Ships Clipper - Cannon vs Multi-Cannon and Compensating for Hardpoint spread

[curses]

But what is your evidence for this? What does "integrity" show when you have class A equipped and compare with class B in outfitting? Has someone done testing on a fixed target about the number of shots to damage the B power plant vs other power plants?

Your claim is the first time I've ever heard stating the B power plant was armoured.

 

[Fendalton]

But what is your evidence for this? What does "integrity" show when you have class A equipped and compare with class B in outfitting? Has someone done testing on a fixed target about the number of shots to damage the B power plant vs other power plants?

Your claim is the first time I've ever heard stating the B power plant was armoured.

The consensus was that it had to be armoured to justify the additional weight, if it's been tested or not, I cannot remember. It's been said a lot over the last few months though.

 

[curses]

A lot of people said better sensors improve accuracy of gimbals for months and that was flat out false. Gonna need something a bit more real. Showing the comparison of integrity between the two modules would be a good start.

I also disagree that better armoured is a required justification for The B power plant. It's significantly cheaper than the A and gives more power than the C, having more mass is the downside to balance these advantages.

 

[mossfoot]

A lot of people said better sensors improve accuracy of gimbals for months and that was flat out false. Gonna need something a bit more real. Showing the comparison of integrity between the two modules would be a good start.

I also disagree that better armoured is a required justification for The B power plant. It's significantly cheaper than the A and gives more power than the C, having more mass is the downside to balance these advantages.

Yeah but look at the stats of, say, a class 7 PP

7	E	80.00	A	20.000	F	633,199	0.25
7	D	32.00	A	22.500	D	1,899,597	0.70
7	C	40.00	A	25.000	C	5,698,790	0.63
7	B	64.00	A	27.500	B	17,096,371	0.43
7	A	40.00	A	30.000	B	51,289,112	0.75

The weights are on the left hand side - D is lightest
The energy production scales up exactly - 2.5 increase per class
The price scales up exactly - 3 times the credits for each stage.
(the last figure at the end is energy produced per ton (ie the E plant creates .25 energy per ton of the Power Plant (80 x .25 = 20)

Therefore, there is no reason to have the B plant that much heavier unless it had an advantage to offset it. None.

 

[curses]

It's scaled by the rate of income in game. Much easier to get a B than an A so it's worth getting on the way to A, albeit with the manoeuvrability drop.

Edit: By your argument the E power plant is the most armoured because it has the highest mass.

This is, however, beside the point. Where's the evidence that B rated is armoured?

 

[mossfoot]

It's scaled by the rate of income in game. Much easier to get a B than an A so it's worth getting on the way to A, albeit with the manoeuvrability drop.

It's already scaled in terms of cost and power output, so the extra weight makes no sense. Why have the D ultra light then? Because it gives people a reason to choose it over the C/B/A plants that they don't offer. It's also scaled based on income of the game. So if the B is extra heavy, there's got to be something to make it attractive over the C and A.

Edit: By your argument the E power plant is the most armoured because it has the highest mass.

The E might very well be the most armored - but it's also not going to power much compared to other PPs. Power is always at a premium in the game. Maybe it's the Nokia of PPs. Cheap, functional, zero bells and whistles, and impossible to destroy

This is, however, beside the point. Where's the evidence that B rated is armoured?

None as far as I can tell, only what I've been hearing on the forums since I got here. And you're right, some stuff floating is bunk - like the sensors improving gimbaling lock.

However, I think there's every reason to think this is the case for the reasons stated. If the extra weight has no offsetting advantage, then its existence is pointless. Feel free to test it out on a Sidewinder or something, have someone knock your PP with pulse laser and count the hits.

 

[curses]

It's already scaled in terms of cost and power output, so the extra weight makes no sense. Why have the D ultra light then? Because it gives people a reason to choose it over the C/B/A plants that they don't offer. It's also scaled based on income of the game. So if the B is extra heavy, there's got to be something to make it attractive over the C and A.

It's cheap. It gives you a benefit (more power) at a moderate cost. In game you have a choice whether to run a heavy powerplant which powers extra stuff or skimp on power and run a more maneuverable vessel. It's a good balance and allows flexibility in builds.

None as far as I can tell, only what I've been hearing on the forums since I got here. And you're right, some stuff floating is bunk - like the sensors improving gimbaling lock.

And for that falsehood, people demanded evidence, and none was forthcoming. But for months and months this misinformation was spread because people had heard it on the forums. Can you see where I'm going here?

However, I think there's every reason to think this is the case for the reasons stated. If the extra weight has no offsetting advantage, then its existence is pointless. Feel free to test it out on a Sidewinder or something, have someone knock your PP with pulse laser and count the hits.

Aha, the old switch-the-burden-of-proof-to-the-questioning-party-defense. You are the person who is claiming something that is not supported or advertised anywhere (apart from 'people on the forums' which is hardly a good source of accurate information) is true. It is up to you to prove it or stop spreading misinformation.

I detailed in one of my previous posts how to get an indication of whether it's true, compare the integrity between the plants. If it's higher in B than A and C then mass is directly related to integrity, which has been stated by developers as a measure of how hard it is to take out.

I would have already done it if I was not located 7kLy from Sol, a 7 hour flight to the nearest station )-:

 

[GammaZ]

Here is ingame comparison:

Spoiler

Still it is not 100% reliable source of information, because if you read description of sensors and what is written about them in the manual....

Spoiler

 

[curses]

Thanks Gamma. That shows that it warrants more investigation because it is clear that B integrity is higher than A integrity. What 'Integrity' actually is, well your guess is as good as mine but I do remember a dev mentioning it is a measure of how well the modules stand up to punishment or words to that effect. Could be more highly armoured. We need some shots-on-hull testing!

Regarding sensors, the manual doesn't say they improve gimbal and turret effectiveness. But the way it's worded made some people interpret it that way. There is no question about sensors any more, confirmed by devs to not affect anything but range.

 

[GammaZ]

Yes, i know about sensors, just an example of how sometimes ingame info/descriptions can be inaccurate.
Also regarding class 2 cannon and multicannon comparison, if you compare them ingame cannon has lower DPS, but in actual tests cannon seem to have similar or even higher dps, at least against shields.

So we need either dev reply or actual test to confirm whether B modules are armoured or not. And it can probably be tested with something less critical then powerplant to avoid ship destruction.

 

[curses]

I think the point is that power plant is the most crucial component because losing it means instant death. I think testing this should be the most important one to do.

 

[Rudolphus]

Mine current load out I like much is 2*C3 beams, 2*D2 Fragment canons

 

[Pyjamarama]

Hi fellow Commanders,

I'm considering the clipper and weapons placement is a pretty big deal to me.
My question is, how far away your target as to be, to be hit by two fixed laser weapons in the C2 slots ?

The idea behind this question is to equip two fixed beams or rail guns in the C2 slots (long range), and two gimbaled pulse in the C3 for the close up fight.

Fly safe o7

 

[mossfoot]

The fixed points don't converge so if your enemy is smaller than a Clipper they will NOT both hit.

A fixed C2 and C3 on the same wing might, however.

 

[Pyjamarama]

Thank you, that rule out the dual rail guns.
But I could eventually use one wing for the long range beams and the other for the short range pulses.