Carrier upkeep was adjusted because it represented an unreasonable amount of gameplay. The patch reverts upkeep to a similar amount of gameplay.
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Fill the void (in the bubble) with tritium tankers to pirate. So rather than just having two lawful ways to refuel, you then have a free, unlawful way instead creating gameplay. Making H3 hard to get means more pressure to be bad, driving choices.
This does presume FD fix being able to use stolen fuel mind.
This does presume FD fix being able to use stolen fuel mind.
1 hour in a double Tritium hotspot now gains me 30 tons of the stuff, (1 ton every 2 minutes on average).
My carrier holds about 18K tons.
18K / 30 is a lot.
My carrier holds about 18K tons.
18K / 30 is a lot.
Indeed and in fact balderdash to boot!
Original upkeep was entirely reasonable if you assessed mining income as "status quo", which is almost certainly what FD did since every person and their dog went out and did it, because screw other careers.
Upkeep got nerfed, mining didn't, creating an imbalance.
Current upkeep is achievable with any career, and mining income was over the top. This brings mining back to parity.
Only thing which needs changing now is the 5b pricetag, which no longer has any bearing on reality in the game, and needs to be dropped to 1-2b.
Upkeep got nerfed, mining didn't, creating an imbalance.
Current upkeep is achievable with any career, and mining income was over the top. This brings mining back to parity.
Only thing which needs changing now is the 5b pricetag, which no longer has any bearing on reality in the game, and needs to be dropped to 1-2b.
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Upkeep or fuelling?
As far as I can see, upkeep for an FC is around 20-30m a week. If you can't make that, you shouldn't own a carrier. I can make that in an hour.
If it is fuelling you're talking about. well, yes, that appears to have become a lot harder if you didn't want to fly to the Bubble to buy it.
As far as I can see, upkeep for an FC is around 20-30m a week. If you can't make that, you shouldn't own a carrier. I can make that in an hour.
If it is fuelling you're talking about. well, yes, that appears to have become a lot harder if you didn't want to fly to the Bubble to buy it.
Mining in a tritium double hotspot yielded similar results, but I had much more success mining in a tritium/LTD overlap hotspot: 70 minutes of mining = 156t tritium and 3 tons of LTD
Sounds like another sore-botty bleat to me - nothing to discuss here 
Agreed.
And frankly I don't mind gathering fuel to be hard, because we should have some restrictions on how fast we will be zig-zagging around the galaxy in our FCs.
Fair enough, you're all right about the actual upkeep. I admit I had fuelling in mind more than anything else, as well as the initial outlay for a new or progressing player.
However -
150m a week upkeep, as it was, is now what... 20-30mil? Roughly 1/6th the original cost.
Before the patch we could mine roughly 200t/h LEGITIMATELY - not using the exploit. 1/6th this amount is ~33 LTD. People are reporting finding much less than this an hour in LTD overlap sites.
If these experiences are to be believed, then the equivalence in the thread title is true - its just a matter of whether or not you consider it unreasonable.
However -
150m a week upkeep, as it was, is now what... 20-30mil? Roughly 1/6th the original cost.
Before the patch we could mine roughly 200t/h LEGITIMATELY - not using the exploit. 1/6th this amount is ~33 LTD. People are reporting finding much less than this an hour in LTD overlap sites.
If these experiences are to be believed, then the equivalence in the thread title is true - its just a matter of whether or not you consider it unreasonable.
I don't consider the idea that a highly valuable commodity, such as LTD's being hard to find as unreasonable. Otherwise, blades of grass in real life would be worth a fortune and any man with a lawnmower could be a billionaire. It doesn't make sense. The harder things are to get, the more money they're worth.
The 20-30m upkeep a week can be made so easily without mining, so I'm not sure why you're stuck on the idea that upkeep needs to be paid for with mining, and because of that, is unreasonable. Last night, without even trying, I picked up 3 cargo runs, 120t each, one jump, that paid 4m each. Took no more than 20mins. They're not even the best priced ones. With a small effort you could pick them up for 7m a pop.
The other thing, I have seen people sharing screenshots of their cargo hold and refineries, they are exclusively mining for LTD's. This is a bit eggs in one basket isn't it? Each to their own, but it's a bit narrow. Log on, only look for LTD's, sell them, go looking again only for LTD's. Pretty soon I imagine that it feels like it is the only thing to do in the game. that is extremely restrictive and self-imposed.
Again, fuelling aside. LTD mining was so lucrative for so long, it absolutely couldn't last. The oft stated claim now, is that there is no way to earn money and that simply isn't true. There are plenty of ways to earn money, just not as much, as quickly. If that cheeses someone off to the point they don't play the game, then I can only guess that they started playing Elite at a time mining was superficially high. Many of us took months to be able to afford one of the medium ships, months more to afford to buy (without trade in) one of the larger ships (Anaconda) and to this day, still don't have enough for an FC.
If the game feels unreasonable to some now, it feels like a return to normality for others. A long, long walk.
The 20-30m upkeep a week can be made so easily without mining, so I'm not sure why you're stuck on the idea that upkeep needs to be paid for with mining, and because of that, is unreasonable. Last night, without even trying, I picked up 3 cargo runs, 120t each, one jump, that paid 4m each. Took no more than 20mins. They're not even the best priced ones. With a small effort you could pick them up for 7m a pop.
The other thing, I have seen people sharing screenshots of their cargo hold and refineries, they are exclusively mining for LTD's. This is a bit eggs in one basket isn't it? Each to their own, but it's a bit narrow. Log on, only look for LTD's, sell them, go looking again only for LTD's. Pretty soon I imagine that it feels like it is the only thing to do in the game. that is extremely restrictive and self-imposed.
Again, fuelling aside. LTD mining was so lucrative for so long, it absolutely couldn't last. The oft stated claim now, is that there is no way to earn money and that simply isn't true. There are plenty of ways to earn money, just not as much, as quickly. If that cheeses someone off to the point they don't play the game, then I can only guess that they started playing Elite at a time mining was superficially high. Many of us took months to be able to afford one of the medium ships, months more to afford to buy (without trade in) one of the larger ships (Anaconda) and to this day, still don't have enough for an FC.
If the game feels unreasonable to some now, it feels like a return to normality for others. A long, long walk.
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Again, whether or not it is unreasonable is a personal question. The fact is that this reduction in earning is similar to the fdev reduction in carrier upkeep. If the net effect is roughly the same, why is one okay and the other not? Additionally the FCs are now far and away out of reach of new players, who may have signed up after the FC release. If FC's are 'for all' then I have a hard time considering this as fair play.
I think your premise is flawed. Your reduction in earnings argument you are making assumes mining is, was and will always be the only means to make credits and pay for FC maintenance. As someone that has never mined an LTD ever and owns a FC I can confidently say that is not the case.
My heart does go out to my fellow FC owners deep in the black including a friend at the new reality that is refueling. May your stockpile of tritium last you longer than needed and see you safely home.
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Well, yes, but the title of your thread calls it unreasonable, your first post says 'discuss'. It won't be much of a conversation if every time someone says 'it isn't unreasonable', you respond with 'unreasonable is a personal question.
Presumably anyone who agrees with the proposal will not be told 'unreasonable is a personal question'.
Not sure I follow this, if the reduction in carrier upkeep was viewed as a good thing how can it be a fact it is similar to the reduction in earnings, which has generated more salt than most anything in a long while, .
Tough. When I purchased Gran Turismo back in the day, I didn't expect to have the best car within an hour of installing the game, I've already explained, progression through the ships is slow. Always was and should remain so. If people thought that they should be able to buy Elite this month and 'complete' it next month, they haven't done much research on the game. It's not got a 40hour campaign mode. When many of us purchased the game it was a slog. We liked it. We stayed. Others will do the same. Some won't.
They are for everyone. Just not instantly. It takes time. If someone doesn't;t have the time to put into it, too bad. Find another game, this isn't there only game available on the market. I know that sounds harsh but Elite is not that sort of game.
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The outcome of overlapping hotspots prior to now is, as I understand it, a problem of exponential stacking. Expecting the nerf to be a flat 1/6th is a bad assumption for that sort of error, when the boost it was giving in, say, a triple overlap is a cubic effect, not a "triple" effect.
To put this into numbers to really illustrate it, let's say that finding an asteroid with LTDs without a hotspot was a 1% chance, and when you're in a hotspot, it's an additional 3%. If that was a multiplicative effect, rather than additive (and I can totally imagine that being the case here), then:
Single Hotspot = N = 1% + 3% = 4%
Double Hotspot = N^2 = 1% + 9% = 10%
Triple Hotspot = N^3 = 1% + 27%(!) = 28%, almost 1/3rd of asteroids having LTDs. That blends with what my experience of mining has been, and was pure insanity.
Instead a triple would now be 3(N), = 1% + 3% + 3% + 3% = 10%, which is dramatically less. Of course, that's still more than 1/6th, and I suspect the actual Hotspot % distribution figures are higher... in a cubic relationship, the higher you go, the worse that drop will be when it becomes additive.
In addition, by the wording of the patch, I suspect the additive nature is less effective, the more hotspots overlap, so the current rates are (likely) even less than a double hotspot would've been.
And this is fine imo... that people were running around with cargoholds full of LTDs after an hour of mining was pure lunacy, when common materials such as bauxite, water, virtually any other <2,000cr/t material are significantly harder to find than LTDs, which just makes absolutely no economic sense for LTDs to be worth anything more than a couple credits/t under those conditions.
Imagine if FDev just said " we thought that actual mining was unreasonable" so after 1 year , we will nerf it.
But not they said they buffed hotspot and reduced overlap they did not say why nor precised the amount (appart for the 2 time more single hotspot) and now everyone is making assumption on what they think or why they are doing this or that.
This way FDev never clearly told us what they want to achieve. So people will forever hesitate on leaving the game or not.
Again we dont know if this was intended , if this patch works as they want , is they have done mistake ect ect. We dont know. that is all.
But not they said they buffed hotspot and reduced overlap they did not say why nor precised the amount (appart for the 2 time more single hotspot) and now everyone is making assumption on what they think or why they are doing this or that.
This way FDev never clearly told us what they want to achieve. So people will forever hesitate on leaving the game or not.
Again we dont know if this was intended , if this patch works as they want , is they have done mistake ect ect. We dont know. that is all.
Out of reach, out of reach? What are you talking about? 30m- 50m credits an hour are still on the table. thats only 120 hrs for 6b for a FC and modules. Now consider this me laddy, Back in 2014/15, 10,000 credits hr was considered ok, you could earn more, but nothing paid "millions of credits an hour" for a long time.
How long at 10,000cr hour to get a 150m cr Anaconda ? , quick maths for you, 15000 hrs, nearly 2 years play 24/7 365.
You dont know you are born,
Pffft. Kids today.
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