Cobra Engine Release

Can we get a petition to frontier to release a version of the Cobra engine to the public to see if the community can fine tune the development of elite with things like mods. obviously this will be a "Hot Build" and it wont be able to be used in the main game.The reason to i ask this is because the communities tend to do a better job at improving the game than the developers. examples of this are such as Skyrim, NMS, and player are currently fixing fallout 76, making quick fixes in mere hours. here are the benefits that is see this can bring:

-instance stability
-combat logging fix
-ship interiors
-prototype legs
-atmo planets
-QoL UI improvemnets(color change)
-in game EDDB
-Outfitter tester(Coriolis)
-custom way points
-PVP/ engineer re balance
-simulated economy

and many things more that the community can come out with. this can help frontier to solve many issues and i know that the community would jump into this because they love this game.
 
Can we get a petition to frontier to release a version of the Cobra engine to the public to see if the community can fine tune the development of elite with things like mods. obviously this will be a "Hot Build" and it wont be able to be used in the main game.The reason to i ask this is because the communities tend to do a better job at improving the game than the developers. examples of this are such as Skyrim, NMS, and player are currently fixing fallout 76, making quick fixes in mere hours. here are the benefits that is see this can bring:

-instance stability
-combat logging fix
-ship interiors
-prototype legs
-atmo planets
-QoL UI improvemnets(color change)
-in game EDDB
-Outfitter tester(Coriolis)
-custom way points
-PVP/ engineer re balance
-simulated economy

and many things more that the community can come out with. this can help frontier to solve many issues and i know that the community would jump into this because they love this game.
Frontier has no intention of releasing the core functionality of their game to the public.
And have asked people to not reverse engineer the game
There are a few people that seemingly have reverse engineered the game to make "proof of concept" mods.
But frontier wont ever allow functional mods in the game.
Even HCS voicepacks work outside of the game's core
 
Frontier has no intention of releasing the core functionality of their game to the public.
And have asked people to not reverse engineer the game
There are a few people that seemingly have reverse engineered the game to make "proof of concept" mods.
But frontier wont ever allow functional mods in the game.
Even HCS voicepacks work outside of the game's core

that is really sad. Ironically frontier could benefit from letting people play with the engine. my theory is that they might be hiding something that they dont want people to find out. Like for example Frontier has stated that they cant mess with the color of the HUD but if a person finds a way to make it work in game they would look pretty bad, lazy at best. and dont get me wrong the devs at frontier have talent, is the management that is holding the game back IMO.
 
for just a small loan of 10 million pounds you can buy a limited license for developing the cobra engine declaring all rights to FDev!
 
that is really sad. Ironically frontier could benefit from letting people play with the engine. my theory is that they might be hiding something that they dont want people to find out. Like for example Frontier has stated that they cant mess with the color of the HUD but if a person finds a way to make it work in game they would look pretty bad, lazy at best. and dont get me wrong the devs at frontier have talent, is the management that is holding the game back IMO.

actually frontier is able to update the hud color its just very low on their list in their current development roadmap. you can change the hud color through an XML file in the game, the problem is it changes the color of EVERYTHING when you do. including portraits and radar blips.
 
lol if i had that kind of cash i would hire a team and make a game way better than elite and star scam combined.
Ten million would pay for - including non-salary costs - probably around 125 dev-years. That sounds like a lot, but probably only gives you two years to do the whole thing. Still enough to make a really good game provided you don't do something silly like try to make an open world multiplayer space simulator.

...anyway

Looking at your list - firstly, it's not just "engine" stuff ... they'd need to release the code for the engine, the game, the data, the lot. Which, absolutely no chance... but even if they did?:
-instance stability
The chance of a team of network programming specialists showing up who are able to do a better job on this and choose to volunteer to do so for free is exactly zero. Thinking about the "top 8" big open source games (I couldn't actually get to 10 of sufficient complexity)
... two are singleplayer
... one is turn-based multiplayer
... one is split-screen multiplayer only (network multiplayer has been "coming soon" for most of this decade)
... the others have 4-8 player limits and most of them are 'executive control' games where the network sync can be relatively relaxed

-combat logging fix
-prototype legs
-atmo planets
Different teams of programming specialists needed, but still absolutely zero chance they show up to work for free.

-ship interiors
Texture, modelling and art specialists primarily rather than programmers ... but in my experience they're actually less likely to work for free than the programmers are. (At least, the ones capable of doing work anywhere near the standard of the current ED assets in the quantities required). There's a reason all of the big open source games have very stylised graphics...

-QoL UI improvemnets(color change)
I suspect if this was easy they'd have done it by now.

-in game EDDB
-Outfitter tester(Coriolis)
These took quite a lot of work to implement out-of-game in a web browsing interface designed for very dense data display. The outfitting ones are pretty fiddly even then.

Making one which works in low-res VR but still gets across that density of information, can be reasonably controlled with a joystick rather than a mouse, etc? Much tougher problem.

(With no code access required, people could already be prototyping suggestions to solve that problem with Paint or similar.)

-custom way points
Nice to have, but hardly a high priority. Might actually be the only one on this list practical for volunteers to add in a reasonable timescale, though.

-PVP/ engineer re balance
Given how many wildly different ideas people have for how this might be achieved, I don't see anything productive coming out of this. Anyway, all the ship and engineering data is already known - people can and do suggest updates to this all the time. The difficulty is in working out if it's a good idea, not in changing a couple of numbers in a weapon data table somewhere.

-simulated economy
The issue here is not simulating the economy, but doing so in such a way that it doesn't instantly collapse when players don't "do the right thing" to keep it running. And thinking of ways to simulate the simulation so you can be fairly confident it won't collapse the moment you make the changes live - you only really get one chance...

Can you think of any existing games which simulate a resilient but still interesting economy with 100+ commodities over 50,000+ markets? I can't think of one, but if you know of one I really want to play it!

This is also another case where the community doesn't need any access to the game code to try to develop this.
1) We have lists of all the stations and their economy types and positions
2) We have lists of all the commodities, their prices, imports, exports, and so on.
3) We have pretty good ideas from observation and experiment of a lot of the existing underlying variables too, but that's not a big deal.
...so there's nothing stopping anyone getting started right now setting up economic simulation rules for all of it, building a simulator which has quantities of fake players moving particular goods between stations according to various assumptions about how players will participate in the economy, and then tweaking the rules until it actually works for all sorts of different player behaviour patterns.

Once they've done that they could add a little interface to let people give orders to their personal simulation agent, to see if that makes a difference to the stability when it's actual players rather than idealised ones.

And once they've done that and got it both reasonably stable and interesting ... well, to be honest at that point the sensible thing to do is to rename all the commodities and trading posts and set it on a planet rather than in space (so there's no interference with FDev's copyright), and sell it as a completely independent game (I'd buy it) ... but if they chose not to do that then they'd have something to at least start a conversation with Frontier.
 
Ten million would pay for - including non-salary costs - probably around 125 dev-years. That sounds like a lot, but probably only gives you two years to do the whole thing. Still enough to make a really good game provided you don't do something silly like try to make an open world multiplayer space simulator.

...anyway

Looking at your list - firstly, it's not just "engine" stuff ... they'd need to release the code for the engine, the game, the data, the lot. Which, absolutely no chance... but even if they did?:

i said a better game not bigger, i dont need to hire such a huge team to make a good space sim. using hello game as the lowest denominator any developer with a competent staff and most importantly good management can create an amazing game. but yes im willing to admit that 10 million pounds might not end up being enough. thats when you take out a loan because you already have an incomplete product to show.

The chance of a team of network programming specialists showing up who are able to do a better job on this and choose to volunteer to do so for free is exactly zero. Thinking about the "top 8" big open source games (I couldn't actually get to 10 of sufficient complexity)
... two are singleplayer
... one is turn-based multiplayer
... one is split-screen multiplayer only (network multiplayer has been "coming soon" for most of this decade)
... the others have 4-8 player limits and most of them are 'executive control' games where the network sync can be relatively relaxed

yea and most of those games have a community that modded those features in, what is your point? modders are amazing people and they seem to be more competent and passionate about games than most developers IMO. probably because they don't have to deal with some manager that doesn't know what is doing.and if there where monetary intensives for them i would be even more all up for it. but yea most of the modders did it for free.


Different teams of programming specialists needed, but still absolutely zero chance they show up to work for free.

what teams? im talking about individual or small team of modders, heck i dont even have to ask them to do it. there is even someone who did a space legs minigame in unreal engine. imagine what that person can do if they had access to cobra.

Texture, modelling and art specialists primarily rather than programmers ... but in my experience they're actually less likely to work for free than the programmers are. (At least, the ones capable of doing work anywhere near the standard of the current ED assets in the quantities required). There's a reason all of the big open source games have very stylised graphics...

again. if the engine is free..... people will thinker with it... that is what passionate people do. They. Thinker. With. Stuff.

I suspect if this was easy they'd have done it by now.

UI is the easiest component in video-games, as a matter of fact if you do a video-game programming course is one of the first things they teach you. and it doesn't require bachelors with a PhD, Masters, and Nobel price in computer science. so maybe they just dont want to change it because they dont care or maybe not so many devs work on elite these days(regardless of what they say)

These took quite a lot of work to implement out-of-game in a web browsing interface designed for very dense data display. The outfitting ones are pretty fiddly even then.



Making one which works in low-res VR but still gets across that density of information, can be reasonably controlled with a joystick rather than a mouse, etc? Much tougher problem.

(With no code access required, people could already be prototyping suggestions to solve that problem with Paint or similar.)


but thanks to them elite is a game today because i can guarantee you that without those third party tools elite would have died off long time ago. and yes it took a lot of work to do, but the community did it regardless and for free. Honestly frontier should have payed them for saving their game.


Nice to have, but hardly a high priority. Might actually be the only one on this list practical for volunteers to add in a reasonable timescale, though.

what is a priority to frontier because everyone seems to have a different idea of what frontier priorities. some say that is micro-transactions, other say that is QoL balance, others say space legs and atmos planets. it seems that we have a miscommunication issue here with frontier, which is a very consistent thing.

Given how many wildly different ideas people have for how this might be achieved, I don't see anything productive coming out of this. Anyway, all the ship and engineering data is already known - people can and do suggest updates to this all the time. The difficulty is in working out if it's a good idea, not in changing a couple of numbers in a weapon data table somewhere.

well for once the quickest solution for pvp would be to get rid of frags altogether since those things tend to be unbalanced. and another thing would be to make all engineers unlocked, none of that if you want Paling you have to do Marco stuff, just pay they requirement s and done.

The issue here is not simulating the economy, but doing so in such a way that it doesn't instantly collapse when players don't "do the right thing" to keep it running. And thinking of ways to simulate the simulation so you can be fairly confident it won't collapse the moment you make the changes live - you only really get one chance...

Can you think of any existing games which simulate a resilient but still interesting economy with 100+ commodities over 50,000+ markets? I can't think of one, but if you know of one I really want to play it!

This is also another case where the community doesn't need any access to the game code to try to develop this.
1) We have lists of all the stations and their economy types and positions
2) We have lists of all the commodities, their prices, imports, exports, and so on.
3) We have pretty good ideas from observation and experiment of a lot of the existing underlying variables too, but that's not a big deal.
...so there's nothing stopping anyone getting started right now setting up economic simulation rules for all of it, building a simulator which has quantities of fake players moving particular goods between stations according to various assumptions about how players will participate in the economy, and then tweaking the rules until it actually works for all sorts of different player behaviour patterns.

Once they've done that they could add a little interface to let people give orders to their personal simulation agent, to see if that makes a difference to the stability when it's actual players rather than idealised ones.

And once they've done that and got it both reasonably stable and interesting ... well, to be honest at that point the sensible thing to do is to rename all the commodities and trading posts and set it on a planet rather than in space (so there's no interference with FDev's copyright), and sell it as a completely independent game (I'd buy it) ... but if they chose not to do that then they'd have something to at least start a conversation with Frontier.

yea the whole simulated economy could be a farcry for elite not to mention that the game can be locked down if played smartly by a group of player and i know people would complain until crashing the forums. i personally dont have a problem with this but that is my opinion.
 
lol if i had that kind of cash i would hire a team and make a game way better than elite and star scam combined.

Your on. I have £5.23 (worth about 850 Euros in March 2019) to add to the cause, let me know when you have a kickstrater contrick set up and I will send funds.
 
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