effects?

What do you most fear about this in game?

What do you most look forward to about this in game?

I plan on sumarising the most common responses here as the topic moves on.

First common response is concern (naturally) about people being tooled up on day 1 out competing non credit buying customers. For those with this concern Just a quick look at some maths based on a purely hypothetical credit cost:-

£2.50 per 1000 credits (plucked out of the air) allows a player to buy their way out of the worst of the early grind (running 2 tons of food from Diso to Leesti) to build up their 100 credits to the point where they can fill their hold properly and start making proper credits. Its affordable to just about anyone likelly to be playing the game, but the effects for those wanting to fully tool up on day one can be seen below (and the effects even at lower costs down to £1 per 1000 credits.

Just adding in the table from the other thread to show how, even at £1 per 1,000 credits, you're not going to be knee deep in Imperial Explorers on day one!

edprices.png

A panther clipper unequipped costs £6882 approximately at £2.50 / 1000 credits. Do these sort of prices make it seem more acceptable to those with this concern. How many people are going to be able to afford to buy these top flight ships and equip them and then risk the consequences of PvP piracy for your 2 tons of food?

second common concern "player equality" people buying credits have an unfair advantage over those putting in hard time at the keyboard. This again is a valid point, but there are plenty of players out there who wont have as much free time to play as many others but nobody is proposing that we limit all players to the 1 hour a week that some people may only be able to put in due to work, family, relationships etc etc. Gaming is inherently unequal, different players will have different circumstances \ hardware that give them an edge over other players, this just gives us one way for people to choose to get themselves out of a possible binding point as shown above this doesnt need to be game breaking or overly expensive.
 
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Im well aware that in some games real money transaction stores have been a bone of contention. What I want to do is see what everybody thinks it will do and cause and why, and whether it would be possible to design the system and game such that these negatives could be mitigated?
Sorry to be dumb, but why do you want to know this, are you involved in the development of the game? What is your motive?
 
Sorry to be dumb, but why do you want to know this, are you involved in the development of the game? What is your motive?

Well these forums are read by the developers of the game, and by members of the design decision forum.

If we can gather in one place all that people dont like about the idea perhaps they can come up with ways to mitigate these fears or design the system in such a way that those fears dont make it into the final version.

Im also interested for myself to understand other peoples points of view on it...

Im not in anyway involved in the development of the game any more than any one else. Just this particular subject is one Ive always been interested in. For many years Ive supported the abandonment of subscription models in favour of RMT stores, and Ive also long been in favour of developers themselves selling currency being as if they dont third parties will, and third parties are almost always worse for players...
 
As someone who enjoys playing MMORPG's I have to say that I am not the biggest fan of this. The positive side however is that people who do wish to buy credits can do so safely rather than relying on some dodgy cash/gold selling site.

The bad side is that those who are a bit strapped for cash are at an immediate disadvantage. True it just means it will take longer for them to build up there cash and may even feel more rewarding once there but I have never been a fan of something that gives one player an advantage over another just because they like to use their credit card.

Vanity items are fine as they don't give any advantage over other players. Credits, Betters Ships and Better Equipment however not a fan.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
.... but I have never been a fan of something that gives one player an advantage over another just because they like to use their credit card.
Similarly, looking at the average age of players in the poll here, it is highly likely that there are a signifcant number of working parents amongst us - this eats into potential gaming time (or leads to relationship breakdown.... ;)). Others may have the luxury of no dependents or the misfortune not to have a job - they may have more time available to them to play. Players with more time to play have an advantage over players whose game time is limited. Would you advocate a play time limit per day / month?
 
Similarly, looking at the average age of players in the poll here, it is highly likely that there are a signifcant number of working parents amongst us - this eats into potential gaming time (or leads to relationship breakdown.... ;)). Others may have the luxury of no dependents or the misfortune not to have a job - they may have more time available to them to play. Players with more time to play have an advantage over players whose game time is limited. Would you advocate a play time limit per day / month?

Yep there is the flip side gaming is not a "fair" activity,and attempts to make it "fair to everyone" would result in it being near unuseable to most people.

Im mainly looking for peoples concerns here though, and to see if they can be addressed seperately. Rather than the continual yay or nay debate. I personally think cash for credits is fine and reasonable and can be implemented without affecting to any great degree the none credit buyers. But I want to see waht people are afraid of and this is one of those things.
 
Others may have the luxury of no dependents or the misfortune not to have a job - they may have more time available to them to play. Players with more time to play have an advantage over players whose game time is limited. Would you advocate a play time limit per day / month?
Well said! :)
 
no real world income and big ambition

Hi. Since I have not got spare money in the real world, and there always is someone who does have plenty, I'd get behind if others could just buy a 500,000 Cr account with all ship upgrades in place. That could be rectified if there was a sufficient delay or across-galaxy separation between holders of upgraded accounts and genuine flyers who start small and dream big such as myself. I'd not mind in the least if Frontier implemented a simplified autopilot which does pretty much what I would do, which is finding optimal trading paths, and sent that into the area populated by bought-account holders. That way, they could test the military lasers of their very expensive Fer-de-Lance on an auto-me, without messing up my toils to get up to 5000 Cr.
 
Similarly, looking at the average age of players in the poll here, it is highly likely that there are a signifcant number of working parents amongst us - this eats into potential gaming time (or leads to relationship breakdown.... ;)). Others may have the luxury of no dependents or the misfortune not to have a job - they may have more time available to them to play. Players with more time to play have an advantage over players whose game time is limited. Would you advocate a play time limit per day / month?

Of course not but surely those who put the time and effort in should reap the rewards? Not someone who puts their credit card numbers in. If this was solely a single player game than fair enough but as it is going to be an online game where you are competing with others that's where my concern lies.

Imagine there are two players one who has been playing for months and one who has just signed up. Lets say they are both racing to get a rare supply of gem stones for example. The guy who has been playing for months has saved up and got a half decent ship while Mr New Guy has done nothing but use his card to get the fastest and best. He gets their first and clears out the supply. If I was the first guy I would be pretty annoyed.

True I am only guessing that the online functionality is going to work this way but this is a concern for me and why I don't like the ability to buy credits.
 
Imagine there are two players one who has been playing for months and one who has just signed up. Lets say they are both racing to get a rare supply of gem stones for example. The guy who has been playing for months has saved up and got a half decent ship while Mr New Guy has done nothing but use his card to get the fastest and best. He gets their first and clears out the supply. If I was the first guy I would be pretty annoyed
The first guy in that scenario would probably be annoyed no matter what. He's no way of knowing how that other player got that great ship, so the money issue should not trouble him.
 
The first guy in that scenario would probably be annoyed no matter what. He's no way of knowing how that other player got that great ship, so the money issue should not trouble him.

so true, the only time C4C would be noticeable to the second guy is the first day the game is out, even then with the different start options provided by the KS it will be very hard to tell if someone just emptied their bank account on credits unless they were flying a 750 capacity Boa or something, if they do something like that all they accomplish is painting a massive target on their back.
 
Hi. Since I have not got spare money in the real world, and there always is someone who does have plenty, I'd get behind if others could just buy a 500,000 Cr account with all ship upgrades in place. That could be rectified if there was a sufficient delay or across-galaxy separation between holders of upgraded accounts and genuine flyers who start small and dream big such as myself. I'd not mind in the least if Frontier implemented a simplified autopilot which does pretty much what I would do, which is finding optimal trading paths, and sent that into the area populated by bought-account holders. That way, they could test the military lasers of their very expensive Fer-de-Lance on an auto-me, without messing up my toils to get up to 5000 Cr.

I suspect that a combination of Frontiers consequences of piracy and the real world cost of credits would combine to stop very many day 1 lunatics.

As we worked out on another thread if 1000 credits (A minor but usefull credit bump to help take some of the effort out of the worst of the early grind) cost £2.50 a reasonable sum for just about anyone to afford, an unequipped asp (going by frontier prices) would be £468 how many people are going to be paying out for an iron ass Asp on day 1 and then risking it with player piracy :eek:.

Your theoretical 500,000 credit account would cost £1250. Bearing in mind that frontier sold 500,000 copies, maybe we could expect 1,000,000 players out of those 1,000,000 players maybe 4-5 would both have that sort of disposable money and be malevolent souls and be prepared to risk the repurcussions, your chances of meeting them are pretty slim.

Its quite easy to design things such that people can buy credits, and for those credits to be both meaningful and usefull without unleashing all manner of chaos.

EDIT

Credit prices can go down as the game progresses meaning the credit buyers later can achieve more, allowing later comers to catch up easier, and allowing the devs to stay ahead of potential chinese farmers, and allowing non credit buyers time to get themselves up to spec.

Elite the early grind is always the worst, getting your 100credits up to a significant seed is the worst, 1000cr for £2.50 allows someone to get their first 5000 credit seed for a minimal price, and not at all gamebreaking
 
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The first guy in that scenario would probably be annoyed no matter what. He's no way of knowing how that other player got that great ship, so the money issue should not trouble him.

There is in-game chat and from past experience there are many idiots who would advertise/brag the fact they have the best and how they got it. Also, what if it is a friend or a fellow guild/team mate?

Please don't get me wrong I am not saying it is wrong for the game. I am really hoping this makes big bucks for FD and they pump some of it back into the game. I am just concerned that why I start playing, here I am with my little Krait Assault Craft and everyone else is going to have Panther Clippers.
 
There is in-game chat and from past experience there are many idiots who would advertise/brag the fact they have the best and how they got it. Also, what if it is a friend or a fellow guild/team mate?

Please don't get me wrong I am not saying it is wrong for the game. I am really hoping this makes big bucks for FD and they pump some of it back into the game. I am just concerned that why I start playing, here I am with my little Krait Assault Craft and everyone else is going to have Panther Clippers.

Not necesarily look at the figures I quote above, its all about the pricing :D Frontier can make plenty of money without seeing just about anyone buying a panther clipper for real world cash...


EDIT That Panther clipper at the rates mentioned about would be the best part of £7000 (£6882) Unequipped!, if theres many players willing to pay that out its bloomin marvelous news for the future of the game! Its all about balance and pricing, price the credits to be usefull affordable but not game breaking its perfectly doable :D
 
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Just adding in the table from the other thread to show how, even at £1 per 1,000 credits, you're not going to be knee deep in Imperial Explorers on day one!

edprices.png
 
Just adding in the table from the other thread to show how, even at £1 per 1,000 credits, you're not going to be knee deep in Imperial Explorers on day one!

edprices.png

Yep, you will get a fair few people willing to skip the moving 2 tons of food from diso to leesti for 2 days, but not very many tooling up too the max, and even less of those willing to take on the consequences of PvP piracy (for 2 tons of food) with their hard earned cash.
 
Not necesarily look at the figures I quote above, its all about the pricing :D Frontier can make plenty of money without seeing just about anyone buying a panther clipper for real world cash...


EDIT That Panther clipper at the rates mentioned about would be the best part of £7000 (£6882) Unequipped!, if theres many players willing to pay that out its bloomin marvelous news for the future of the game! Its all about balance and pricing, price the credits to be usefull affordable but not game breaking its perfectly doable :D

I guess once we know how much things are going to cost, like you said 1,000 credits for £2.50 we will be in a better position to know how it will all play out.
 
I guess once we know how much things are going to cost, like you said 1,000 credits for £2.50 we will be in a better position to know how it will all play out.

Yep hence Im looking for peoples concerns, its a perfectly valid concern, but its not something that cant be overcome and the game to work perfectly well. The more different concerns we have here the more Frontier can see what people want to avoid and design their costs and systems to avoid those issues and we can all get a better gaming experience for it
 
stupid rich

If the stupid rich want to cough up 6000 quid of real world money for a ship which would take literally months of gameplay to earn then those ones probably want to demonstrate superiority over dolts who coughed up 300 quid of real world money for some advantageous equipment, who in turn want to show off to people with the 120 quid account.

Fortunately, the galaxy is big enough for those ones to show off to one another without imposing "weapons effectiveness inflation" on the rest of us. Either sending them to their own "posh toffs enclave" on the other side of the galaxy or having their reality only tenously linked to the one which we see and only if a button to opt in is ticked would be possible. Playing with bought credits could automatically shift the player default settings to share a galaxy with people in a comparable spending band.

That way, a well chosen and skillfully used purchase could go head to head against the stupid rich and toast them.
 
The one thing you can never do is shift people who pay out of the main arena (unless they want that, and then you open up other problems re. Pay 2 Win given that developers will develop better content for those areas inhabited by paying customers).
 
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