Choice of NPC ships and ranks in HI RES

[Try4Ce]

Hi fellow commanders,

I will make this short: Since I am mainly patrolling various High Intensity Ressource Extraction Sites, I always wondered why there are Dangerous, Deadly or even Elite NPC Pilots that are still flying their Sidewinders, Eagles or Haulers into Battle (namely pirating).
That makes no sense, to be honest.

Wouldn't it be more "realistic" if higher rated NPC Pilots actually do fly more combat efficient Ships like the Vulture, Clipper, Python, Anaconda or ASP (combat fitted)?

Just a suggestion from a loyal and active HI RES Bounty Hunter

 

[Guidebot]

This occurred to me too, but then I thought, well actually it's just fine as it is. A lot of very experienced pilots would have multiple ships, so their true gem might be in the docks or something. Also, many of them would take an idiosyncratic shine to a particular ship. That Deadly Sidewinder? He just loves his ship. Further, many of them might be down on their luck. That Elite Adder? Was flying a Python until last week, when he lost it all in combat/ a card game/ whatever.

So to me it feels ok.

 

[Derath]

Bounty-Hunting earnings were so bad initially they reached Elite without getting past a viper! (based on a true story)

 

[Try4Ce]

This occurred to me too, but then I thought, well actually it's just fine as it is. A lot of very experienced pilots would have multiple ships, so their true gem might be in the docks or something. Also, many of them would take an idiosyncratic shine to a particular ship. That Deadly Sidewinder? He just loves his ship. Further, many of them might be down on their luck. That Elite Adder? Was flying a Python until last week, when he lost it all in combat/ a card game/ whatever.

So to me it feels ok.

Well, considering we "Players" are the actual only ones who can RESPAWN, it shouldn't apply for NPCs (and doesnt). It's not like we are kind of drones or clones like in EvE.
Therefore, to keep the immersion intact, high ranked NPC Ships, especially Pirates, should go for the big hunt in fitting Ships and equipment.

 

[M00ka]

Well, considering we "Players" are the actual only ones who can RESPAWN, it shouldn't apply for NPCs (and doesnt). It's not like we are kind of drones or clones like in EvE.
Therefore, to keep the immersion intact, high ranked NPC Ships, especially Pirates, should go for the big hunt in fitting Ships and equipment.

.
Are you sure of that? I am positive I have killed the same NPC on consecutive sessions over a couple of days.

 

[Try4Ce]

.
Are you sure of that? I am positive I have killed the same NPC on consecutive sessions over a couple of days.

Hehe, I know what you mean... But since every NPC has a name, i gues its just coincidence. In the real world, your not the only one with your real name, too.
Either way, its still very immersion breaking if high ranked NPC's go on into High Intensity RES and start bullying, provoking, scanning or even attacking other high ranking ships which are way stronger, for example "Deadly Sidewinder" attacks "Dangerous Clipper" because of reasons.

Logically, if it was as you said, those NPC's should be found within regular RES and stay back when you approach them in a well kitted Python. This way we face alot of suicide high rank Sideys, Eagles or Haulers in the HI RES which are simply cannon fodder and shot down within seconds. Doesnt make sense at all...

 

[Mephane]

Well, considering we "Players" are the actual only ones who can RESPAWN

Not true. There are escape capsules that save pilots. This applies to NPCs and PCs as well. The "murder" bounty is not for the traditional murder of killing a person, but the attempted murder by ship destruction. When you destroy another player's, it still registers a "murder" bounty even though the player survives and gets a replacement ship.

 

[Try4Ce]

Not true. There are escape capsules that save pilots. This applies to NPCs and PCs as well. The "murder" bounty is not for the traditional murder of killing a person, but the attempted murder by ship destruction. When you destroy another player's, it still registers a "murder" bounty even though the player survives and gets a replacement ship.

Ok, even if its the same for NPCs (didnt see anything stating about that targeted at NPCs tho), the above conclusion makes it still weird. Who, in gods name, takes a fragile ship into a high intensity zone and starts bugging off high ranked big ships, fitted for a rain of death?

Are there really that many "bored of life" or dumb people in the universe of Elite which enjoy getting whacked up all the time? And even provoke to do so? C'mon guys

EDIT: To be fair, I saw some CMDRs with high battle ranks taking scouts into battle. But usually they use them for PvP and silent running, a strategy that has been proven as pretty effective against bigger ships. But those NPCs dont use those strategies and just eat lasers and bullets like there is no tomorrow ^^

 

[Cmdr Raz]

This occurred to me too, but then I thought, well actually it's just fine as it is. A lot of very experienced pilots would have multiple ships, so their true gem might be in the docks or something. Also, many of them would take an idiosyncratic shine to a particular ship. That Deadly Sidewinder? He just loves his ship. Further, many of them might be down on their luck. That Elite Adder? Was flying a Python until last week, when he lost it all in combat/ a card game/ whatever.

So to me it feels ok.

Haha, awesome - I find myself wishing for a mod, that provided that sort of backstory to the NPCs Might end up feeling bit like this, though: https://xkcd.com/873/

 

[Mohrgan]

It's shouldn't be uncommon for a pilot to decide not to risk an expensive ship on something as risky as pirating. An elite ranked pilot may feel that he doesn't need a Python to rob a miner, so he pulls out an Adder. That isn't so far fetched.

 

[Try4Ce]

Uhm yes, would make sense if they dont scan and threaten you in a sidewinder when you fly a Python which is clearly fitted to hail death upon everyone that es you off.
And if you happen to have some cargo on board additionally, they will start firing at you, knowing their weapons will barely scratch the shields.
Plus, if you are an Deadly/Dangerous/Elite Pirate going for some robbin into a High Intensity Ressource Extraction Site with a 15+k bounty on your head, you just MUST know, as experienced as an Elite Pilot is, that your ass is getting kicked and splattered on every single Asteroid when you go in in a Sidewinder / Eagle / Hauler / Adder and ask for hard earned cargo.

Just be honest: If you have a choice of ships in your hanger, amongst of them are a Sidewinder, Eagle, Hauler, Adder, Vulture or Python (all well kitted), what would you rather choose going into an Asteroid Belt, knowing it will be swarming with skilled Bounty Hunters and loads of trigger happy Security Ships?
You probably wont even manage to shoot down a T6'S or ASP's Shields before your ass gets vaporized.

As a Player (CMDR), its more likely to happen, since you know how to go silent running, being stealthy, outmaneuver your Enemy, and you know when your enemy will play Pinball with you in that asteroid belt. But the NPC's ... nah, that way, only cannon fodder, and they dont even give you good amounts of bounty rewards.

But guys, its only my opinion. To me, clearly, the choices of Ships for the corresponding combat ranks, considering they're wanted Pirates looking for trouble, is not logical.

EDIT: What I think is logical, and is actually happening: Wings with smaller ships. A wing of small ships can give a single Python a headache and can actually become very dangerous. Or Wings with one big ship and 2-3 small vessels to support. But going in alone with such a small, fragile ship? Nah...

 

[Guidebot]

Quite apart from coherent background, from a gameplay point of view I'm also glad we have varying skill for each ship. Fighting Sidewinders that are always novice and pythons that are always deadly would get tired quickly. As it is, keeping a wing of dangerous+ sidewinders off your back or reeling in a merely competant Python (for example) brings variety to the combat that for me is the core of the game. I know the fight will be different based not just on the ships, but on their skill ratings too, which is another variable that keeps it interesting and allows more permutations of fights.

When you've as many kills as I (and I assume here I do have more, perhaps wrongly), that's valuable.

 

[Crash1099]

Hi fellow commanders,

I will make this short: Since I am mainly patrolling various High Intensity Ressource Extraction Sites, I always wondered why there are Dangerous, Deadly or even Elite NPC Pilots that are still flying their Sidewinders, Eagles or Haulers into Battle (namely pirating).
That makes no sense, to be honest.

Wouldn't it be more "realistic" if higher rated NPC Pilots actually do fly more combat efficient Ships like the Vulture, Clipper, Python, Anaconda or ASP (combat fitted)?

Just a suggestion from a loyal and active HI RES Bounty Hunter

To many npc getting killed and sent to insurance screen. Wait till they buff the AI more.

 

[Try4Ce]

Quite apart from coherent background, from a gameplay point of view I'm also glad we have varying skill for each ship. Fighting Sidewinders that are always novice and pythons that are always deadly would get tired quickly. As it is, keeping a wing of dangerous+ sidewinders off your back or reeling in a merely competant Python (for example) brings variety to the combat that for me is the core of the game. I know the fight will be different based not just on the ships, but on their skill ratings too, which is another variable that keeps it interesting and allows more permutations of fights.

When you've as many kills as I (and I assume here I do have more, perhaps wrongly), that's valuable.

Point taken, and I partly agree.
Currently I am ranked "Master" with over 3.100 Bounties claimed, but that aside.

I am actually talking about "High Intensity Ressource Extraction Sites". Those are meant to be tough places, considering the higher amount of Ressource to collect, therefore much more profitable and attractive to Pirates and Pirate Groups.
Therefore, the general difficulty in these places should be considerably higher than on Low Intensity or regular ones. A more challanging place for experienced Pilots.

I think it would be better if mainly groups of ships are appearing on screen.

• Mining Vessels should be bigger ships -> APS's, Type 7 or 9 Heavy, Trading Pythons. Usually guarded by a Wing of 2 additional fighters. Currently I even see mining Sidewinders there, or Haulers. That is kind of weird, considering the higher risks (and especially low cargo space).
• Security Forces should be higher than normal. Partroling Wings or single big ships like the Python or Anaconda (Anacondas rarely)
• Pirates should usually show up in Groups. This way the chances are higher for successfull threads, followed by dropped cargo. Groups should mainly consist of 1 big leading Ship (Clipper, Dropship, Python, FDL, rarely Anacondas), followed by small, agile fighting vessels which can support the leader quickly (Eagles, Vultures, ASPs).
• Lone Pirates should be prepared for possible, serious slapping. Logical would be mainly Vultures, FDL etc., Ships that can handle themselves well without being too slow in general movement, big Shields prefered.

Lone Sidewinders, Eagles, ASPs, Haulers etc. are still great for interdiction parties. For open space, quick and dirty strikes. Rookie Pirates trying their luck, failing hard in the end, or maybe get even lucky. Places that aren't marked as "High Intensity" which usually scare rookies away or make them more aware of more danger inside.

 

[Rauminen]

And here I was thinking I would find something about a feature to actually choose your instance when you go in to a RES.


I mean, currently it's already really immersion breaking to hop (log) out / in to get a new set of ships until you see something marginally challenging. We might as well have a menu popping up where you select the "difficulty level" by selecting average rank and ship type when you jump in.


I have quit going to RES actually. I do like immersion, any bits of it I can scrape off I take... but this "mechanic" we have now just breaks it for me completely.


Or just how about having the HI res populated by experienced big ships, normal res by medium / small mix, and low res by the constant sidewinder / eagle / adder pathetic parade that we have now everywhere?

 

[Try4Ce]

And here I was thinking I would find something about a feature to actually choose your instance when you go in to a RES.


I mean, currently it's already really immersion breaking to hop (log) out / in to get a new set of ships until you see something marginally challenging. We might as well have a menu popping up where you select the "difficulty level" by selecting average rank and ship type when you jump in.


I have quit going to RES actually. I do like immersion, any bits of it I can scrape off I take... but this "mechanic" we have now just breaks it for me completely.


Or just how about having the HI res populated by experienced big ships, normal res by medium / small mix, and low res by the constant sidewinder / eagle / adder pathetic parade that we have now everywhere?

That's what I meant by "High Intensity". I am not talking about RES in general And yes, that "jump out jump in" or "log out log in" to change the actual respawn types is quite frustrating and doesn't make sense at all. One time you jump in and ONLY get Sideys, Eagles, Vipers etc., then you log out / jump out and log back in / jump back in and VOILLA, now there are some Dropships, Pythons and Clippers showing up.

The current spawning system is kind of bugged and/or weird. Thats what I meant by "only experienced, bigger vessels" for the "High Intensity" Sites

 

[Guidebot]

Point taken, and I partly agree.
Currently I am ranked "Master" with over 3.100 Bounties claimed, but that aside.

I am actually talking about "High Intensity Ressource Extraction Sites". Those are meant to be tough places, considering the higher amount of Ressource to collect, therefore much more profitable and attractive to Pirates and Pirate Groups.
Therefore, the general difficulty in these places should be considerably higher than on Low Intensity or regular ones. A more challanging place for experienced Pilots.

I think it would be better if mainly groups of ships are appearing on screen.

• Mining Vessels should be bigger ships -> APS's, Type 7 or 9 Heavy, Trading Pythons. Usually guarded by a Wing of 2 additional fighters. Currently I even see mining Sidewinders there, or Haulers. That is kind of weird, considering the higher risks (and especially low cargo space).
• Security Forces should be higher than normal. Partroling Wings or single big ships like the Python or Anaconda (Anacondas rarely)
• Pirates should usually show up in Groups. This way the chances are higher for successfull threads, followed by dropped cargo. Groups should mainly consist of 1 big leading Ship (Clipper, Dropship, Python, FDL, rarely Anacondas), followed by small, agile fighting vessels which can support the leader quickly (Eagles, Vultures, ASPs).
• Lone Pirates should be prepared for possible, serious slapping. Logical would be mainly Vultures, FDL etc., Ships that can handle themselves well without being too slow in general movement, big Shields prefered.

Lone Sidewinders, Eagles, ASPs, Haulers etc. are still great for interdiction parties. For open space, quick and dirty strikes. Rookie Pirates trying their luck, failing hard in the end, or maybe get even lucky. Places that aren't marked as "High Intensity" which usually scare rookies away or make them more aware of more danger inside.

Currently Dangerous, nearly Deadly, with 8.2k bounties claimed and god knows how many other things killed =D

I agree with your points, most of them. Pirates should be meaner.

I also think that there should be fewer police ships. The thing is, police ships almost never die, so after a while there's a murder-swarm of police ships descending on each wing of pirates that spawns. It's comical at times, seeing three police Anacondas with a dozen supporting craft assault a wing of three cobras who just got there.

 

[Try4Ce]

Currently Dangerous, nearly Deadly, with 8.2k bounties claimed and god knows how many other things killed =D

I agree with your points, most of them. Pirates should be meaner.

I also think that there should be fewer police ships. The thing is, police ships almost never die, so after a while there's a murder-swarm of police ships descending on each wing of pirates that spawns. It's comical at times, seeing three police Anacondas with a dozen supporting craft assault a wing of three cobras who just got there.

The reason why Security Ships rarely die while fighting Pirates is - They're better equipped than Pirates. Which doesnt really make sense. If you want to play the safe game, target a pirate, kill warrant scan them, and wait until the cops get their attention or vice versa. When they start the fight, you just chip in and almost every time be assured to win this slapping.

Pirates in HI RES should be way stronger, or the cops less strong. Currently the situation is mainly because the cops are almost everytime in a wing / group, and they almost everytime have one or two Anacondas whereas the Pirates almost never come with an Anaconda anymore ever since the AI rebalancing was introduced. The last NPC Anaconda I encountered was after an interdiction while I was cruising a System marked for expansion (other Powers security forces). But Pirate Anacondas I last saw before 1.3 was applied...

So yeah - Make Pirates appear way more often in organized, well quipped Groups... so the fights in HI RES will be more balanced and actually intense.

And boy, 8k+ bounties? Now thats a number to be proud of