Change (Automatically) Hiring and Firing Vendors

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Okay... I was originally only going to post about a problem with how some Staff is automatically hired, but I've found additional issues that just added to the original problem.
So first I'll explain the initial issue I found there to be in my experience. Not everyone might agree, but this can be discussed.

As everyone knows, whenever you put down a building that needs a Vendor, the game will automatically spawn/hire a Vendor along with it, right.
This is probably done for convenience so that you don't also have to go and hire that Vendor or perhaps forget about it, like "it comes in a set".
At least I can see that be the reasoning. - But then I wondered if it would also remove Vendors along with those buildings. And the answer is no, that doesn't happen.

What's the problem with that? - Well, this causes potential excess staff that you don't need.
I mean, say you have built 5 shops and you remove them later. Then it will leave 5 Vendors wandering around that don't always have much work, at least if your park is already operating efficiently. - Perhaps you've also hired 5 additional ones so they can take shifts, which leaves you with even more. - Though, 5-10 in excess can still be manageable, it's not the end of the world.

But now say that you're building a large section of a park, like I was earlier, and you place and move, and remove, and replace, etc. a whole bunch of buildings that use Vendors. I saw a whole bunch of them spawn while I was building, all while paused as well, and I thought I'd deal with it later when I'd get to the point of organizing the Staff. - I ended up with 12 buildings that use Vendors, but I ended up with 32 Vendors wandering around. - THIRTY-TWO!

Yes, still not the end of the world, but it was a significant hassle to sort out the staff, select them all and fire a bunch, and so on. - I mean, if it was the intention to make it convenient by auto-hiring Staff/Vendors, the fact that they don't also get removed negates that supposed slight convenience with significantly more inconvenience.
Look, it's just a problem that they're immediately hired as soon as you place a building, because if you change your mind and hit Undo, the Vendor is there to stay for some reason.

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Now, my suggestion is not really to also automatically remove a Vendor when you remove a building that uses one. - Though, perhaps when a Vendor is occupying the building you want to remove, it could go along with it, OR, better yet, when a Vendor is assigned to it manually. And even thén there could still be a prompt asking you if you want to remove/fire that Vendor along with it.
At LEAST I would suggest that Vendors that were auto-hired along with placing a building should also be "un-hired" when using Undo, as this doesn't happen.

But my actual/preferred suggestion is that, perhaps it shouldn't spawn a Vendor immediately upon placing a building, especially when paused. - A way to do it better is to let buildings/shops be set to Closed when placed/built by default and only spawn a Vendor when opening it (and make that optional or a prompt as well). - Or, don't let a Vendor spawn along with a building at all and make it so you have to hire and assign them manually the old-school way. - I mean, Mechanics don't spawn along with anything they take care of, so why should Vendors.

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What made it worse? - As I explained, I built this large section of a park and then ended up with a bunch of extra Vendors that I didn't need and had to fire a bunch.
The problem that followed then was that, for some reason, they couldn't navigate themselves out of the park. - I don't know if this is a known issue or if it's because they were too far from the entrance/exit or it's this particular map, but they just kept standing in place and acted like they didn't know what to do, even though there was a clear path all the way there.
The way to solve this was to move them closer to the exit. Not all the way there, but further down their route there, and then they also wouldn't walk but teleport there. - So I had to do this with each individual Vendor I had fired.
Of course, this might be an entirely separate issue or a fluke, but it seems you can certainly end up with it if you get excess Staff that you don't need.

Spoiler: The immediate list of warnings of the fired Vendors being "trapped in the zoo".

Spoiler: Here's a video of a Vendor that couldn't navigate out of the park after being fired.

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My suggestions summed up:

• When placing a building that requires a Vendor, don't automatically spawn/hire a Vendor, at least when the simulation is paused (delay the hire).
  • Or better yet, in my view, let buildings (that can open and close) be built Closed by default and don't auto-hire a Vendor.
    • Then when opening it, either spawn a Vendor inside or prompt the player (or rather add a button in the shop's menu that appears on placement) to do so.
• When you attempt to remove a building with a Vendor occupying it, either remove that Vendor as well or prompt the player whether or not they want to.
  • A better requirement would probably be to only (ask to) remove a Vendor when a specific one is assigned to that building to narrow it down more.
    • Meaning, when there's no Vendor assigned, just let the Vendors exist.
      • OR, this point could be differentiated between whether or not one is actually in the building while it's being deleted. In that, when there is none inside, no Vendor is removed from the park either, but when one is indeed occupying the building at the moment of deletion, they're removed along with it. - The player can confirm this visually.
• At the very least, when placing a building, and it does indeed spawn/hire a Vendor, also remove that Vendor along with the building when using Undo.
  • Because the Undo-action is really incomplete when it doesn't also remove the Vendor along with the building involved in that Undo-action.

Additionally, and this is more of a nitpick, perhaps have hired Vendors arrive from the Entrance or a Staff-building and walk to their workplaces.
It's kinda funny that there's this "walk of shame/sadness" all the way to the exit, but if they are spawned into the world when hired, why have them actually walk out when fired, especially when they can't even always navigate properly. - Just a small thing, but spawning along with buildings is kind of weird as well.

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I know this is kind of a spreadsheet, but I tried to be as concise as possible. - I just think this behavior isn't quite right and it has irked me from the start, over 160 hours ago, and it finally did become more of a problem. - I also didn't exactly see any options to prevent these things from happening, so I'm just suggesting changing the behavior of it.
It would be great if we'd get some options, at least a global one that's something like "(Don't) hire Vendors when placing shops.", be it in the game's options or in the options/properties-panel when in build/place-mode. - But I'd really like to see the entire behavior changed, with Vendors not being hired automatically (unless an option is checked somewhere for those who prefer it) and simply get a prompt when putting down a building or better a button to "Hire Vendor" in a building's menu. - It would be a better way in my view.

Thanks for reading and your consideration.

 

[LindaBroer]

I see your point and would agree with parts of it. Indeed when undoing the placing of a shop, getting rid of that vendor would be ideal. I do however like that vendors are automatically hired. In the beta they were not and in my experience it was a bit of a hassle to get the vendors sorted out. Also in Sandbox mode it is useful to have them all just be there when you place your shops (and decide to keep them). I also wouldn't be a fan of too many push screens with 'are you sure you want to do this'. That would just annoy me while I'm building. I personally like it when my vendors are hired and I tend to not place the actual shops until I'm satisfied with the building I wish to place them in. That's just my way of building/playing though. I like to build the facade first and then place the shops. Even in Franchise. Though there I do tend to place the shops at the beginning of my project without any decoration (money issues), I simply move the shops into the building I meant for them when I do have the finances to decorate things.

So perhaps just a simple toggle (like all the sandbox toggles we have) in the options to either hire a vendor with the shop or not would be the best option in order to cater to different players.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Yes, exactly, it should be optional in the end, like a toggle on the right in the "placement" menu for example, just like anything else that gets options.

I don't see exactly why it would be a thing to get vendors sorted out. I mean, as far as I know they would just go to shops and the like automatically, even if you place them after the fact. - Unless you mean having to look back at what you placed, how many shops and such, to then hire enough later. - I can see that.
But the problem can also be, like in my case, that too many might be hired automatically, and then you have to go back to manage them anyway.

I definitely agree that I wouldn't want endless prompts in my face either. So the "Do you want to also fire/hire this Vendor?" prompt kind of idea was just the initial idea.
But I would say that it should rather be a button on the building's properties-menu. - I'll try to illustrate it...

So here is a freshly-placed Information Centre. - My suggestion would be to use the Staff-block on the first tab of a building's properties, where in this case it shows a Vendor automatically as we're used to, but instead just put a button called "Hire Vendor" there. - Perhaps there could even be a checkbox next to it to "Assign Vendor to Shop", which currently you can only do from a Vendor's menu, so that would give an extra way to do it as well.

Of course, this would only happen if the option to "not automatically hire vendors" was checked somewhere.
I suppose thát option could be in the bottom-right of the inventory-pane alongside other options when having only selected a building for vendors, if not somewhere else.

I think this would be great, as it covers both ways and it's flexible on-the-fly. - One moment you could be mass-placing/hiring shops and vendors as usual, and the next you could nope out with a toggle and a manual way would appear, plus the bonus-option to assign a preferred shop right away.

 

[shirandhak]

That are very good ideas! I would appreciate it very much, if shop vendors would not automatically be hired, but shops where built "closed"! (Because when I add a shop, I tend to move it. place it, move it again, delete it, add it new... and... ooops 5 new vendors hired. lol)

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

That are very good ideas! I would appreciate it very much, if shop vendors would not automatically be hired, but shops where built "closed"! (Because when I add a shop, I tend to move it. place it, move it again, delete it, add it new... and... ooops 5 new vendors hired. lol)

Yes, exactly, that's the problem I have with it as well. - It's a bit silly to expect every player to immediately place things right the first time. It's gonna be moved or removed and placed again, so I feel like it's something of an oversight. - Maybe they figured that "Well, you're gonna need them anyway.", but they can really add up and be with too many at times. - Perhaps this could even be reduced by not making it happen when the game is paused, which people usually do to plan and build anyway, but that might not be entirely possible or logical.