General / Off-Topic Closing in on Autism

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Here's a really hopeful bit of news.

The team used their approach to recreate the predictive algorithm, this time using data of the 22 metabolites from the original group of 149 children. The algorithm was then applied to the new group of 154 children for testing purposes. When the predictive algorithm was applied to each individual, it correctly predicted autism with 88 percent accuracy.

Although it is a diagnostic test, look at the basic science: it identifies blood chemistry changes common to that group. The actual test battery has a 97% accuracy if 24 metabolites get screened, instead of 22.

Why would the patients have these changes? Because of disordered chemical reactions that make them, or impaired excretion patterns that remove them. We finally have something concrete to work back from, towards the final common pathway.

Hahn obtained data on 24 metabolites related to the two cellular pathways -- the methionine cycle and the transsulfuration pathway.

And now we know what that chemical pathway is likely to be. I'd look at their livers next for abnormalities, as those cycles are located mostly there, and we also know that the gut flora is different in that group.

Looking at the details and finding a common abnormality really matters in any kind of investigation. The more instances found increases the likelihood that there's something really there.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Here's a really hopeful bit of news.



Although it is a diagnostic test, look at the basic science: it identifies blood chemistry changes common to that group. The actual test battery has a 97% accuracy if 24 metabolites get screened, instead of 22.

Why would the patients have these changes? Because of disordered chemical reactions that make them, or impaired excretion patterns that remove them. We finally have something concrete to work back from, towards the final common pathway.



And now we know what that chemical pathway is likely to be. I'd look at their livers next for abnormalities, as those cycles are located mostly there, and we also know that the gut flora is different in that group.

Looking at the details and finding a common abnormality really matters in any kind of investigation. The more instances found increases the likelihood that there's something really there.

Could you give a simplified rundown of your OP, for the less educated here such as myself? Because I don't understand what you're saying.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Is this suggesting that autism could be detected before birth? Because if so that is not good. It would be very, very bad.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Could you give a simplified rundown of your OP, for the less educated here such as myself? Because I don't understand what you're saying.

We found bread crumbs, now to find Hansel and Gretel.

Sounds like good stuff, but time will tell.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

We found bread crumbs, now to find Hansel and Gretel.

Sounds like good stuff, but time will tell.

So, what practical effects could it lead to? Pre-birth diagnosis? New treatment? Cure?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

So, what practical effects could it lead to? Pre-birth diagnosis? New treatment? Cure?

Maybe nothing, but that's the nature or research.
We need to identify and understand the nature of the problem before we can speculate on any of that.
A cure is always the holy grail so to speak, but it would be premature to even consider that possibility at this time.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Maybe nothing, but that's the nature or research.
We need to identify and understand the nature of the problem before we can speculate on any of that.
A cure is always the holy grail so to speak, but it would be premature to even consider that possibility at this time.

I hope it does NOT lead to a cure.

A cure would see the persecution us on the spectrum suffer, skyrocket.

We don't need to "eliminate" autism. We need to educate knuckleheads who get away with ablist behaviour because apparently autism is my fault.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Is this suggesting that autism could be detected before birth? Because if so that is not good. It would be very, very bad.

It is already detectable before birth, with high Rez ultrasound scans of the fetal brain. No comments from me on the ethics that arise therefrom, but it's between the parents and their doctors to work out what to do. At present we can't fix the outcome.

It might be possible to get the same chemical profile from amniocentesis - but I don't know.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I hope it does NOT lead to a cure.

A cure would see the persecution us on the spectrum suffer, skyrocket.

We don't need to "eliminate" autism. We need to educate knuckleheads who get away with ablist behaviour because apparently autism is my fault.

That's a non sequitur.
That doesn't mean the last part isn't true.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The issue I have with all this is that it reinforces the public opinion that the spectrum is "wrong", and that those on it should be ashamed.

It leads to bullying, abuse & worse inflicted upon those on the spectrum.

These scientists may think they're helping, but they're not. They're making life for the existing spectrum worse, as it reinforces the opinion we are "wrong".

As for children aborted due to autism, may their parents be reborn with autism themselves.

Needless to say I have a lot of personal investment here, but I won't apologise. The hate I receive from some is disgusting. That's what needs to change. Public opinion.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Could you give a simplified rundown of your OP, for the less educated here such as myself? Because I don't understand what you're saying.

I'll try.
Suppose you are making bread and butter sandwiches at your cafe. Rival cafe owners want to know the secret, because they don't have your recipe. They get some clues from your rubbish bin: wrappers from the butter, crusts from the bread, etc. Bills from the bakery and the grocers give more clues.

The autism people are making a chemical mixture in their blood, which is unique to them. How is it being made? We can see what byproducts get made, and what chemicals are getting used up. So maybe it's possible to work out what the process is.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

The issue I have with all this is that it reinforces the public opinion that the spectrum is "wrong", and that those on it should be ashamed.

It leads to bullying, abuse & worse inflicted upon those on the spectrum.

These scientists may think they're helping, but they're not. They're making life for the existing spectrum worse, as it reinforces the opinion we are "wrong".

As for children aborted due to autism, may their parents be reborn with autism themselves.

Needless to say I have a lot of personal investment here, but I won't apologise. The hate I receive from some is disgusting. That's what needs to change. Public opinion.

My daughter feels similarly, considers autism to be a subtype of people not an illness.
As for me, I want to understand how it arises, how to detect it, and how to reverse it. There are way too many people that cannot function at all, or suffer greatly. Those who want treatment ought to get the option.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

My daughter feels similarly, considers autism to be a subtype of people not an illness.
As for me, I want to understand how it arises, how to detect it, and how to reverse it. There are way too many people that cannot function at all, or suffer greatly. Those who want treatment ought to get the option.

Maybe...

But it's more important that the public receive education.

Just think for a moment. How might some knuckleheads react when they learn that there's a (hypothetical) cure, but I, a long-time pro-autism-acceptance advocate & bona fide aspie', chooses not to get treatment? And if there were a cure, no, I wouldn't take it. I'm not changing who I am for the convenience of others.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I understand the point you're making Un1k0rn and don't disagree.
It's a strange line to draw for sure, in many ways.
But I don't think any of that should preclude us from seeking a cure if there is one.

 

[amigacooke]

I read the article that was linked to and it suggested that there are benefits to earlier diagnosis.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I read the article that was linked to and it suggested that there are benefits to earlier diagnosis.

There are. It means the autie's classmates can begin being educated from an earlier, more receptive age. They might then have an enjoyable school life.

 

[ArchEmperor]

Stop removing scientific data posts. My post was accurate fact.

The polarization psychology of the state I described is a form of autism. It is related and this science report will show that.

There is a whole bunch of related associated changes in both genes, enzymes and breakdown dysfunction of the bodies that causes all kinds of phenomena: genderization, over-explicitation, forced polarization* and so on. It is psychological dysfunction as symptoms.

* - i.e telling a white person and a black person that they are different just to cause a polarization and thus a conflict: This is a psychological dysfunction and the reason is that the dysfunctional person enjoys this kind of behavior and it is a symptom of the physical changes (DNA/enzymes/mitocondrial function etc) that causes it.

A psychoanalytic diagnosis, psygnosis, i.e. autism, ADD, Aspbergers etc is phenomena not comprehensively understood and by just naming it is trying to declare it defined, when it is not at all. This science report and others like it will eventually explain what and why these psychological and physical phenomena occur in our bodies and brains.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Maybe...
...I'm not changing who I am for the convenience of others.

But it's OK to demand that everybody else should change, for you, because you refuse treatment?

If there's an identified biological basis for the spectrum disorders, it's clear that the people with it are not at fault. However, if they decline a future legitimate treatment( which does not yet exist) then the responsibility certainly lies with the individual.

On the first day of my surgical rotation, we met a fellow with an aneurism. The team wanted to fix it. But he was a Jehovah's Witness, and declined transfusion. So they moved on to the next case, but I stayed back and asked him if he could explain further. He was pleased to, but wanted me to return after my duties were complete. That was fair, so I came back at 6 pm.

The bed was vacant. The aneurism had ruptured, explained the Sister.

It was the best clearest explanation you could ever get.

Consequences follow our actions, and we must act from educated rationality, or perish. This is true for the people who victimize others too, except it it the victim that suffers. But the basic rule never changes.

 

[Manticore]

But it's OK to demand that everybody else should change, for you, because you refuse treatment?

If there's an identified biological basis for the spectrum disorders, it's clear that the people with it are not at fault.

Yes; there is no liability or fault in having a syndrome that others have or don't have. It's just the way it is.

To say that one won't change because of some spurious personal reason is really just denial that change, positive change, is possible if you engage with the process and put a bit of effort in.

To change the state of a syndrome is not asking people to modify everything of their personality (unless, of course, you are diagnosed with schizophrenia or another serious mental and/or cognitive disorder where serious behaviour modification may be required).

Quite frankly to come onto these boards and complain about having "issues and problems" and then turn around and say one is not willing to try and engage with solutions is self-defeatist and, quite frankly, pointless.

 

[Necronaught]

There are. It means the autie's classmates can begin being educated from an earlier, more receptive age. They might then have an enjoyable school life.

Kids are evil little brats. Don't matter how much education they will still mock and make fun of anything considered off the norm.