Combat Flight Sim - recommendations Please

[Fishy]

Haven't picked up Argo yet no, but it's on the wishlist, believe me. I'm having issues with Eagle Dynamics right now with their change of policies, updates, etc. Like buying keys from Steam would have the stuff added automatically to the Steam client and grant you a key for the standalone, but now the ED/Steam purchases are completely split. They're also starting to remove Starforce from modules that had it, but still insist on replacing it with their own brand of DRM (that seems less worse at least). And regarding updates, there's the debacle that is Caucasus being 1.x only and Nevada being 2.x only, forcing you to maintain two clients if you want to switch map... So my purchases with them are on hold until things are a bit more settled.

In addition to the UN campaign for the Huey (good but you have to fight bugs in the mission scripting as an update mixed-up sea-level and radar altitude for waypoints, leading to "interesting" flight patterns by your leader), a great free one is 'Bay of Hogs'. Gets you to fly hands-on without bothering with other stuff (gunners are scripted to open doors and shoot if/when you maintain the required flight pattern for example) in high-intensity missions.

 

[Theodrid]

Thanks for the DCS nudge in here guys, been holding off for ages, (not sure why), gave it a go, loved it, thanks to all that gave it a thumbs up!

 

[Fishy]

Have fun. Don't feel forced to throw money too quick either: if you enjoy ground pounding, the free Su-25T has plenty to keep you busy for a while. Haven't played it but I saw this free campaign being recommended a few times (it's a port as it was originally made for a paid module):

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1802155/

And no matter what, it can't be worse than the default 'Georgian Oil War' campaign that throws you aimlessly into the first mission against particularly insane SAM levels...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Have fun. Don't feel forced to throw money too quick either: if you enjoy ground pounding, the free Su-25T has plenty to keep you busy for a while. Haven't played it but I saw this free campaign being recommended a few times (it's a port as it was originally made for a paid module):

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1802155/

And no matter what, it can't be worse than the default 'Georgian Oil War' campaign that throws you aimlessly into the first mission against particularly insane SAM levels...

16! Sixteen ATG missiles. SEAD capability - very long range. This plane leaves basically nothing left to wish for. Just hard to use with targetting, imo. Not SEAD, though. Just point to RWR blip and fire away.

 

[Fishy]

16! Sixteen ATG missiles. SEAD capability - very long range. This plane leaves basically nothing left to wish for. Just hard to use with targetting, imo. Not SEAD, though. Just point to RWR blip and fire away.

Yup, it's a great weapons platform, and between cannon, unguided bombs, rockets, fire-and-forget missiles, laser-guided missiles and AA missiles, there's a wide range of options to design missions around. The trouble with the Georgian Oil War campaign, at least the first mission, is that there are no dedicated SEAD flight groups. So if you want to stand a chance to get in Vikhr range of the front line without the cockpit alerts lighting up like a Christmas tree (for £0, mind), you're pushed into doing it yourself. But of course, if you only do SEAD, then you're not softening up the front line ground forces you're expected to. So you're pushed into a gamey setup with both SEAD long-range and Vikhr equipped to cover both roles. And even then, it's tough getting the Vikhr on target fast enough, I generally find myself too close when I finally get to fire the missile, so by the time it gets near the target I'm already half-deaf from the sound alerts! [knocked out]

A nice side-benefit about learning the Vikhr with the Su-25T is that if you get into the Ka-50 later, it's fitted with the Shkval and Vikhr too, so that's one system you're already familiar with.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yup, it's a great weapons platform, and between cannon, unguided bombs, rockets, fire-and-forget missiles, laser-guided missiles and AA missiles, there's a wide range of options to design missions around. The trouble with the Georgian Oil War campaign, at least the first mission, is that there are no dedicated SEAD flight groups. So if you want to stand a chance to get in Vikhr range of the front line without the cockpit alerts lighting up like a Christmas tree (for £0, mind), you're pushed into doing it yourself. But of course, if you only do SEAD, then you're not softening up the front line ground forces you're expected to. So you're pushed into a gamey setup with both SEAD long-range and Vikhr equipped to cover both roles. And even then, it's tough getting the Vikhr on target fast enough, I generally find myself too close when I finally get to fire the missile, so by the time it gets near the target I'm already half-deaf from the sound alerts! [knocked out]

A nice side-benefit about learning the Vikhr with the Su-25T is that if you get into the Ka-50 later, it's fitted with the Shkval and Vikhr too, so that's one system you're already familiar with.

I wanted a heli anyway and it was quite relaxing preparing behind a hill and popping up for attack or on a slow hovering approach. But you better beware - that Ka 50 doesn't light up like X-Mas tree until it's too late.

 

[BurnyBurns]

DCS... They'd have a much better proposition, if their clusterduck of having about three separate client versions (1.5 release, 1.5 open beta, 2.x pre-release) and modules distributed through two separate stores with partial compatiblity and incompatibility was finally resolved. Their updated free Caucasus map looks astonishing and the time and effort going into it is obvious, but currently it's really not attractive for me to get into any of their versions.

The "looming" release of 2.5 makes the currently available 1.5 client look unattractive, as the technical advancement between the two is very obvious. Yet, the available beta versions of 2.x require a map purchase of around 50€ before even getting into it. And then, neither map combines well with the free planes to form a combat theatre. The unarmed TP-51D is... well, unarmed. It fits into the modern day Nevada map in a "privat pilot flying oldtimer" capacity. The SU-25 doesn't fit into Nevada in a combat capacity at all, unless some mission simulates a fictional conflict or you maybe treat it as a mere shooting range vehicle and map. The SU-25 does not fit into the WW2 normandy map either, nor can the TP-51D be flown there for combat missions. In the end, to have ny vehcile fitting into these maps in terms of combat scenarios, you're looking at another separate module purchase. That's 50€ for the map and again 50€ +/- for the vehcle. To be played in their beta client. Edit: Vice versa, buying WW2 plane modules while playing on the 1.5 released client doesn't offer a sensible combat scneario, as the only availbalbe WW2 map - Normandy - is only available for the 2.x client. Which for some reason requires the additional purchase of a WW2 asset pack, rather than just coming with that asset pack included, seeing as it's a requirement to use the map anyway.

The only free combat scenario that makes any sense, is the SU-25 on the caucasus map. Which is only available in 1.5 so far, but seeing as the looming 2.x release visually and technically outclasses the older 1.5 version by a considerable margin, while promising to offer the actual free content, I'm not about to install their 1.5 client. Or purchase any module they offer until their technical baseline is a reelased 2.5 client.

Also:

...with their change of policies, updates, etc. Like buying keys from Steam would have the stuff added automatically to the Steam client and grant you a key for the standalone, but now the ED/Steam purchases are completely split.

What's that? I was recently told that buying a Steam module, I could use it with the client loaded from their site? Is that not possible anymore? E.g. buying Flaming Cliffs 3 on Steam, seeing as that generally said to be a good entrypoint, could it be used in an eventual 2.5 release client downloaded from their site or would it only work after they release 2.5 on Steam.

 

[Fishy]

What's that? I was recently told that buying a Steam module, I could use it with the client loaded from their site? Is that not possible anymore?

It's... complicated... The gist of it is that ED are utterly paranoid about piracy and have a disjointed set of conflicting copy protection schemes, leading to the following...

It used to be that purchasing on the ED store, you'd only get a key for the client downloaded from the ED website, you couldn't use it to add the module to the Steam client. Modules purchased on Steam however, would add the module automatically to the Steam client and also come with a key that you could use to add the module to the ED standalone client.

This has changed with the Mirage 2000 release on Steam if I remember correctly. This is the first module that came with a different DRM system (they used Starforce until then), and for the Mirage and any subsequently released module (typically, the Nevada map), purchasing them on Steam will no longer grant you a key for the standalone client. All the modules released on Steam before the Mirage 2000 however, still grant you the standalone key.

That's... for now... But they are slowly retrofitting old modules to no longer use Starforce either. When that happens, it's not clear whether the Steam versions of the old modules will still be usable on both platforms or not.

 

[BurnyBurns]

It's... complicated... The gist of it is that ED are utterly paranoid about piracy and have a disjointed set of conflicting copy protection schemes, leading to the following...

It used to be that purchasing on the ED store, you'd only get a key for the client downloaded from the ED website, you couldn't use it to add the module to the Steam client. Modules purchased on Steam however, would add the module automatically to the Steam client and also come with a key that you could use to add the module to the ED standalone client.

This has changed with the Mirage 2000 release on Steam if I remember correctly. This is the first module that came with a different DRM system (they used Starforce until then), and for the Mirage and any subsequently released module (typically, the Nevada map), purchasing them on Steam will no longer grant you a key for the standalone client. All the modules released on Steam before the Mirage 2000 however, still grant you the standalone key.

That's... for now... But they are slowly retrofitting old modules to no longer use Starforce either. When that happens, it's not clear whether the Steam versions of the old modules will still be usable on both platforms or not.

Thanks for the explanation. If it looks like a clusterduck, smells like a clusterduck and tastes like a clusterduck, it's probably a clusterduck.

Summary: Only way to be save in terms of compatible purchases, is sticking to only buying stuff through one storefront? And that leaves steam out in the rain in terms of 2.x releases currently, or am I mistaken here? Still, I won't bother until they've officially released 2.5 and fixed their release clusterduck.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

It's... complicated... The gist of it is that ED are utterly paranoid about piracy and have a disjointed set of conflicting copy protection schemes, leading to the following...

It used to be that purchasing on the ED store, you'd only get a key for the client downloaded from the ED website, you couldn't use it to add the module to the Steam client. Modules purchased on Steam however, would add the module automatically to the Steam client and also come with a key that you could use to add the module to the ED standalone client.

This has changed with the Mirage 2000 release on Steam if I remember correctly. This is the first module that came with a different DRM system (they used Starforce until then), and for the Mirage and any subsequently released module (typically, the Nevada map), purchasing them on Steam will no longer grant you a key for the standalone client. All the modules released on Steam before the Mirage 2000 however, still grant you the standalone key.

That's... for now... But they are slowly retrofitting old modules to no longer use Starforce either. When that happens, it's not clear whether the Steam versions of the old modules will still be usable on both platforms or not.

The Harrier comes now without that crap. No starforce. It only requires online connection every so often to confirm it's legal purchase. I learned about DCS on Steam, installed over Steam, but before I bought anything I switched completely over to their store. Can't have conflicting stuff or incompabilities with this stuff.

 

[Fishy]

Thanks for the explanation. If it looks like a clusterduck, smells like a clusterduck and tastes like a clusterduck, it's probably a clusterduck.

Summary: Only way to be save in terms of compatible purchases, is sticking to only buying stuff through one storefront? And that leaves steam out in the rain in terms of 2.x releases currently, or am I mistaken here? Still, I won't bother until they've officially released 2.5 and fixed their release clusterduck.

Yup, for the foreseeable future, you want to get all your stuff on a single store front. I haven't made up my mind yet. I'll probably stick to Steam as I enjoy the one-stop-shop and auto-updates (same as Elite, no real benefit, just a tiny little convenience), but yeah, ED tend to let the Steam client stagnate a bit at times, and modules don't appear there as fast either.