Changes to tundra map temperature

markun

markun
This has been raised in the new pack thread but I am concerned it could be lost amongst all the other comments.

Since the latest update the tundra map’s temperature has changed. This means that snow immediately melts once it stops actively snowing as the temperature rises straight away.

The result of this is that snowy, wintery zoos are impossible to build in Planet Zoo, even using a tundra map.

Please can 1) as a matter of priority the temperature range of the tundra map return to how it was so that snow stays on the ground, even under clear skies.

And 2) ideally can we also have manual temperature control on sandbox maps therefore allowing snowy and winter temperate maps (for example) with snow that stays on the ground once it actually stops snowing.
 

SalamAnders

SalamAnders
Please Frontier do something about this.

I have been working on a zoo since January in the empty sandbox version of the Goodwin Arctic Research Park, where the temperature normally stays below 0, so the map is always covered in snow. I based the whole concept of the park around this snowy aesthetic. You can see the zoo here:
forums.frontier.co.uk

Valpsund Zoo - By SalamAnders

You might already have seen me post a little about this park elsewhere on the forum, but now I will post a bit more focused on it here. Wasn't sure if I wanted to start a thread for this project or not, but started to miss having a place to share my stuff - so here we go: Valpsund Zoo Placed in...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk

But after update 1.9 I got +17 C in November when the weather is cloudy... That is not anything near resembling the weather close to the Arctic where you placed this map.

Now I can only see my zoo as intended if I pause the game after I stop the snow, or If I make it snow constantly which isn't great for taking pictures or making videos.
Basically, this has ruined months of work for me, and if this doesn't get fixed I'm not sure how to keep going with this park without redoing big parts of it.
 

Dodoraptor

D
From what I saw, temperate climate maps also don’t have any snow anymore.
It became notable for me when it didn’t snow for a few hours in a franchise zoo (including sped up portions), and that in sandbox, setting the weather to snow only decreased the temperature to 1 degree Celsius, the minimal temperature for snow, instead of the -2 or -3 the biome had previously when it snowed.
 

Firestar97

Firestar97
This sounds absolutely horrible. This Way I will never be able to build a proper Version of my antarctic Research Center and it's also really bad for all other Tundra Projects. It's ok that Grey Seals don't almost die anymore because it's always getting too hot on temperate Maps but a Tundra Map just needs Snow. I can't put Coolers, Solar Panels and Paths over the whole Map just to prevent the Snow from melting🙄


markun said:
And 2) ideally can we also have manual temperature control on sandbox maps therefore allowing snowy and winter temperate maps (for example) with snow that stays on the ground once it actually stops snowing.
Click to expand...
What would also be nice, would be a Option when creating a new Franchise Zoo to manually adjust the Temperature Range before opening the Zoo. This way it would be possible to research the Temperatures in a Area to make the Game even more realistic
 

XT

XT
Heh. Wonder if they're sneakily putting in commentary on climate change in the game with the changes to the coldest regions. Might want to check and see what the average temps have been the last couple of years for those areas now.
 

markun

markun
XT said:
Heh. Wonder if they're sneakily putting in commentary on climate change in the game with the changes to the coldest regions. Might want to check and see what the average temps have been the last couple of years for those areas now.
Click to expand...
Climate change doesn’t mean snow suddenly disappears though.
 

XT

XT
markun said:
Climate change doesn’t mean snow suddenly disappears though.
Click to expand...
...the games time frame is super fast even on the slowest speed. And climate change is happening fastest in the coldest regions - just ask the folks living in the Canadian arctic regions about that. Or Okjökull glacier, which disappeared in a few years.
 

markun

markun
XT said:
...the games time frame is super fast even on the slowest speed. And climate change is happening fastest in the coldest regions - just ask the folks living in the Canadian arctic regions about that. Or Okjökull glacier, which disappeared in a few years.
Click to expand...
Firstly I ignore the game's time frame. Secondly I live in northern Sweden. I am not there right now but it still snows. And the snow doesn't suddenly disappear the second it stops falling from the sky.
 

DrBurrito

DrBurrito
This is exactly what I was afraid of when I shared my concerns about animal temperature requirements and biome temperature bounds feedback on this thread. I was afraid that the changes would cause more issues than they would fix, like it appears to be the case now. In order to prevent that from happening, I wanted to prepare a detailed feedback thread that would address all the existing issues without creating new ones like removing some of the desired features like 'Tundra' map snow and others.

Sadly my schedule is very busy this year and I wasn't able to complete the document before the changes hit. Now with the new values, it will take even longer as it got more complicated. Hopefully I'll be able to finish it sometime this year, or at least before official support ends.

I didn't want to post an incomplete thread, but if any of the CM's or developers want to see the document as it is, I can share it with them on Google Drive.

Some of the new issues I've noticed after a quick look, but please keep in mind that this review is preliminary:
  • It rains at -3 °C, as well as having wet ground at this temperature on the 'Tundra' biome map.
  • There is snow on the ground at +1 °C on the 'Temperate' biome map.
  • New temperature related welfare issues for the Polar Bear, Dall Sheep, Arctic Wolf, Reindeer, Moose, King Penguin, Red Panda and Giant Panda in their native biomes.
    • Polar Bear, Dall Sheep and Arctic Wolf now have welfare issues on the 'Taiga' biome map, during heatwaves.
      • These species now also have slight temperature related discomfort during heatwaves on the 'Tundra' biome map.
    • Reindeer already had welfare issues on the 'Taiga' biome map during heatwaves, but now they also have welfare issues during regular sunny weather.
    • Moose only used to have welfare issues on the 'Temperate' biome map, but now they also have welfare issues on the 'Taiga' biome map, during heatwaves.
      • Moose now even have slight temperature related discomfort during heatwaves on the 'Tundra' biome map.
    • King Penguin and Reindeer now have welfare issues on the 'Tundra' biome map, during heatwaves.
    • Red and Giant Pandas now have welfare issues on the 'Taiga' biome map, during snowy nights.
      • Before they only had moderate discomfort that didn't lead to serious welfare issues.
  • There might be additional welfare issues concerning shelter or water temperatures in some biomes after the changes made to exterior temperature bounds.
    • A quick glance reveals that unheated interior areas in the 'Tundra' biome map are now -3 °C during snowy weather at night.
  • Temperature issues with artificially generated weather in sandbox mode.
    • Snowy weather at temperatures of 8 °C, 12 °C and 13 °C on the 'Grassland', 'Tropical' and 'Desert' biome maps respectively.
  • Now there is only 1 °C difference between the heatwave temperatures on the 'Tropical' and 'Desert' biome maps.
    • There's also only 1 °C difference between the sunny weather temperatures on these two biome maps.
    • After the changes, the 'Tropical' biome map is hotter than the 'Grassland' map, which should realistically be the other way around, for daytime peak temperatures.
My recommendation for the time being is reverting all the changes made to biome temperature bounds, until my detailed report, or until definite solutions can be found, since the current changes cause more issues than they fix.

New biome map temperature bounds:
1649949518896.png

Old biome map temperature bounds:
1649950654409.png


As these two screens show, the old values were overall more balanced, even if they weren't perfect. The old values can still be improved, but the latest changes appear to be rushed and all over the place. This is why I think reverting the changes and going forward from there is the best option.
 

Flish

F
Honestly I think rather than messing with the biome temperatures, it would have been better to mess with the animal temperatures instead. Some of them are absolutely ridiculous, like how the pronghorn, prairie dog, and bison can't stand cold temperatures, or how the japanese macaque was for some time the most cold tolerant animal in the game, somehow. They seem to have just been picked randomly, so maybe it would be good to go through and make sure the animals can actually withstand the climates of their biomes.
 

Veah

Veah
DrBurrito said:
New biome map temperature bounds:
View attachment 302071
Old biome map temperature bounds:
View attachment 302081

As these two screens show, the old values were overall more balanced, even if they weren't perfect. The old values can still be improved, but the latest changes appear to be rushed and all over the place. This is why I think reverting the changes and going forward from there is the best option.
Click to expand...
Those temperature charts are a great contribution. And I don't really like none of them 😅
 

SalamAnders

SalamAnders
Eltanin Casciani said:
Fixed an issue where temperature bounds were not accurate in specific biomes, resulting in some animals not being able to cope with excessive heat or cold in their native biomes. The majority of animals should now not need heater or cooler support when placed in a zoo of their native biome, barring a few intentional exceptions where species have a noted problem in coping heat or cold (i.e. Moose)
Click to expand...
This is the only part of the update that mentions these changes, right?
 
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