Elite / Frontier Cobra MkIII for me

Hi all, discovered this forum a couple of days ago and simply had to join in. I've downloaded Oolite a couple of days ago and have spent the past couple of evenings grinding away, selling computers around the safer parts of galaxy 1 in order to get myself the upgrades to go bounty hunting. Love it!

Anyway, part of the reason I love it is because in the intervening years between Elite on the C64 and Oolite, I took up 3D modeling. This means there's a possibility that I could insert my own models into the most engrossing game I ever played. I'm not saying it's for certain, but I might get the right converters and give it a go.

In the meantime, I had a couple of hours spare at work today and decided I should make a model of the Cobra MkIII for Lightwave users that visit my site. I was going to do an updated, swoopy version that looked a bit like a Cylon/Star Trek cross, but decided instead to make a plain vanilla Cobra, but detail it with panels, antennae and so forth. Here's a WIP, made the basic shape and started adding panels to the ship. Once that's done I'll start adding all the other bits and bobs it needs.

4581589176_b0b5a22ca0_o.jpg

4580960161_76232a0b6a_o.jpg
 
I might just do that. Most of my models have too high a polygon count for games, some were made for TV effects and cut scenes. Making low poly count stuff isn't that hard if you can do good image maps, but it's likely I'd have to export to a format where someone else would have to texture them for me.
 
Nice model ,do you intent to do any animation with it.

That's something I'll probably do, yes. The stuff I make is usually for animations and pictures, not games. Once I've found out what I need to make a compatible format, I'll churn out some low poly models of my own to replace the low detail ones in the game and that I've downloaded.
 
hi kenny,
i like your paneling, real good job, especially the honeycomb structure makes a big sense to me (also the anthracit color) :cool:, should be more ruled to the panels imho.
i will visit your site soon, could be i have some questions in the near future ;)
 
Hi Potsmoke, got your mail just now and sent a reply.

Actually, the honeycomb effect is a procedural texture, a fractal pattern generated by the software and not an image map. I dont have a lot of control over it, just it's size and which direction i want it to be projected from. I like the honeycomb effect as it suggests both scales or panels on the surface, and also a grid for the energy shields and sensors.
 
OK, finally got a chance to do some more work on this one, now that the holiday season is over and all the people I was covering for are back at work. The panelling is mostly finished, added a simple cockpit interior and started detailing the engine area and parts of the hull. Lots to do, but here's the progress so far...

4647198405_6c8c06367e_o.jpg

4647814154_014d9f8fef_o.jpg

4647814200_fc12a47048_o.jpg
 
That's progressing nicely Kenny. An "A Series" Cobra Mk 3 prototype leaving the factory for it's maiden test flight? :) I always wondered what happened to the Mk2, "problems in it's design" (the only explanation I could find) seem a little vague. :confused:
 
really a nice ship.
Mk2? have seen oolites Mk4 or so, looks like a cylon raider.

kenny, transparency in ffed3d is a little problem, i mean it's solveable but you will need many tries, else i like interior in ships much.
first FFED3D transparency issue, culling is allways CCW, even when dx models are CW (single faced).
to get a proper transparent window, first you will need to make it double (maybe a box like the ones in my LEGO shuttle). second you have to find a way that the transparent parts of your ship become separated in the hierarchy of the models parts, this is the most complicated thing and i still have no proper solution for it, only that you can try to export the transparent part(s) as VRLM mesh and reimport to the opened model in blender, often it works (not allways).
i think the part has to be like it would be a single model, eg

top frame
first objects top frame - all non transparent parts
obj frame
obj frame
.....
second objects top frame - transparent parts
obj frame

only this i think grants the right transparency for the obj in the second level
else you will allways see through all.
hard to workout i know.

also when effect.fx (HLSL)shader is used any transparency is lost, except maybe if you specify, but there are not a lot of people know how to write shader scripts for FFED3D.

anyway, progress of my Pioneer Cobra MkI:



scaleing pic

CobraMKIscale.jpg


wha't do you think, size is ok? (not again :mad:)
cobra mk1 ~28/18/8 m edit: 21/17/4.5
 
Last edited:
To be honest I did not intend this model for FFE3D or Pioneer, I wanted to make something for my website and that I could use for animations. It will end up with way too many polygons to make a good game model.

I dont think I'd use transparency on a game model anyway, you'd never get the lighting and settings to look good enough. I'm going to have way too many problems just converting and importing models to the game anyway, it's not something I've attempted before.

Regarding the ships models, is there any definitive ship size guide? I've found a couple of wiki's but many sizes are missing or contradictory?
 
first if you would be so honest to offer me one or so, i can fix them up for the game(s) ;)

scale is something hard to find out.
best if we look at the original vertex spacing.
one well known size cobra mk3 (elite): l 20m / w 40m / h 9m
another one, cobra mk1 (elite): l 17m / w 21m / h 4.5m or 55/15/70 ft

now models vertex spacing in FFE:
cobra mk1,
x extension, v8 x 31, if we double it (v8 vertex for the left most outer point) 62 ft, not bad (the difference will end up close to 1/0.9 and that's ok, i calculated such a difference already in another way, by comparing the exported model with the given size for a cobra and elite.ru's meter model but just to be shure).
y extension, v4 y 7 + v10 y (-)7 = 14 ft
z extension, v0 z 23 + v4 z (-)19 = 42 ft
42/14/62 * 1.149 (the magic number) = 48/16/71 ft
= 14.5/4.8/21.5 m
(model data, showmesh.txt, jongware)

i use a grid spacing in my 3d programs of 1.149 to reflect frontiers meters, when modelling for ffed3d.
or you can resize the ship by 0.87 to get the metric scale. what i do for Pioneer resize ffed3d's models 8.7 times to get pioneer meters, to keep a unified scale of 1:1 for the game and the cad, larger ships will have the tenth part of it 0.87 times, to make them suitable for modelling and keep the relation. thus to make it easier where to place thrusters and pos. lights.
final size in pioneer is controlled by the script, but in this way you will allways know how big your ships would be in the game, while your'e still working on it.

old elite ship specs:
elite ships.txt

FFED3D ruler:
ETALON 100x10x1m lwo.zip
 
Last edited:
Kenny 10 Bellys,
That version above looks fantastic...dare I say even perfect?
I love that you've stayed close to the hard-edged original design but just given it more detail. Well done! Will you be doing similar make-overs to all of the other ships from Elite?
 
Potsmoke, I dont plan on annoying you with requests to do my models, but I may have to ask for advice now and again when I start to convert them. It's not a process I've ever done before, mostly I just get requests from other people who want to convert my models to a game model themselves. I've always found that a lot easier. :)

I've seen the physical model before, very impressive work. There are a few bits on it I dont like, but overall it's a very nice model. What a size!

Deej, I was planning on doing a few of the more popular ships if I got the time, it would make a nice 'pack' for my website that folks could use for pictures or animations. I wanted to keep the shape pretty close to the originals, just detail them up in a more realistic manner.

That also gives me a bit of an issue. Do I stick the missiles on the outside like the physical model, or do i just make a torpedo tube style detail on the ship to show that there are missiles carried internally? We never saw missiles on the outside of the game models, but that was more a restriction of the game engine than anything else. Any opinions on that folks?
 
man put that misseles where you wan't.
launch tubes, yes i thought of that to, had made a LEGO falcon, and the missiles endet up accidentially in the thick part of the wings section, that gave me the idea. it's possible to hack the game to place the missiles wherever you wan't, only issue they will "fall" (they dont "fall down", in fact they will be replaced by another model, this leads to the same missiles for all types when mounted and changing types(colour); homing,smart,naval,nuclear, when launched, even this can be fixed via a replaced unused original FFE model) allways underneath the bottom when launched, no matter where you place them (i think they fixed it comparing to FE2 that the courier and others can launch missiles, cause it often happened on the PC FE2 version that you can't launch a missile from a imperial courier or trader, they explodet inside the ship (not harmful because you are no target), and the ships get nearly unuseable for bombing missions. but maybe i find a "trick" to get that fixed that i can make them launch straight or lift before launching. else it looks only a bit stupid when you look from the outside while launching a missile (usually you wan't do so).
but it needs some heavy hacks to ffed3d and a lot of time to figure it all out.

ps. you will see missiles on the outside of original FE2 models, at least for cobra mk1, mk3, viper, and many others, but FE2, FFE cracks don't use missiles often (they are almost useless, except for the special nuclear or mycoid which are necessary for the missions), that's why you don't see many screenshots with missiles. sdditionally they use up important cargo space, especially in small ships like the cobra mk1, you will have the few left tonnes for carrying goods instead of missiles.

cobramk1_s1.jpg


P66 cobra mk1 v0 (original nfs4 model), missile positions by the game (FFED3D).
edit: sorry, i forgot, i hacked the missile positions
original FFE missile positions on bottom of cobra:

cobramk1_ffe.jpg


and on top of viper:

viper_ffe.jpg


coolhands viper for ffed3d with all 4 missiles:

coolhandviper01.jpg


today, i have read a review of elites/fe2 ships, where they stated the cobra mk1 is not suiteable for bombing or reconnaissance missions, that's not true. there are not many faster, long ranged ships then the cobra, only armament is weak, but 1mw beam is enough if you play well, and i allways "clean up" the sky after a bombing or photo mission (take no prisoners). the range with a military drive will outsmart anything else, you will rarely be to late. if you fight for the imperials you have only to face the ASP as strongest counterpart, if you fight for the federation the courier is quite dangerous, but even with his 20mw beam he mostly attacks frontal (a very clumsy ship in some way) and the worst thing is when he tries to "kamikaze", but if you know his strategy you can evade, hook on his back, match your speed, bye, bye courier! and best when your'e close and he's trying to turn, showing his belly, you can really "cut" him to pieces (something i allwas missed, to see how a couriers wing part get's cut off).
btw, in the heat of the battle, he will hit a lot of his allied ships. also there is a small "bug" in close to surface fights, ai pilots usually accelerate to much for a fight in < 2000m height, so they "run" often in the ground.

ps. Pioneers Cobra MK1 will get double fire front lasers to make it stronger. i think i will hack that to FFED3D to, what you think, you can have twin cannons also for "foreign" ships, like a TIE fighter. anyway i rarely use back fire lasers, maybe only when i want to have a second for mining purpose. and sorry, i don't understand oolites "gunships" with lasers in all directions, who can control 4 lasers at the same time? no, 1 is enough, i depend on my maneuvres not on the strength of my guns, stronger only shortens the fight that's all. only FFE's fastened up missiles give me sometimes problems (fortunatly use by ai is somewhat randomly, they don't use it allways the same way in the same situation, so you have the possibilty to win maybe next try and even 6 laser mountings won't help against missiles (if it would be possible, it's not).

still, both cobras are the best ships of elite, imo.
 
Last edited:
I will try external and internal missile mounts and see which I prefer. I dont like the idea of missiles dangling off the hull of a spacecraft, this thing is being swept with laser fire after all, and I think internal would be much safer and cleaner. Still, it may look good enough that I overcome my design fears and stick them somewhere where they will look cool.

I dont mind the all-round laser mounts of Elite, I used to use the side positions for mining lasers and the rear for another military or beam laser. It allowed me to blow up asteroids without running into the debris, and to take out missiles and following craft as I ran away. However, 99% of the time you are using forward firing lasers in dog fights, so I too would like to see dual lasers.

I've tried a few ships, and I still end up coming back to the Cobra MkIII. It was designed to be a nice balance between trade and fighting, and you just cant beat that flexibility.
 
Back
Top Bottom