Colonization seems to have destroyed the frontier

[sidereal6]

Not Frontier Developments, the game company. I mean "the frontier" of the bubble, in the game.

First off, if you're about to hit the reply button to "put me in my place" because you think I'm "whining" - don't bother. I'm not whining. I promise you, I'll get over this. What I'm doing is describing a change. There's nothing wrong with describing a change - it's a healthy thing to do. And if you cannot distinguish between a description of a change and empty "whining" then please work on that.

A few years ago I picked a home system that was deliberately right on the edge of the bubble. It felt like I was in a backwater. Sometimes I'd venture into the "big city" of the core worlds, but mostly I dealt with the tiny outposts and scattered surface settlements of struggling miners and poor colonists just trying to (I imagine) scratch out a meager living.

The nearest Coriolis was many light years away. I was on the edge of populated space. Also, there were uninhabited systems sprinkled all around me. It really felt like a frontier town. It was like "the Wild West" but in space.

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station. Is that not true? Can anyone provide a counterexample? What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

There's also a layer all the way around the bubble of colonized systems. So okay, you're thinking, "just move further out - just move to the new frontier"

Well, here's the next problem: from what I've seen, almost everyone who does colonization aims for a giant spinning station. So "the frontier" no longer feels like a frontier. It no longer feels like poor people living on the edge of space, scratching a living out of the dirt. It's no longer a place with outposts and scattered settlements. It feels like you're in a big city no matter where you go.

There is (was) benefit in having the Coriolis and orbis stations represent a larger, older, more developed system. It added to emersion to feel a smooth drop off of "civilization" as you got further from Sol. Remember how Robigo felt remote? I think this screenshot is from 3302.




Part of this feeling was explicitly that it was a tiny, lonely outpost at the edge of populated space. I realize that Merope was an orbis, so, there were exceptions. But not it seems to me all of that is gone.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station.

It depends on where you want to define as "the bubble", the beautiful Brown Dwarf system I have been developing is surrounded by equally beautiful, and desireable, Brown Dwarf systems, in which nobody has planted their flag, bar me, of course. Around 100 LY from Sol, because, after all, that area is just so last Milennium...

Is that not true?

No, it isn't true...

Can anyone provide a counterexample?

How many would you like?

What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

Dunno, not an interesting area of space for me.

 

[Xenia_K]

There's also a layer all the way around the bubble of colonized systems. So okay, you're thinking, "just move further out - just move to the new frontier"

well, I invite you to join me and my mate - we are chaining out some 800 Ly from the old rim of the bubble to found a new one - "Explorers Retreat" - far away from PP and alike - you are most welcome, oldtimers and settlers are needed at the new frontier!
(Search for BPCL in Squads or send me a PM with your ingame Cdr-Name)

 

[Pville_Piper]

I see your point, you might want to move to Colonia... But I'm enjoying the new expansion, I have 2 systems under development, trying to add power play to my first system. Thinking about doing a third system, but maybe later. I'm out on the edge on Aisling territory, lots of new systems put here.

 

[Markov Chaney]

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station. Is that not true? Can anyone provide a counterexample? What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

There's no systems with bodies near my Outpost, but there are a couple of non-body systems with a decent amount of slots.

Well, here's the next problem: from what I've seen, almost everyone who does colonization aims for a giant spinning station. So "the frontier" no longer feels like a frontier. It no longer feels like poor people living on the edge of space, scratching a living out of the dirt. It's no longer a place with outposts and scattered settlements. It feels like you're in a big city no matter where you go.

There are a number of threads on here complaining about how everyone has built an Outpost and then got bored and how having all these systems with just an Outpost and no Coriolis is going to be the death of the game. So your conclusion might well be true but the "from what I've seen" part might not be.

But I do get what you mean - because the Trailblazer colonies are driven by humans who make decisions differently to how the procedural model has it, and also because some of the mechanics seem to be actually different, it's not the same as the existing Bubble, and of course there's quite a lot of hand-cranked stuff in the Bubble too.

There is (was) benefit in having the Coriolis and orbis stations represent a larger, older, more developed system. It added to emersion to feel a smooth drop off of "civilization" as you got further from Sol.

That is why buffing CMM twice is the one thing that's properly annoyed me during the Beta. Building stuff in deep space is supposed to be hard. Even the actual space industry back in 2025 on Earth had the saying "space is hard."

I've only had maybe a week of normal play faffing around my nice new base system, but honestly it does feel pretty much like it did before; there's still a gap between two tendrils of my Power's expansion (which is why I picked the system, I'll drag one of those tendrils in my direction eventually). And I've been through a couple of colonised systems and it didn't feel much different to the seeded systems, but by the sound of it I was quite lucky to land at a couple where the economy made some kind of sense.

 

[Zador]

First off, if you're about to hit the reply button to "put me in my place" because you think I'm "whining" - don't bother. I'm not whining. I promise you, I'll get over this. What I'm doing is describing a change. There's nothing wrong with describing a change - it's a healthy thing to do. And if you cannot distinguish between a description of a change and empty "whining" then please work on that.

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station. Is that not true? Can anyone provide a counterexample? What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

Not a great way to get people on your side attacking them in the second paragraph.

There are still many 1000's of uninhabited systems in the bubble which you can see trivially using map filters setting civilisation to none, or colonisation status to unclaimed.

Closest unclaimed non-invalid system I could find to Sol - WISE 2220-3628, just 26LY away from Sol. Admittedly just a dwarf star with three construction slots, but you asked. There are closer uninhabited systems, but those are either invalid or have an active claim on them.

To follow your example, if you can't do basic research before making baseless claims then please work on that.

 

[Danieros]

If you're in a backwater system you'll just get surrounded by other systems with a few thousand of population. For me it always felt weird how static the bubble was - with the easy of space travel and setting up life I always wanted to see some people trying to settle everywhere. We're the ones having to do the heavy lifting as this was never implemented through the BGS.

I think the frontier should now be thought as population density, the vast majority of colonized systems won't ever get developed beyond a few thousand people. And at least so far it seems that even the fully developed ones won't go beyond a few million. The highest population scale which is in the billions seems will remain exclusive to the original bubble.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Everyone can be Coloina now - rejoyce citizen! Rejoyce!

Calming myself for a second, there will always be an 'edge' to the bubble. Its like towns that grow- some sides will have posh houses, other sides will have deserted warehouses and industrial parks. Just as @Danieros points out, the bubble is now dynamic and backwaters can become tomorrows bustling mega systems.

The thing to remember is that the edge of the bubble is bloody huge- there will be a backwater somewhere. A long time ago when I did BGS testing I would look for systems that never saw players, and found many.

 

[aRJay]

Not Frontier Developments, the game company. I mean "the frontier" of the bubble, in the game.

First off, if you're about to hit the reply button to "put me in my place" because you think I'm "whining" - don't bother. I'm not whining. I promise you, I'll get over this. What I'm doing is describing a change. There's nothing wrong with describing a change - it's a healthy thing to do. And if you cannot distinguish between a description of a change and empty "whining" then please work on that.

A few years ago I picked a home system that was deliberately right on the edge of the bubble. It felt like I was in a backwater. Sometimes I'd venture into the "big city" of the core worlds, but mostly I dealt with the tiny outposts and scattered surface settlements of struggling miners and poor colonists just trying to (I imagine) scratch out a meager living.

The nearest Coriolis was many light years away. I was on the edge of populated space. Also, there were uninhabited systems sprinkled all around me. It really felt like a frontier town. It was like "the Wild West" but in space.

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station. Is that not true? Can anyone provide a counterexample? What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

There's also a layer all the way around the bubble of colonized systems. So okay, you're thinking, "just move further out - just move to the new frontier"

Well, here's the next problem: from what I've seen, almost everyone who does colonization aims for a giant spinning station. So "the frontier" no longer feels like a frontier. It no longer feels like poor people living on the edge of space, scratching a living out of the dirt. It's no longer a place with outposts and scattered settlements. It feels like you're in a big city no matter where you go.

There is (was) benefit in having the Coriolis and orbis stations represent a larger, older, more developed system. It added to emersion to feel a smooth drop off of "civilization" as you got further from Sol. Remember how Robigo felt remote? I think this screenshot is from 3302.


View attachment 424989

Part of this feeling was explicitly that it was a tiny, lonely outpost at the edge of populated space. I realize that Merope was an orbis, so, there were exceptions. But not it seems to me all of that is gone.

Not really.

Colonisation has changed the frontier, it is no longer a fixed thing it is moving and expanding all the time now.
The old static borderland of the bubble has been destroyed in the sense that while it is old and static it is no longer the border just as where I live used to be a village out in the country but has now been absorbed by its own and the nearby town/city's expanding borders into being a part of the city getting further inside it as new housing estates are built.

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

well, I invite you to join me and my mate - we are chaining out some 800 Ly from the old rim of the bubble to found a new one - "Explorers Retreat" - far away from PP and alike - you are most welcome, oldtimers and settlers are needed at the new frontier!
(Search for BPCL in Squads or send me a PM with your ingame Cdr-Name)

I totally get the idea of an explorer's retreat, but to me it's the exact opposite of being tied by an umbilical cord to everything you wanted to get away from. All these things will follow you, no matter how far you go under this system.

 

[M_72]

Not Frontier Developments, the game company. I mean "the frontier" of the bubble, in the game.

First off, if you're about to hit the reply button to "put me in my place" because you think I'm "whining" - don't bother. I'm not whining. I promise you, I'll get over this. What I'm doing is describing a change. There's nothing wrong with describing a change - it's a healthy thing to do. And if you cannot distinguish between a description of a change and empty "whining" then please work on that.

A few years ago I picked a home system that was deliberately right on the edge of the bubble. It felt like I was in a backwater. Sometimes I'd venture into the "big city" of the core worlds, but mostly I dealt with the tiny outposts and scattered surface settlements of struggling miners and poor colonists just trying to (I imagine) scratch out a meager living.

The nearest Coriolis was many light years away. I was on the edge of populated space. Also, there were uninhabited systems sprinkled all around me. It really felt like a frontier town. It was like "the Wild West" but in space.

Today, thanks to colonization, every previously-uninhabited system inside the bubble has a space station. Is that not true? Can anyone provide a counterexample? What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

There's also a layer all the way around the bubble of colonized systems. So okay, you're thinking, "just move further out - just move to the new frontier"

Well, here's the next problem: from what I've seen, almost everyone who does colonization aims for a giant spinning station. So "the frontier" no longer feels like a frontier. It no longer feels like poor people living on the edge of space, scratching a living out of the dirt. It's no longer a place with outposts and scattered settlements. It feels like you're in a big city no matter where you go.

There is (was) benefit in having the Coriolis and orbis stations represent a larger, older, more developed system. It added to emersion to feel a smooth drop off of "civilization" as you got further from Sol. Remember how Robigo felt remote? I think this screenshot is from 3302.


View attachment 424989

Part of this feeling was explicitly that it was a tiny, lonely outpost at the edge of populated space. I realize that Merope was an orbis, so, there were exceptions. But not it seems to me all of that is gone.

It was always going to happen unfortunately, and it'll keep expanding until the novelty wears off, which is likely to happen sooner or later since the nature of the feature isn't very creative. You can't create anything interesting and unique that can't also be found next door.

The good news is there are people who saw this happening early on and decided to go create their own micro bubbles elsewhere, those groups that are currently chaining out into the black to Lagoon and Orion are the pioneers and colonists. At least they'll have some nice background scenery to look at when undocking from their copy and pasted Orbis.

So my advice would be to pack your bags and join one of those initiatives and leave the urban sprawl behind. Go enjoy life on the brand new frontiers while they're still being created and haven't expanded into the monstrosity that the bubble has.

Besides, why live in overcrowded soulless city when you can enjoy life in the countryside?

 

[Pville_Piper]

At least they'll have some nice background scenery to look at when undocking from their copy and pasted Orbis.

To me, that's one of the biggest disappointments with Trailblazers. I would love to see some variations in settlements... Oh well!

 

[Moochan]

It destroyed the frontier but it will also destroy every poi in the game. Yes most of the galaxy will be unexplored still, but the most interesting things will have a string of useless stations to them with npcs, players, and all sorts of stuff when you get there. How they didn’t think to put a limit on claims is beyond me.

EDIT: Because the proceeding commenter was confused, I meant a cap on total system claims, not simultaneous. I felt that was obvious but I guess not.

 

[tomalus]

It destroyed the frontier but it will also destroy every poi in the game. Yes most of the galaxy will be unexplored still, but the most interesting things will have a strong of useless stations to them with npcs, players, and all sorts of stuff when you get there. How they didn’t think to put a limit on claims is beyond me.

You can only claim 1 system at a time. There is a limit.

 

[Moochan]

You can only claim 1 system at a time. There is a limit.

Players can finish a station in under an hour in some squadrons chaining out into space. I suspect you know what I meant though.

 

[Joe Cool]

What is currently the nearest uninhabited system to Sol?

SPF-LF 1 @ 11.82ly out, but it's a prison system so maybe considered a bit of a cheat.
So I'd go Teegarden's Star @ 12.43ly out.

Do I win a shiny?

 

[Kamiyoda]

I must now become a Frontier Elite IV: The Quest for Mats

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

It destroyed the frontier but it will also destroy every poi in the game. Yes most of the galaxy will be unexplored still, but the most interesting things will have a string of useless stations to them with npcs, players, and all sorts of stuff when you get there. How they didn’t think to put a limit on claims is beyond me.

EDIT: Because the proceeding commenter was confused, I meant a cap on total system claims, not simultaneous. I felt that was obvious but I guess not.

I understood what you meant and would have hoped for a cap of 1 colonisation per weeky cycle, which would limit the total number to the weeks left in one's lifespan. But whichever way you cut it, the determined will get around limitations with multiple avatars or as many brothers and sisters as needed. No use, the virus has escaped and will spread by any means possible.

 

[sidereal6]

the most interesting things will have a string of useless stations to them with npcs, players, and all sorts of stuff when you get there. How they didn’t think to put a limit on claims is beyond me.

Yeah.

Just off the top of my head, if I was designing this feature for a game, I would center it around the concept of an "investor" as in...

you are just a person - even if you have billions, you're just one guy. You can't afford a capital ship, let along an orbis station, all by yourself. Instead, you have to get people/organizations/banks to invest in your venture. So the way that would work would be: you claim a system, then (through some algorithm) the game would tell you that you can get investment in certain things, but not others.

If there's nothing in the area, the only option should be extraction. Once there's extraction going on, someone could get investment in refining.

Then, the BGS should simulate the movement of people (population growth) and economic activity ...and here's the most important part: it should be possible for a colony to fail! If nobody is buying and selling ore at your "extraction" outpost, the population should dwindle and eventually it should just be abandoned.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

Prompted by this thread, I decided to take a trip in my Mandalay to one of the fringes of the bubble, towards the LBN 623 nebula. Once I reached a colonised system there, I took a half dozen data courier missions to give me a sampling of the local stations. All of them were Outposts.

Felt pretty outskirts-y to me. Not saying that there aren't a bunch of Coriolis stations on the fringes that wouldn't be there if not for colonisation, but given the non-trivial amount of hauling needed to build a T3 right off the bat, and the increased distances one has to haul goods as colonised systems get further from the centre of the bubble, I suspect that such big stations are more likely to b the exception rather than the rule.