CCC Launch Party + A General Report On Mass Events

Document KSR-651/Y
Clearance: Public


CCN Custodian Office​

CMDR Qohen Leth, Leader of the CCC
(Christmas Carriers Convoy)

Dec. 8th, 3302

Written from the Command ship Salammbô


Doc. type:
REPORT


Object:
CCC Departure




  • On the 2nd of December, 3302, about 200 pilots gathered over an 8-hour span to mark the beginning of the Christmas Carriers Convoy. Despite the risk of aggressive encounters and the limits of our logistical capabilities, the operation was an overall success.

    The preparations for this started when the first draft of this expedition was submitted to the Council, on the 23rd of September. Back then, the scope of the event was a tad more ambitious; but as reality kicked in, we had to step back a little in order to make sure everyone would enjoy it. Using our various experiences of mass events (Distant Worlds Expeditions, Crab Nebula Expedition, August Exodus - Jaunt To Jaques, ...), we worked on several points that needed improvement in order to try and bring fleet ops to the next level:
    • Instancing
    • Procedure
    • Communications
    By working on those crucial points for over two months, we let ourselves enjoy a massive launch party in a smooth, flawless and orderly fashion. Though a few details can still be improved, we believe to have drafted a solid set of guidelines for smooth and enjoyable mass events.



    Instancing

    We first wanted to host the departure in Open airspace. Safety was less than half a problem, the real struggle being, as our first dry run proved quite well, instancing. With enough ships cruising in the delimited airspace of the departure system, chances were slim that any other ship than those registered and cleared in by winging process would ever be able to show up and cause any damage. But the fact that this very airspace was theoretically open to any other is probably what made the winging process such a nightmare. It was extremely difficult to gather everyone during this first dry run, and after a couple hours of failure, we decided to change from Open to Restricted airspace. On the second dry run, the winging process went flawlessly and the Beacon ships had been able to gather most of the fleet in a very short timeframe. We may have lost something on the principle of Open vs Private, but we gained a lot more in terms of enjoyment, as the launch party proved. Safety-wise, for the reason abovementionned, we probably did not lose anything. NPCs were enough to keep our Escort busy.

    Remained the problem that holding very large fleets in a single airspace is... still a problem. We remember the few 100+ ships mass jumps that ever happened (first one being during DWE); we also remember that those take hours to put into place, causing a lot of time waste, ship computer crashes, sudden disconnections, etc.; for a show that is not that more enjoyable than a smaller one. A mass jump is a difference in quality with a single-ship jump; but a 100-ship jump is only a difference of quantity with a 20-ship jump. It's also worth noting that 100 ships are always more than anyone can monitor, provided the airspace allows one to actually be able to see all of them. For all these reason, it seemed to us that it wasn't worth sacrificing the comfort and enjoyment of all to the altar of a size contest.

    We thus came with the solution of setting up not one but several airspaces, each rallied around a single pilot, acting as a beacon and winging their fleet in. Airspaces were designed to hold a decent amount of ships for spectacular jumps, but not so many as to cause hardware complications; we settled at around 25 ships per airspace. Copycatting the larger organization at a smaller level, each airspace would then need its Escort and its communications channel. Though it may seem to be a lot more work than a single airspace, once the standard organization has been decided, there's nothing easier than duplicating it as many times as and to any scale one needs. In the process, everything goes as the standard organization goes, with this vital difference than when the large organization always hits a wall at some point, the smaller ones do not. And just like that, we could have any number of pilots in the same event theoretically without any issue.

    We actually had 140 pilots during the Euro launch party. There were disconnection issues, but not to the point of being such a struggle that the pilot would eventually give up and leave. In Beacon 1, were I was, there was only one pilot having difficulty joining the airspace; part of the difficulties often was the pilot not fully knowing the winging process. About 15 minutes before the official departure clearance time, my ship went online; I got winged up; exited the station; supercruised to my Beacon, dropped and found him, the Escort, and the rest of our fleet 20km farther away. Not a single issue for the hour or so I idly waited for the last ships to join in.

    It is worth noting that after the first jump, most of the fleet was still in the same airspace. I couldn't get confirmation on other Beacons, but I believe it was the case there too. And we mostly stayed in the same airspace during the 10 coordinated jumps. At some point, I had to shake off a chaser, I thus jumped to a random system, waited for the next countdown, then jump back in route, to find myself in our shared airspace again. We also caught up a few ships from the Beacon 6 airspace. As far as security goes, I don't have reports of Escorts being unable to drop onto their target; if a Carrier took damage, it was not due to airspace struggle. From what I heard, the Escort did an excellent job at being fast and reactive.

    Last aspect, but not the least, was to launch from deep space. Surfaces are very demanding to most ships' computers, and so is having a whole fleet around oneself. Choosing to gather and depart in deep space most probably saved us disconnects and ship computer crashes, whilst allowing for pilots without surface permits to join the party.



    Procedure

    If this event proved one thing, it's that it can only go well as long as procedures are followed. This will never be stressed enough. Everyone who followed the procedure and waited for their turn to be processed, went in and as far as I know, had a great time. Those who failed to follow the first instructions missed something (or didn't want to bother, which is fine as long as they don't confuse the people in charge) and most importantly waste our time. But the problem lies even before the event itself.

    The information must be easily accessible, anytime, to anyone. This is probably the most vital point. But there is only so much one can do, and this is an effort that has to be shared by both the organizers and the participants. As an organizer, I decided to put all the information on a thread. The only single missing information (for security, then RP purposes) was the departure system; which was to be made available on the communications server, as clearly indicated, two days prior to launch. My mistake was to not mention where exactly it would be posted in the server. So basically, everything was in the same location, with the exception of the key to participating in the event, which required one to be on the server, which itself was a very clear requirement to take part in this event.

    Participant-side, there are a few things that are highly unadvised; such as inventing information that is not present nor implied anywhere, reading fast and missing all kinds of information, reading it once two months prior to launch and not updating oneself a few days before, using a mobile (knowing that things might not be properly formatted, not be displayed, etc.), not following the instructions, etc. Not only is one liable to ruin their experience of the event, but one can be sure to make the organizers waste their time and efforts on D-Day. The vast majority of questions I was asked about the expedition was being answered to on the thread since the beginning. To be clear though, not understanding is not a problem - not making the effort to go get the information and understand it, is. To help prevent this, it proved necessary to have several people steering the participants to the information, to make sure that as many of them as possible would know everything before D-Day.

    Yet that did not prevent Command from having to process unprepared participants while they were busy enough as it was. Maybe everything should be set and locked before D-Day, to prevent all last-minute processing. Although we've been able to handle all the special cases due to a large staff being available, skilled and efficient, an event with less organizers, less preparation and/or less dedicated people might not be able to. Participants joining the server literally at the last minute, when the thread had been online for more than two months, is a terrible mistake. Often in a rush, these people will probably not have read the thread properly and won't know how to clear their access to the information, will thus ask around, will have to be explained what is written on the thread already, they will then either clog up the comms channels or send private message to the organizers, who have no time at to spend on this during the event. For those who didn't bother to be prepared - this is not respectful of everyone's effort. Same goes for the Procedure document, which had been made available several weeks in advance, updated once, and which should have been read/read again just before the event. Apart from the few people who didn't read it, read it too fast or missed something due to language barrier*, everyone who followed it contributed to the party happening smoothly and safely. The event has proven that a carefully prepared procedure really improves the way things go, as everyone (and especially the logistics and the organizers) knew exactly what to do. From the dispatch to the mass jumps, every situation was clearly detailed in the document, so that people would be processed without idle time and uncertainties.

    Thanks to the participation of serious and dedicated people, we have been able to draw up, set up and follow a very precise procedure that left no potential situation unanswered. We divided key responsabilites between people and made sure everyone knew their bit. I won't talk about the pre-Procedure responsabilities; I'll only present the key roles that are likely to remain as such in further mass events (Patrol is specific to events progressing over several systems in a coordinated fashion).
    • Dispatch is the first step, as they had to spread all the participants into several airspaces, as per our pre-defined course of action. Dispatch has to make sure that airspaces are filled to a decent yet comfortable amount, taking into account the balance of roles (Carrier, Escort, Tanker) as well as, if possible, the timezones, in order to improve airspaces as much as possible (Beacon 5 was mostly US players during the Eruo launch, and Beacon 6 is where they dispatched the Pacific/NZ timezones). It is a fast job, requiring sharp focus. In a little over an hour, they managed to dispatch more than 100 people into 5 role-play airspaces, cross-checking all requests on a text channel and confirming them. Dispatch is (or was, at least in this event) a two-time process: a beacon request is needed as well as being in the common voice channel, the latter being a necessary token of one's presence in a given airspace, and the former being a clearance step for participation (see 'Communications' below).

    • Beacon is the second step. The Beacon does nothing but winging the fleet in and being available on all means of communication (voice, in-game text, Discord text channels). They must be comfortable with the game controls, with english and of course with people - patience sometimes is needed to help the beginners, whom we had in numbers. They will also coordinate the jump(s) and manage the Escort if the need arises, they thus must understand the responsability they take. Regarding Dispatch and Beacon, it now seems obvious that these two vital roles should be separated, allowing each person to be focused on one thing, but work closely to ensure fluid processing of the participants.

    • Escorts protect the ships and must be autonomous. Tied to a Beacon, they must know who is coming at all times, know each other and be on the lookout without needing to be told by the Beacon. After consideration, we thought best to have Escorts free of any wing to be able to wing up and drop in on anyone as fast as possible. They all did a great job on the CCC launch party, due to the facts that they knew who was Escort long before D-Day, they were dispatched first, they used clear radio etiquette to pass on information and they were constantly listening to the Beacon.


    *This matter is closely tied to an extremely important one: communication. We had a couple hiccups before and during the event because the person involved never thought of mentionning that they had trouble speaking english, thus leading us to believe that they were a troll (as it appeared in those particular conversations) and to treat them as such. It is VITAL that one mentions it RIGHT AWAY to spare everyone the trouble of understanding each others - if not worse. It is also taken for granted that when rules are set, they are NOT to be broken; it may be a game, but it's only one as long as everyone plays along. If one breaks a rule because of a hardware/software issue, it is VITAL that one mentions it RIGHT AWAY, to avoid being treated as a rule breaker.



    Communications

    As a few previous attempts proved, having 100 people in the same Discord voice channel doesn't work. Discord is still a young software and hits the limits pretty fast. It was also obvious that with several independent airspaces, we couldn't possibly have a single voice channel. We thus divided the comms into several channels, each one being attributed to an airspace, managed by a Beacon; which went mostly very well - with still a few audio network issues. The other problem though, was that we couldn't easily coordinate the whole fleet across separated channels. Besides, some airspaces were ready to go long before some others - so in the end, we amended our plans and decided that past the official clearance hour, all Beacons were clear to lead their airspace onto the first systems, following the pre-planned route. Which they did brilliantly. This had been unforseen but turned out to work really well; as we wouldn't have a whole-fleet-mass-jump, there wasn't any point in keeping everyone waiting for the same hour. Instead, all the airspaces had their fun without waiting.

    Nonetheless, we needed at least one text channel, which was strictly managed, to send beacon requests for dispatch. To access both the voice and text channels, one needed a proper CCC Discord role (which was self-assignable), thus filtering out non-participants. Beacon requests in text provided a log that Dispatch could then manage as needed - mainly, dispatch Escort first, then Carriers. Cross-checking requests with presence in the CCC common voice channel, they could discard anyone not following instructions. The request could provide information such as the timezone, and of course the CCC role-play role. Once dispatched, the requests were confirmed using a Discord reaction, making it easy to spot leftovers and such. On the sides, it was also very important to have a few people in the common channels reminding participants of the instructions in order to get in.

    During the event, comms had to be prioritized, in order to ensure that the Beacon could work efficiently and that the Escort could receive and share information immediately. It was also suggested to use a proper radio etiquette. This provided a powerful role-play feeling that did not prevent people from talking and having fun, yet allowed all important communications to go through among each airspace. I can only speak for Beacon 1 and the CCC common channel here, but overall the participants really played along and did not clutter the comms. Arriving pilots could talk and request info or escort freely. It seemed that the role-play aspect was strong and enjoyable enough to invite participants to self-moderate; and they actually showed an incredible availability to help and assits all pilots and especially newbies who had never taken part into such events in Elite.

    D7WJ7f0.png

    It seems overall very restrictive. But the reason for such a detailed and precise logistical preparation is simple. We wanted everyone to be able to enjoy the launch party, meaning we had to be reasonable on every aspect, meaning we had to compromise role-play and logistics together, and eventually follow a procedure where everyone would be taken care of, provided they complied. As a 'simple' Carrier, all one had to do is request a beacon on the server, be in voice comms (even muted), and wait for dispatch. From then on, they'd be taken care of by the Beacon. We had quite a lot of beginners, not only in mass events, but in Elite as well, and the feedback the organizers received is extremely positive. The beginners enjoyed the event from start to finish, thanks to the precise procedure and the patience and dedication of the Beacons. Once rolling, the event went flawlessly.


    ==================

    So, as a recap, what we learned.
    • Above a certain amount of people, the discomfort and technical issues are not worth the extra ships. Reasonnable instances are definitely more enjoyable.
    • A lot of preparation is better than 4 hours of improvisation.
    • Share the responsability: less ground to cover, better covering.
    • A clear and thorough procedure is a highly recommended asset for any sort of organized event.
    • Participants need to make an effort on their side to make sure they are ready before the event.
    • Adapt the logistics to the scale of the event.
    • If possible, rehearse, do a dry run.
    • When rules are followed, things work.


    The CCC organization team hopes that this report will shed some light on mass events organization and help leaders prepare their own.



    Many thanks to all the people who helped setting the party up.

    Souvarine (Mission Command)
    Ian Doncaster (Escort Command)

    Pendragon55555 (US Coordinator)
    Mostly Awol (US Coordinator)

    Beacons:

    D Sinclair
    DavidStHubbins
    DrYayoMeister (XBox)
    EchoWake (XBox)
    Erimus Kamzel
    Judge Rhadamanthus
    KT421
    NOHJ
    Shand Gruffly
    Souvarine
    Zephrow

    Dr Kaii, Obsidian Ant, Frontier (Newsletter)

    Maximilian Reach (Video - coming soon)

    Teamwork, baby!​






End of report.



CMDR Qohen Leth

  • [tr]
    [td]
    Reports from CCC Departure Logistics (extracted from file b44392/2)​

    ----------------------Beginning of file------------------
    • CMDR ZEPHROW (Euro Beacon)

      Being a Beacon was a truly unique experience, and I'm glad that I did it after all. Seeing all the CMDRs jumping under my command, processing them, all of them arriving safe at the last waypoint. Very immersive, they also thanked me at the end. I would like to thank you and the others for this unique experience and for a job well done.

      ----------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR ECHO WAKE (XBox)

      Christmas Carriers Convoy Report - XB1-001
      December 3, 2016

      Despite some uneasiness among some commanders about pirates, everything seems to have gone smoothly. We had hoped for a mass exit similar to the groups that had left before us but with the small numbers we had, there was, as I had expected, three separate jump windows for our group of commanders who were looking to be part of larger fleets. I have heard of reports that the first group was small only consisting of four commanders and one at least one of which turned back to assist with the second group of commanders that were to jump out. The second group was a bit larger with eight commanders but still vastly smaller than our counterparts that left earlier in the day. The third group I find to somewhat interesting as it consisted of the two commanders that tried to organize us into a larger fleet and were the last to leave the system. We had also managed to pick another commander whom decided that a group like ours deserved to have more than one stratotanker and outfitted his ship with appropriate equipment to assist in the convoy.

      All in all I believe the group managed to make to the first way point of Shapley 1 with no major disasters and at least one commander has even made it to around base camp two. Also one last thing it was Commander Dr. Yayomeisters birthday on the 2nd, so please say happy birthday.


      ----------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR SAFTEYBOT (Euro/US Patrol)

      EU:
      From my point of view, this one went very smoothly. It got to be a little tricky to keep track of the groups as they moved from waypoint to waypoint, which made it harder to sweep systems ahead of them. NPCs were light, and there were no NPCs that decided to be a problem. We mostly acted as scouts. Ian did see some trouble in the last waypoint, I guess a couple of NPCs popped up over there, while myself and the other scouts were going back for stragglers. Ian handled it.

      US:
      Miami was way more active with NPCs for some reason, which lead to Beacon 1 having a hard time getting under way. They eventually had to return to the station in Miami for repairs, after not being able to find a convienient repair station further along the route. Aaron Star and another patroller (sadly, I forgot the name) performed an impressive rescue of MF1ve, droping into his wake to doubleteam an NPC Anaconda that had been after him for some time. This had the same issue where it was a little tricky to keep track of the beacons and their groups. It was compounded by the heavier NPC turnout, but I don't think there were any casualties. On the second one we did the same scouting, with a bit of traffic control (while systems were being cleared), and beacon monitoring. We also got into more combat, which was good!

      Both were a lot of fun, and I'd be happy to participate in another similar event in the future. The main change I would make would be to make sure the scouts have the waypoints bookmarked, and friend-invite all the beacons ahead of time, so they could track their movement via the galaxy map.


      ----------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR CHARLES VON HACKBEIL (Euro Carrier)

      Yesterday's departure went very well. The tension was rising when more and more people arrived in Miami, just a short time before dispatch would start. General excitement was in the air, no one could await it anymore. At last, around 1800 dispach began, requests were filed quickly.

      Beacon 2 was working like a charm, Cmdr Nohj contacted me shortly after my request, he was doing a very good job, guiding me through the process in a very calm and clear fashion. I certainly profited from taking part in the training, so I knew what to do. I dropped into the beacon instance very early and tried to be helpful where I could.

      The number of people without any travelling experience surprised me though, but even the absolute beginners were guided through the process very sensibly. Cmdr Nohj was everpresent. Also our escorts did a great job, Nightstalker and Dallas Cowboy, very calm, always there when needed. All this made a great backdrop for everyone, it made it feel easy to be part of something. Something really big. Bigger than what most of us experienced before.

      The escorts guided the insecure carriers through the first jumps out of the bubble, being their lifelines more than once. But every threat was fought off, all the carriers started their journey out of the bubble and into the void, all of them still fascinated by what has just happened to them.

      Interestingly, the pilot with the biggest troubles was the one with the most experience in travelling, Cmdr Isokix. He was interdicted in Nevada, having his shieldless Beluga stripped down to 20% hull, when a sudden imbalance of the force saved his . He magically disappered. Everything happened too fast for his escort to react, Isokix was interdicted the second he arrived in Nevada. Lucky Isokix though, he managed to reappear from another dimension with fully restored 100% hull, so we all pretended nothing has ever happened.

      There was also a small incident with our beacon, Cmdr Nohj. But the whole team of beacon 2 chose to remain silent about it...


      ----------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR IAN DONCASTER (Escort Command)

      Mission 16-164 report [Iridium Wing]
      Explorers: about 100 of them, various ship classes, all carrying cargo as well.
      Iridium Wing: Ian Doncaster (Escort Command), D Sinclair (Beacon 3), P Mangham (Escort)

      Additional Support: Qohen Leth of the CCN (Dispatch), Souvarine of the CCN (Mission Command), numerous Colonia Militia Forces pilots from at least 6 different factions.
      Route: outbound escort LTT 9846 to Tau-1 Aquarii

      Results: Six beacons were used to group carriers with escorts around Magna in LTT 9846. A small number of escorts maintained a Charlie-style supercruise patrol of the system to protect inbound carriers.

      The fleet then jumped along a pre-agreed route between the departure and destination systems, with beacons keeping their group together, but no attempt being made to coordinate Beacon departures from the system. All groups met with significant pirate interdictions on the way to Tau-1 Aquarii. No explorers were lost, though two ships were sufficiently damaged as to need to return to LTT 9846 for repairs before departing again. A further US-timezone departure successfully used the same procedure to move a further 50 ships clear, again with no losses.

      Recommendations: The broad procedure worked well. Interference from NPC pirates was high, as expected, but escorts were generally able to protect their carriers. Additional training for and advance identification of Patrol ships would be desirable in future. In general more training for escorts would help. Further information for explorers - perhaps including video tutorials - might help them avoid unnecessary risks during arrival at the departure system. With additional pre-work, the main tasks of the dispatch role could be semi-automated by a Discord bot, leaving the dispatch officer freer to concentrate on irregularities and special cases. Discord's voice support is really not up to the task of coordinating this large a departure. Alternatives should be considered in future. On the bright side, Elite Dangerous's instancing seemed better than usual.

      NPC pirates continued to occasionally intercept cargo-carrying ships to around 450 LY from Sol. This should also be considered for inbound escorts, and it may be desirable to use light fighters with longer jump range for initial cover when the cargo risk factor applies, to be joined by standard escort ships closer to the bubble.


      ---------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR ELECTRIKCAT

      The departure went reasonably smoothe. As a beacon, I really didn't have any trouble getting people to drop in on me, and everyone pretty much did as told. Then the trouble started. We had a pirate in a gunship drop in on Tath as he came in, and we dispatched it quickly.. Maybe a little too quickly actually, because one of us (totally not me) shot it before scanning, and gained a bounty. Then the police came in, scanned someone (totally not me) and attacked. We had to quickly jump out as we were being attacked by the system security.

      Upon our emergency jump, we arrived in Wilson. Almost immediately, Tath got interdicted by a pirate, and we had to save him. Then we decided to jump to the next system. We sent Phoenix first as a scout, and then jumped when he said it was clear. MF1VE and Tath were in a wing and both of them were carriers, and MF1VE was nav-locked when Tath jumped in... And got interdicted again... (At this point, I wanted to re-scan him to make sure he wasn't carrying pirate magnets)

      Well, we went a bit farther, battling interdictions the whole way before getting about halfway when we learned some of the other groups hadn't even left yet! We ended up taking a vote and decided to head all the way back to Miami to repair and restock, with Tath and MF1VE sitting at thirty and fifty percent, respectively. So we head back, and luckily without event.

      Then we headed back out after docking. We mass-jumped and decided to do our jumps in supercruise. We got around where we were rather quickly and without much event, but the latter half was filled with more misfit adventures! Stargrease ended up unable to jump to the right system half the time, but we think it's due to thargoids having infected his navigational system.. He really ought to have that checked out. He had the jump range, though, to meet us at the next system every time, so all was good. We actually were having so much enjoyment out of our misfit adventures that we stayed together, jumping under my route for hours after we passed Tau.

      There were photos taken to remember that day, we made sure to keep in touch and Acroci made emblems for all of us. We had a ton of laughs and will be sure to meet again. This was one of my most interesting experiences in the galaxy and I'll be surprised if anything ever tops it. We'll have to see what happens, but for now this is CMDR Electrikcat signing out.

      Be safe, commanders!


      --------------------------------------------------------
    • CMDR SOUVARINE

      My role on the day was limited to that of a Beacon, which in practise was basically a mini Fleet Command. My instance was stable and well-populated, and all Commanders reported really enjoying the launch and the roleplay.

      I found the role of Beacon really satisfying - it was great to roleplay a coordination like that, and I got really into character - as did the pilots in my instance.

      From an organisational perspective, I think we were lucky though. We didn’t have much contingency planning and we had insufficient top-level leadership available to support and manage the operation. For example, if two of the Beacons had failed to show up, we would have greatly struggled to accommodate the fleet. Also, the lack of a strong leadership presence across the voice channels meant that the instances had to operate completely independently - they weren’t coordinated.

      In an ideal world, we would have had enough Beacons to allow me to be Fleet Command, and move between voice channels coordinating.

      I feel that the Beacons were all relieved and happy that it went well, but I suspect that most felt ill-prepared. It would have been good to prep more Beacons, further in advance.

      So - my recommendations for next time:

      Fleet Command to be separate from the Beacon role, to allow greater support and voice coordination between instances.
      More Beacons, brought on earlier. Ideally twice as many Beacons enlisted as there are instances - just in case some Beacons don’t show up on the day.

      These are the only areas I feel needed improvement, and luckily they didn’t detract from the success of the event at all.

    ----------------------End of file------------------------
[/td]
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I salute your efforts for this magnificent event :)
I wish I could be at the launch but as you can imagine real-life sometimes gets in the way (how rude!).

Great job again, see you out there o7
 
Luck favors the prepared

A virtual +1.

Wish I could've been there. Luckily a late Stratotanker needed an escort the very next day and under the experienced wings of CMDR Ian Doncaster, we managed to escort the Stratotanker out of the bubble almost without incident. I say almost because while flying ahead and giving the clear on the next system, a Diamondback Explorer NPC appeared and said something about "all that tasty cargo" and then he interdicted me. Which was a big mistake on his part, Serenity melted his ship in about 10 secs. Yes, she is very highly engineered....

All that tasty cargo? Well, just a little bit of this and that. Merely redistributing goods really...
ZIVpZgC.png
 
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