Chainlink/mesh panel pieces

For the longest time I've been contemplating whether I should put this under suggestions or not, but I feel like this is more something that really should be part of the game by noz rather than just be a mere suggestion to add to the game. (My apologies if this ends up having to be moved anyway)

I think at this point in time, a big miss in the game in terms of building is a bunch of non grid plaster panel sized chainlink pieces. Chainlink is one of the most commonly used pieces of material in zoos, which is why it baffles me to this day that we still don't have any non grid versions of them. So many things could be done with it, from making covered exhibits for big cats and lemurs to making a glass wall with a mesh top like they have in quite a few zoos.

I can understand the idea behind it being not included (yet) because in an ideal world you want it to be climbable from both sides, with like lemurs climbing the inner side of a sloped piece; but I honestly would much rather have those pieces without it being climbable on both sides; than to not have them at all.

At this point, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact that they're not in (yet).
 
Similar ideas have been suggested before. I've brought up the concept of a full chain-link building set with both grid and non-grid pieces a few times. There do seem to be more than a few players who support the idea so hopefully Frontier can provide.

Really it ought to be included in a full scenery set with all the random bits and pieces you would want to see in a real zoo. I know they eventually added in back-stage props and the like to Coaster, so hopefully we'll see them added to Zoo at some point as well.
 
I'm all for it. I know it may not be as elegant as some of the materials currently in the game, and not as visually appealing, but I think it is something that exists to some degree in most zoos. It would be nice to have the option.
 
I agree too. I was disappointed when the game was released and we did not have the ability to make covered exhibits. Absolutely needed for a zoo building game. And I would be totally okay if the interior side was not climbable. Just want to be able to build covered exhibits. And would be great for off show areas too. Non grid mesh or chain link panels would open up a world of possibilities.
 
For the longest time I've been contemplating whether I should put this under suggestions or not, but I feel like this is more something that really should be part of the game by noz rather than just be a mere suggestion to add to the game. (My apologies if this ends up having to be moved anyway)

I think at this point in time, a big miss in the game in terms of building is a bunch of non grid plaster panel sized chainlink pieces. Chainlink is one of the most commonly used pieces of material in zoos, which is why it baffles me to this day that we still don't have any non grid versions of them. So many things could be done with it, from making covered exhibits for big cats and lemurs to making a glass wall with a mesh top like they have in quite a few zoos.

I can understand the idea behind it being not included (yet) because in an ideal world you want it to be climbable from both sides, with like lemurs climbing the inner side of a sloped piece; but I honestly would much rather have those pieces without it being climbable on both sides; than to not have them at all.

At this point, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact that they're not in (yet).


This is obviously zoo 101 and as basic as it gets, so in my opinion it probably was left out on purpose. I do believe that at some point we will get birds into the game, and the ability to create roofs etc out of mesh would be added to the barrier system, possibly new barriers as well. It is an odd choice to hold pieces/barriers that can allow for fully netted exhibits to be created, however in Frontier's world it seems that they rather release things in themes, and sadly they have associated the ability to create full mesh exhibits with aviaries, when we all know this is not clearly not the case in real life. In any event I do agree with you that this should have been here since day one, as it is as basic and elemental in zoo building as it gets. Even without birds, we already have many species that would benefit greatly from this pieces you mention. It is impossible at this point to create anything virtually realistic in terms of fully netted exhibits, some players have created mesh roofs sections out of mostly rope, but they are even remotely close to the real thing, and look completely out of place. Just as you were, I was perplexed that this has not made into the game as of yet. Planet Zoo is an incredibly beautiful game and its creators have been fantastic, but at times it does feel that it is a long term proposition and we currently own is an unfinished product that will at best take years before it can come into perspective.
 
I'm all for it. I know it may not be as elegant as some of the materials currently in the game, and not as visually appealing, but I think it is something that exists to some degree in most zoos. It would be nice to have the option.


Actually from a zoo design perspective, mesh can be quite elegant, it all comes down to its use. Some highly intricate and visually stunning modern zoo exhibits use mesh as their design, the material varies depending on budget and species displayed, but it is certainly an integral part of zoos. In addition to these kind of exhibits being a must to recreate realism in a zoo, they are a quite versatile, since you can combine them in a number of ways with other available materials in the game. You can as an example use Plexiglas for the guess viewing areas and use add mesh to simply create a roof that contains small primates and climbing cats, there are just limitless possibilities with the addition of this pieces, and it would all make zoos look not only more realistic but elegant as well.
 
This is obviously zoo 101 and as basic as it gets, so in my opinion it probably was left out on purpose. I do believe that at some point we will get birds into the game, and the ability to create roofs etc out of mesh would be added to the barrier system, possibly new barriers as well. It is an odd choice to hold pieces/barriers that can allow for fully netted exhibits to be created, however in Frontier's world it seems that they rather release things in themes, and sadly they have associated the ability to create full mesh exhibits with aviaries, when we all know this is not clearly not the case in real life.

I really hope this was just an oversight and not what you mentioned here, but I'm afraid you're right. Chainlink is pretty much the most used material in a zoo, it's such a weird flex not to include it in the game.
 
I really hope this was just an oversight and not what you mentioned here, but I'm afraid you're right. Chainlink is pretty much the most used material in a zoo, it's such a weird flex not to include it in the game.


An oversight is always possible, since the team are in fact video game devs and not lifelong zoo design industry professionals. However, it is unlikely, based on their extensive research before the game was ever conceived, their previous experience in the genre and their continued interaction with the zoo world up to even now. They are in fact very aware of what this game requires in order to be a realistic simulation, since they have had expert knowledge and advice at every corner.

When Planet Coaster was around, it has been mention by many of the regular players that Frontier had a great deal of interaction with the content building community, a lot of the YouTube players that generate a lot of buzz for the game, had their input regularly taken into consideration by Frontier, by their own account. Fast forward to Planet Zoo, the same can definitely not be said (by their own account and admission) This of course, is not a bad thing, because while those players do make a solid effort in building zoos, most of the time what they are creating is large amusement parks with animals on it, and miss a great number of things that are needed when building zoos. Meaning their recommendations and wishes would take the game in most scenarios further apart from zoo building. In my view, the reason why Frontier is lot more silent about this game, and is not open to suggestions, is because they already have a road-map and the expert advice needed behind them to complete this game (does not mean that they necessarily will in the way some of us want them, since there could have been complications along the way) My point is that when it comes to the zoo genre, Frontier might as well informed and trained as they have ever been for a game.
 
I hope I am wrong but I do have concerns that we might never get appropriate building materials like these for ideological reasons. As I posted in another thread, there seems to be sometimes a degree of naivety from Frontier about the realities of captivity and what zoos actually involve.

Certainly their hostility to the word enclosure makes me think that mesh and bars would be seen as 'cruel cages' rather than a crucial and integral part of how zoos are really built.
 
I hope I am wrong but I do have concerns that we might never get appropriate building materials like these for ideological reasons. As I posted in another thread, there seems to be sometimes a degree of naivety from Frontier about the realities of captivity and what zoos actually involve.

Certainly their hostility to the word enclosure makes me think that mesh and bars would be seen as 'cruel cages' rather than a crucial and integral part of how zoos are really built.

I agree that it could pose an issue, but I don't think it's impossible that they'll compromise on their views to appease the community, like they did with the polar bear space requirements.
 
I hope I am wrong but I do have concerns that we might never get appropriate building materials like these for ideological reasons. As I posted in another thread, there seems to be sometimes a degree of naivety from Frontier about the realities of captivity and what zoos actually involve.

Certainly their hostility to the word enclosure makes me think that mesh and bars would be seen as 'cruel cages' rather than a crucial and integral part of how zoos are really built.


I definitely disagree with you here, it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I see it in a completely different way. This has really nothing to do with ignorance about what materials and components are usually used in zoos, and more about limitations in amount of content that was created for the base game, since the game seemed completely rushed out (understandable since they needed to capitalized on the Planet Coaster momentum) and they have favored DLCs that emphasized on the thematic element of zoo design, instead of going back and adding to the basic elements of it (does not mean that those will not get revisit at a later point)

It really comes down to direction and not lack of understanding. First off, the designers are professional artists, so their perception and understanding of what they see is as detail and attention focus as it gets. Individuals at this professional level (Frontier's designers/devs/artists) do not need to work in a zoo like (NZFanatic) or work for decades designing them like me to understand and see what is needed to create a realistic looking zoo, it is really openly starring at them at every single zoo. Then add the aspect that Frontier has not been shy about researching and partnering up with zoos when it comes to Planet Zoo.

I have mention this before, but the ramifications of it might not be totally understood by everyone, Frontier has sent and continues to send their professional team to the San Diego Zoo, a Mecca of Zoo design in many aspects. Just like Tierpark Hagenbeck is the father of open naturalistic zoo design, the San Diego Zoo can be categorized as the mother of all things MESH. No zoo in the planet has a greater variety of mesh designs, ranging from every single material and style you can imagine. When Zoo Miami needed to come up with a groundbreaking design for the Wing of Asia, steel mesh exhibit (the largest of its kind in the world) whom did they consult, primarily the San Diego Zoo. When the world renown Jurong Bird Park in Singapore need to undertake the largest avian collection relocation in history, whom did they enlist to assist with their massive project, the San Diego Zoo. The same has been done by Frontier, as I know first hand that they have spent quite a significant amount of time studying the walk thru aviaries and mesh designs within that facility. No one spends this amount of time in a project to not include the subject of their research.

This of course does not justify that basic mesh sections in the form of modular building components were not added to the base game, or in any of the subsequent DLCs and updates. However, when you are dealing with one of the most creative communities in Sim games, you have to understand that had they released all of this components, we would have created incredible looking mesh exhibits and aviaries (without birds) for primates/cats/etc, so when the new barrier systems would have been released, it would not have had such a high level of impact. When they do release them (I'm certain they will, just like I was certain about both DLCs that we already got) the anticipation will lead to euphoria by fans, and no one will remember how upset we used to get when our zoos did not look realistic enough. This is my theory and I'm sticking to it, unless Frontier proves me wrong.

PS: When the PK trailer was released, you would have imagined that people would have been super exited about the amazing Dinosaurs, the Prehistoric mammals, the realistic scenery and direction of the game, the fact that it is a piece by piece building game. But stole the show? the little aviary clip shown, not only the birds flying but the ability to have an enclosure that looks like this. If anyone thinks that Frontier did not take notice of that, or simply dismissed it, I do not know what else to tell them. Even if at the end, full walk thru aviaries and free flying birds are not possible, I then fully expect Frontier to release the mesh sections. But that would not be a lack of understanding, simply an overestimation on their part of what their systems could handle, or what our equipment was prepared to deal with. If anything I will say that the only area in this game that seems to have drop the ball, is whoever they had in charge of making sure that the game would run the way it was supposed to. Even this is debatable since, they are many of the opinion that Frontier knew exactly that their game was not quite ready, but need it to release it, that is not my area, but it is never the less, the theory of others.
 
I agree that it could pose an issue, but I don't think it's impossible that they'll compromise on their views to appease the community, like they did with the polar bear space requirements.


I think I already talked about this enough, but I will just add this, because you brought up the Polar Bear space requirements. That is a totally different situation, and there it is very possible to make mistakes for a video game designer. They are not experts or livelong zoo staff members, so if someone in that industry tells them "Hey this is the ideal space requirement for Polar Bears in captivity, it is a hot topic with many zoos, but of course none of us could actually and functionally implement an exhibit of this size" I can totally see that Frontier Dev, thinking "Well this is a computer game, and we are all about giving animals the best possible environment, lets go ahead and give them the ideal space requirement in the game" Obviously when there is a great amount of negative feedback, they did compromise (somewhat), missing basic zoo components are definitely not in the same category, because this is related to the artists visualization of what they are taking in during research etc.

If every single zoo they visited has mesh exhibits of every size and shape you can imagine, then what do you think is going thru that artists mind? They are probably thinking of how to effectively add it to the game, in a way that works hand and hand with their vision of it. Unfortunately, my deductive reasoning here is that they have tied the fully netted exhibits/mesh and so on with flying birds, and until that is decided we will not see one or the other.
 
I hope I am wrong but I do have concerns that we might never get appropriate building materials like these for ideological reasons. As I posted in another thread, there seems to be sometimes a degree of naivety from Frontier about the realities of captivity and what zoos actually involve.
I think more people hope you are wrong on this one. :D :D

I mentioned snavelrijk in Dierenpark Amersfoort in a different thread with a YT video but they have mesh panel for the walkthrough aviary.
The video gives some impression of use of mesh panel and it doesn't look like a negative thing when you look at the habitat. Looks nice.

Some RL zoos don't look that great with chainlink but I also think that they just have old looking panels. I think Frontier can pull this off by giving those panels a more modern look.
Industrial chain link fence might be an "issue" for some people but I think that would work out fine as well.

Quite a few people have asked for more barriers/fences etc., we don't have a huge selection in that dept. - I think something will be added.
 
A lot has been said in this forum about the supposed not so good look of mesh in zoos. First off, there are a variety of materials that we work with, within the zoo planning and design industry to fully to allow visitors maximum visibility of the animals and the exhibit itself. The materials range drastically depending on budget and of course desired use. And no major or modern zoo worth its salt is using any type of industrial chain link for state of the art exhibits. I have worked in many projects, where Nucor steel the biggest of its kind here in the U.S has designed specific mesh and assembly systems for the needs of the zoo, it all comes down to can you afford it or not.

Planet Zoo is a video game so thankfully we do not have to have any limitations on their construction materials designs based on budgetary means, meaning we can and should be getting the high end materials and not outdated and worn down roadside zoo type of chain-link. I'm just making this clarification in case anyone is confused about what mesh is and is not when it comes to zoo design.

Furthermore, from the visual standpoint of playing the game, mesh sections would have a minimal impact on what you see and experience. It is no different than when you build an indoor exhibit and that beautiful lighting that the game is known for, goes away, there is absolutely no difference there. However these materials are needed in order to create realistic zoos, whoever does not like them, simply does not need to use them. If the game adds flying birds, small size primates, or even something like a clouded leopard, this mesh sections would not only be useful but a requirement. Even creating a realistic Jaguar exhibit now, that somehow resembles a real life possibility is a headache.

State of the art mesh exhibits are not only an integral part of zoos but they can be quite stunning and the highlight of your park. Imagine designing a functioning, realistic walk thru lemur exhibit that is not made out of climbable rope, exactly.


Below is the award winning Range of the Jaguar from the Jacksonville zoo, as I have mention before in a similar thread, mesh can be integrated with other materials to enhance the aesthetics or functionality of the exhibit just as in real life. This Jaguar exhibit is a perfect example as the mesh is used primarily to contain the cats, yet Plexiglas is the material of choice for the majority of the visitor areas, there is even an underwater section as it is often the case with Jaguars.
Meshexample01.jpg
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We move on to Zoo Miami, could not find an overview example of the whole exhibit, since an aerial pic would give you a better scope of the scale of this project. This is the largest Asian aviary outside of Asia, it is stunning, and until Amazon and Beyond opened up, it was the crown jewel of this zoo. The price tag was exorbitant yes, Nucor created the specialized steel poles and netting for us, and they can withstand winds of up to 120 miles an hour. It is in fact a beast, yet its modern design combined with ultra thin steel netting gives you a clear view of everything inside before you even walk inside this multi level beauty. This would be a great point of reference for what the material in the game should look like, if Frontier is still in need.

Meshexample03.JPG


Now you talk about mesh, you have to include the San Diego Zoo into the equation, it is simply the undisputed king of all things mesh. The quality and variety of exhibits here that include the materials in question, is just outstanding. But the sake of keeping the thread to the point I will just reference their latest work, African Rocks, the largest zoological expansion in North America, and only if we take into consideration inflation, the second most expansive zoological project in North America after the Bronx's Congo Gorilla Forest. I'm not including the first billion dollar zoo DAK into this conversation, because it would just not be fair for zoos in North America, and would eclipse anything in Europe and the rest of the world, so we will leave them out. But if Planet Zoo wants to go high end, this is their pinnacle, and it would make sense that this is the place the devs of the game have spent most of their research time on.

Meshexample04.jpg
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Another example from the San Diego Zoo, different story, different situation, but it also helps in correcting the wrongful notion of so many in this forum. The San Diego Zoo has an amazing leopard collection most of them were housed in Cat Canyon before it was bulldozed to make way for African Rocks. The leopards had that outdated steel mesh linear bars that dated back to the 70's (the last time they were changed) The zoo built a state of the art Leopard exhibition that includes a thin grade steel variation that allows for maximum visibility of the cats, again Nucor was commissioned to custom make it. If you are standing in front of it, you will not even know is there.

Meshexample06.jpg


Lastly, I wanted to include, what many in the zoo planning and design industry think is a jewel of a bygone era. And it sits right on Frontier's home country. No need to fly as many times as they have to San Diego, the Snowdom aviary at the London Zoo, originally built in 1978, is all someone should look at when the idea of mesh aviaries not being attractive enough starts popping up in their head. It also undergoing renovations last I checked, not sure if they are refurbishing the netting, the last time I visited London was in the 90s and it looked great.
Meshexample08.jpg
 
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